Female wannabe - honest advice please.
 

Hi Everyone.

Great to be here. I'm looking for some really honest advice (good or bad). I'm a 40 year old female who for the past couple of years has had this vision of training to be a pilot. I'm very fit and train at least 5 times a week. I'm not one of those people who has wanted to do this from a young age, or even have any friends/family who are pilots. I don't know if I'm in the minority there. I just love travel and airports! I can't even explain the feeling of being in different airports and watching the pilots thinking how amazing it would be to do their job. Perhaps I'm having some kind of mid-life crisis, but I just have had this strong urge to do it. Education wise, I'm a primary trained teacher. I'm okay with maths and sciences, but not super amazing. In the future I would also like to live in a different country as a base. Is this possible with being a pilot?

I'm in such a fortunate position right now that I have the funds to do it - I got lucky with crypto a few years ago, so I'm financially secure. I'm a single parent to a 14-year-old. What is massively putting me off is being away for very long periods of time with the training. My child attends a private school, so boarding is an option and she is getting older and more mature.

Am I mad to even be considering this? What would your advice be for somebody like me. Is it a really bad time to try and get into aviation right now? I'm thinking of trying to get my PPL in the summer as a starting point. TIA.

No, I don't think you're mad, but there's a few things to think about.

You're 40, at the moment there's a retirement point at 60/65 for *some* forms of professional pilot, it'll take you 3ish years to qualify, so that's in the order of 22 years professional career - longer if you elect to go into something like flying instructing later on in your career. So you're not too old. You are likely to take a bit longer to qualify than a 25 year old, but not obscenely longer if you are dedicated enough.

In my opinion you want to start with one really important thing. Do a PPL. This will give you much more honest answers than any amount of aptitude tests and enthusiasm about whether you've really got the ability and dedication to go through flying training. Pick a reputable local school, make it clear you're considering going Pro, put the effort into both the ground studies and the flying training. At the end of that, review your position from a far higher level of personal knowledge.

You don't have to go fixed wing, you could go rotary. You also don't have to become an airline pilot, there are other FW jobs such as air taxi, fishery patrol, instructor. Get knowledgeable about all the options. Join the British Women Pilots Association - they're great with support and information.

After that, if you're still dedicated to this - go for it. No, you shouldn't need to live away from home: there are suitable schools across the UK, most of them basically do professional training in office hours. So you don't need to abandon your home life with your child - just treat the training as a full time (or part time) job over 2-3 years, and you'll get there.

Regarding academic skills, A-level standard maths and physics / general science is perfectly adequate for professional pilot training, and there's plenty of material out there to help you brush up if you need it.

G

Fab Response Ghenghis. Try it first. Although i do think you will have to have a lot of nights away to get professional unless you are luckily situated.

Oh and by the way, GO FOR IT. I grew up in a very working class background and was demotivated by all my teachers and peers all the way. I just ignored them. Been a professional pilot over 30 years now.

Speaking for myself, I've CPL/IR in the UK, USA and EASAland, with ME in UK and EASAland. Ignoring time that I just happened to be away for other purposes, my total time away to get all of that was probably about 4 months. I could probably have had that down to a few weeks if I didn't get the FAA licences, or take any overseas shortcuts. Of course, that's mostly living in the South of England, where the density of flying schools is relatively high, and before the UK left EASA.

G

Once you decide that it might be something for you, do a Class 1 medical

If you want to be - then be. Others have hit all the major points: Get a class 1 medical and a PPL, then you'll know for sure. Other than that, good luck! Your choice of gender will give you a huge advantage.

Absolutely, I should have said that also.

G

As others have said, do a Class 1 medical or at least research the requirements for it. :) No, you're not mad and it's probably not a bad time to start the process. Although, getting the timing right can be like playing the stock market. There's a lot of other factors that can affect the markets... Aviation is particularly sensitive to economic fluctuations.
Have a trial lesson. This way you're not investing heavily into it and you can assess the school too. Very important.

Yes, you can live elsewhere and fly. Although, your licence/passport may have more to say about that. Inquire about EASA/UK CAA licences,
Good luck

It is amazing to see people at this age, overcoming all the stereotypes and chasing their passion; Good for you lady!! I really hope you achieve your dream.
Whereabouts are you? The reason I am asking this is because U.S and Canadian market has picked up way better than Europe. If your aim is to become a professional pilot, you might have a better chance there.
PM me if you need any advice on picking schools.

Definitely go for it, but do some PPL flying and get a Class 1 medical soon, and before you give up your current employment.

I left a secure, interesting and well paid career to do an ATPL at a few years younger than you are now. I did a full-time integrated course at a good school, because I needed to get a qualification as soon as possible and start earning again, since time (age) was against me - I didn't want to spend 5 years doing it the modular way, and I wanted high quality training at ground school so I didn't waste time having to re-sit exams.

I got all of that, and at the time, (1997), it cost me between a third