Is a PPL a benefit with BA? Glasgow Flying Club?
 

Hey there,
I am currently applying to BA for their training scheme for the second time - I only got to the Aptitiudes the last time. However, this time I am determined I am going to get through this stage and progress onto the final board. I was just wondering if anyone knew whether it would be beneficial to me to either have a PPL or currently training for a PPL. I recently spoke to two Britannia pilots and they both said that it would definately be bonus points. However as you all know it is very expensive. I was looking into Glasgow Flying Club and they said that by the end of it, it could cost me between 8000 and 10000 pounds. I realise that I could take out a loan, but I do not want to make any rash decisions about it, if it is not going to benefit me. Also has anyone flown at Glasgow Flying Club before? if so can they tell me what it is like? Any information would be useful.
Regards
Rossco

Bloody hell mate what are you planning on doing your PPL in??? a 747??? i did mine at Lancs Aero Club,a flying school in manchester and it cost me at most £6000 but i did buy my own headset and full library of trevor thoms, crp-5 etc.... I would consider giving edinburgh a miss if they're charging you £8k+

I think that 8 to 10k is a bit steep.I would budget more toward the 4 to 6k mark.Forget about going to glasgow come to cumbernauld instead. :).And yes i do work there.I've heard mixed reports about glasgow,nothing bad about the instructors thay have some really good ones there but it is expensive and i think a bit eliteist(is that the right spelling).good luck and yes i do need the hours... :)

If you are able to travel you will find Prestwick Flying Club considerably cheaper, with less delays due to other traffic. If you want more details e-mail me.

Certainly look in to Glasgow. But as a student at Glasgow University, I've been hiring from Cumbernauld Flying School for two years and can only recommend them.

They use Katanas (which are more complex than their C152/PA38 equivalents due to a variable-pitch prop) and their facilities, instructors and general atmosphere can only be described as more welcoming than Glasgow. Besides, you're not wasting money and time waiting at the holding point behind a 737 waiting for clearance. I know people will whine that you don't get the same experience with ATC at Cumbernauld (air-ground radio) but the argument is that at Cumbernauld you have the choice. There is nothing stopping you (if Glasgow let you) from flying a local over the city and across the approach path towards the west coast (Oban and Prestwick both within easy reach).

My advice is that you simply must train at Cumbernauld. Better planes, newer planes, more available planes/instructors, cheaper, friendlier. Not only are the staff at the school welcoming, but the staff working at the airport (the name Stuart springs to mind) are always willing to help you out if you're in need.

Email me if you want. You're welcome to come up with me next time I'm flying. :cool:

Did my PPL in 6 weeks, in the UK (wales), from a tarmach R/W, and cost me £3500 inclusive of headset, books etc. ;)

I started my PPL at the Glasgow Flying Club. As far as I am concerned, the place is riddled with dodgy people and VERY STEEP prices!!! As mentioned above go visit the Prestwick Flying Club 30mins down the A77. Many ex GFC members there, who "saw the light!!" You will be taught by and mix with TRUE professionals. It seemed to me that the PFC members enjoyed flying, unlike the GFC who were more intent on stitching each other up!!! :rolleyes:
By all means visit Cumbernauld, Edinburgh, and the Prestwick Flight Centre (North Side.) However I stand by my recommendation. Before anyone says it ...... NO I DONT WORK THERE!! :)
Eff Oh. :D

Well, it all depends on the viewpoint - I have heard two opinions at work (world's favourite)Firstly, there is the school of thought that says if a chap has got the drive/intellect/perseverance to get the PPL then he is a good bet. However, the flip side of this is that Most majors insist that psychometric tests etc, and close monitoring of both recruitment and ongoing training standards at the schools lead to a lower chop rate. IMHO it appears that most of the big players will take pilots whom they did not train from Ab-initio as long as they join as Direct Entry Pilots, and have hours on type. Otherwise, my personal opinion is that you are, to a certain extent better off without, if you are aiming high. Conversely, I have seen adverts in Pilot mag from Cabair/KLM etc., offering part sponsorship as long as you have PPL/IMC/Night and 95 hours P1......Its all a gamble. But if you wanna fly - do it.....why wait for an offer that (No offence) may never come to fruition?

Tailwinds :cool:

cant reccomend Prestwick Flying Club highly enough, friendly people, nice aircraft and not too terribly expensive.

Would give you the phone number but I aint got it to hand - they're under the book as scotia safari i think

have fun pal

Tunny

(by the way - ditch the uni and come to spain, much more fun!!!)

Just to reiterate what was said earlier...

Forget glasgow flying club, there well up there own @rse, and as far as I know they have to fly a good bit out of Glasgow to get any training done as well as competeing for runway with all the commercial traffic.

Cumbernauld is a good place, quiet we gaff, not bad, I had a trial there and I couldn`t fault it.

Prestwick is probably your best bet, it seems to be a good laugh down there, and as far as I can make out the training seems pretty good. There is also a small amount of commercial traffic there as well which is good experience. Besides Prestwick is turning into the loony bin for all the Glasgow wannabes which can only be good.

Best to make your own mind up, visit them all!!

Good luck.

Maybe the people at glasgow flying club should read this and adjust there attitudes.There are a lot of good people down at glasgow and unfortunatly it's the attitudes of the few who ruin it for everybody.Then again i would say there is no harm in a bit of backstabbing!!!What can i say leave the politcal stuff to the bowling clubs and concentrate on the FLYING!!!

Alrighty,

Have to say that i had a trial lesson at GFC and thought it was great. since then joined the club and have had a few lessons towards my PPL. The complaints I have are not about the pilots - they all seem to be really decent. Well, my instructor was anyway. I'm more annoyed at the lack of organisation. When I joined I was told I could work opperations to get free flight time - useful when you're a student. However it's ben over 3 months and I still don't have a key to get into the club, because they are supposed to be fitting a new entry system. That was announced over a month ago... so what is taking so damn long? I've been accepted for training so I'm ditching the lessons for now - primarily due to the expense of the while thing, but also because the hassle is starting to over-ride the benefits. Having said that the experience was most uselful for the interview. The first question I was asked was about my interest for flying and why there was nothing in the application form. My answer was that I'd done it all since applying and he seemed to be happy with that. Don't think you need to go for the full PPL though. Besides, they are going to train you up from scratch anyway.

Bunty

Perhaps someone should ""e-mail this page to a friend"to the GFC! Just to let them know how we all feel about them! :mad:
Eff Oh.

Perhaps they should also mail it to Fairoaks and Redhill too, as they seem to be just as bad!

Tailwinds

:mad:

I'd recommend either prestwick club..I've flown with both and they are both excellent...you may even bump into a ppruner or two on your travels :)

Rossco,

At my FB at BA a couple of years ago the pilot asked "do you have any flying experience?"

"No"

"No, not even a trial lesson???"

"no, I didn't know that was possible!"

No need to say that at that point when he glanced across at the lady from Human Resources it was going to be a "we regret" through the post.

Go start flying but do not break tha bank by trying to get too much flying done.

On the downside, if had in excess of say 20 hours then they could start ascking you some tricky technical questions - I'd rather talk about my hobbies thank you very much.

PFO

What ever you do not go to Glasgow, its reputation is worse than S***E Go to Prestwick, that is where i am learning to fly and cannot recommend it more highly. All the instructors are commercial pilots and love flying and seeing people gain their ppl's and they will train you for your ppl as if you are a cadet pilot for their airline, and they will give you all their knowledge to help you acheinve your goal of either commercial or private flying Its a great club and everyone is friendly, not like Glasgow!!!! The Airport itself is good, very little traffic except Ryanair who will always use the opposite runway to all other traffic, the weather is usually good though you will love the crosswind when you come to do circuits. Finaly its much cheaper than Glasgow which is a big help!!!!!!!!

hey you lot
never have i read such a bunch of pish written about any subject in my life before!
lets get our facts right from the start.it was probably I who told rossco-18uk the cost of his flying, unfortunately he has as you will have guessed he got his facts wrong.what I will have told him is an approximation of the cost as not every one who walks through our doors is going to get a ppl(a) in 45hours, therefore it is better to give a more realistic estimate of the costs.
I it is my pleasure to say, carry out the ops role virtually every weekend, so it is I who answers the phone etc, but let me make it clear to you all I am a student member who feels very strongly that small flying clubs and GA need active support from all involved.
If you want to make your own mind up about gfc and the people who are the ordinary members then why not take the opportunity and come along any weekend and check us out
or come to the Scottish aero club annual quiz at the clansman club on the 22/9/01 at 1300 local. see you all there, ta ta!

Bigman,

Is that you Andy? When did you join the club? If it was after me can you explain to me why you managed to get a key where I did not? Also, if it is so great there wcould you also tell me why it is that if you turn up for a lesson on a busy weekend it can take up to an hour before your flight actualy takes place? Smooth running? I hardly think so. The expense is greater at GFC than prestwick as well - the landing fees when it comes to doing circuits are just silly. Quoting a high price for PPL like you said you may have done is not a good way of getting busines for the club - or attracting interest to aviation in general.

Ranting and raving about how good something is is fine, but you can't ignore the down sides. If you are there virtually every weekend then you should know that smooth running is not one of the club's fortes. Having said that I will acknowledge the fact (as I did in my last post) that when in the air the instructors are good, and every one at the club seems nice enough.

There, I'm done venting.

Bunty :p

rossco,

Flying isn't everything in the BA final board. If you go all out for a PPL at the expense of other activities or your studies then it could disadvantage you.

I'm not sure what stage of studying you are at, but there are various options which will get you flying experience for very little outlay and that have other benefits. Have you looked at the air cadets or University Air Squadron. Most universities also run gliding clubs which is a good way to learn basic principles. All these organisations have active social sides and other, non-flying related activities which will stand you in good stead. As for going to the bank and taking out a loan to get your PPL, I think it shows a lot more enthusiasm if you get yourself a part-time job to finance the flying. BA and most major companies prize initiative and, even if you only manage to get a few hours, it shows that you care enough about flying to get off your a**e and do something about it.

Flying experience is not necessary for a BA cadetship, just buckets of enthusiasm.

I can't speak for any of the other flying clubs mentioned here, but I did my flying scholarship with Tayside Aviation in Dundee and I thought they were excellent. Probably a bit too far away for your purposes though.

Good luck. :)

Hi there,
:rolleyes: I feel people are OVER reacting about Glasgow Flying Club. I've been a member now for just about 2yrs and have enjoyed every minute of it. The instuctors are truely professionals and dedicated to their task. The members are great and often offer u a seat if there are any spare!
I finished the ppl course way short of the 45hrs thanx to my instuctors hard work!
Operating out of EGPF is not a bad thing-ok you might have to hold but ATC will do their best-a good point might be learning where to t/o or land depending on the arr/dep. heavy traffic-wake vortex.
As for time keeping-instructors do their best coping with the vast numbers of trial lessons and students alike-ok u might be a bit late-reasons-GOOD BRIEFINGS-CHECKING A/C-TRAFFIC-what's the rush? just go and do some reading/studying.
Cost-£6000-7000-not that bad but again depends on a number of variables-competence...
Of course it would be good to t/o exactly on time but hey that's life!
SO before one coments on GFC come down and gather evidence before u try and put someone off a flying club that would benefit one in so many ways-just like any other club-HAPPY-SAFE- FLYING Ross , 17

I'm very happy to speak up for Glasgow too. Without exception, EVERYONE I have met there has been both professional, kind and helpful.

I think that the club may be suffering from people who look from afar and critise, personally I prefer people that get stuck in and make the best of what is there.

I'm a busy chap and both Cumbernauld and Prestwick would add significant extra travel time to the training. Personally I'd prefer to be holding at W1 than queueing on the M8 or A737!

I love the PA-38s, really fun, I guess I can learn about variable pitch props later. As for the landing fees, I popped into Denham the other day and they were charging nearly as much. While at GFC you do get the benefit of get to use a busy International Airport from scratch.

As for the costs, I can't figure out what people are moaning about, surely you get a PPL to CARRY ON flying, so whether its £4500 or £8000 until you qualify, you are better off thinking mentally of a monthy cost for as long as you want to keep up the hobby...

I've just gone solo in about 14 hours, and since GFC's rates are fairly reasonable, it think it will cost me about the minimum. So the total costs are obviously down to how frequently you can fly, and how long you as an individual take to learn.

I enjoy flying, if necessary I don't mind it taking longer so long as I learn properly and fly safely.

Any doubts, come down and fly with us, and above all enjoy the moment!
:)

And all the schools wonder why we go to the US! 4,500 includes everything including accommodation plus you get it done in just over 3 weeks.

Why are they whining when they are pushing the students to go there!

Hi everyone,
Oh my god, i cant believe the amount of replies I have had for this one. I am so pleased you have all taken the time to give me some advice. I understand that getting a PPL will not give me an advantage for BA, but I thought that if I had at least some flying hours then that would be a benefit. I have already done two trial lessons, one in glasgow and one in London and I was told I was a natural - not bragging ;-) But I do think that Prestwick is better from the replies I have got. It seems a much more relaxed place. I do have a part-time job, so part of that wage would go towards it also, but for the rest I think a student loan would do. It will show BA that I am committed to flying - that I have a passion for flying. The course I am doing is Aeronautical Engineering. Therefore I think this will benefit me even more whenw working towards my PPL as I already have a good knowledge of aviation and aerodynamics. I also know so much about aircraft and how to fly them that I feel it shouldn't take too long to go solo. But then I will just have to wait and see. One more question though for all you people. Is it true you pay as you go? If so then, how much would you pay in an hour? I am estimating around 100 pounds if thats right? Coz then after 45 hours thats 4500 pounds, which I think is about right. Is the weather generally quite good at Prestwick? Or is this quite a bad time to join as the winter is rolling in fast now? I am in the stage of applying to BA at the moment. I will write down thatI have dont two flying lessons, but if I got to the full-board I think that I would be at an advantage of I said I was funding myself through a PPL at Prestwick Airport. Anyway all in all, I have read through all your replies and am eternally grateful for them. Hopefully I will be flying soon at Prestwick.
Happy Flying to all
Regards
Rossco

Hmmm.I'd think about giving GFC another try,Rossco.Don't believe any of the negative stuff written here.If you're planning to be a professional pilot surely it is better to train at a busy international airport where you will (very quickly!) get used to dealing with REAL ATC,entry/exit lanes,traffic procedures & R/T discipline.You will also get used to things like jet blast,vortex wake,being broken off approaches as bloody big jets bear down on you.(Been there,got a helluva fright,learned a lot)There is no room for crapness here!
I looked into all the local clubs very carefully before starting my PPL.I heard a few well scary stories of 'economical maintenance'/people taking off from taxiways/hours builders from hell.Didn't hear anything like this about GFC...
The very fact GFC operates where it does means that the a/c are very scrupulously maintained,as are all the relevant a/c records & documentation. Bad flying equals a wee phone call from the tower & a quiet discussion with the boss.It is just not acceptable & if that is elitist,then good.
There is absolutely NO hard sell for learners at Glasgow,although students are made very welcome & are certainly given priority over TFLs etc.Yes,it does get busy at weekends etc-personally I've found it a good time to read ops manuals & pick the brains of the other guys.
I've yet to meet single member who has been less than kind,supportive & polite & the hard work put in by the instructors is quite remarkable.Both of my FIs (both of whom are professional pilots) would often turn up after long days at work to teach their students.They could be there til' 10 or 11 at night for £15 an hour..Their dedication is quite something.I know I couldn't do it.
I haven't found Glasgow to be any more expensive than anywhere else,unless they have all dropped their rates in the past 2 years..OK,it may cost a bit more in landing fees,but I think the experience of a busy airfield more than compensates.
The only 'dodgy' thing I have ever encountered at Glasgow is the lock on the door of the ladies loo.I think that's the only time any of our lot have required 'search & rescue'...
I am intrigued by the comment that 'Prestwick has become the looneybin for Glasgow's wannabe's'.Do please elaborate! All this aside, loads of Glasgow students have gone on to very big things over the years.They are flying all over the world.Hardly what one would expect from a place 'worse than s~~~~~'
As for having to fly miles away to do any training,over the past few months I've had great fun doing PFLs from the overhead,500ft circuits,bad weather circuits,you name it..
Nah.I like GFC.I like it a lot.Give it a go!

(Sorry about all the typo's-I'm worse than useless with computers.Hope this post actually appears)
P.S-CONGRATS ON YOUR 1ST SOLO IAN!!

For goodness sake go to America!! It is by far the best option for people on a budget, and has the added bonus (esp. in California) of very reliable and consistent flying weather. For the sort of money you are talking about you could fly yourself out and pay for accommodation for no more money, and you would have had the fun of flying in America (which, believe me is much better than flying in the UK). The FAA, compared to the CAA/JAA is a positive joy to deal with, and the flying system in place is SO much more friendly to GA pilots, that you'll be very depressed when you have to come back and fly here. I know I was!!

I have been learning for about a year at the Prestwick Flight Centre and I can recommend them completely. The staff are very professional, enthusiastic and the flying is gorgeous due to the excellent scenery. I did look at Glasgow but was put off by the heavy level of traffic. At Prestwick you can virtually have the skies to yourself midweek and the advantage (and experience) of full ATC etc. There are two training organisations at Prestwick as you may have gathered, the Flying Club is at the South side of the airport and is as the name suggest, a club. The Prestwick Flight Centre is a training organisation and club and is run on a slightly different basis. At the centre the instructors are more easily contactable I find and you can plan your lessons easier. Give Suzanne a call on 01292 476523, she is the operations person at the FC and has all the facts available. You should budget for around £110 per hour but groundschool is free and there are always folk about to help with your theory exams. Good luck and maybe we will meet sometime!! happy flying.

Yup,USA certainly would be cheaper & the weather would be better,but I don't know if learning in perfect CAVOK conditions if you're coming back to fly here is such an advantage..Sure,the weather here is crap & you will spend a lot of time not flying because of it,but you'll develop a respect for it & a knowledge that perfect blue skies won't teach you.You need to pick your school carefully too.I've heard stories of badly maintained a/c,inoperable radios,having 8 a/c in the circuit at once & students waiting all day to get on a/c because it is so busy.I also know plenty people who came back without their licence & had to finish off here.
The ATC system is totally different too & you might find it a bit of a culture shock coming back here after the very 'protective' USA system.
Someone older & wiser than I also said that three weeks or so was not enough to properly assimilate all the knowledge you needed for a PPL.I think he was right,although I'm sure others will disagree.
Just a few thoughts.Hope it works out OK whatever happens!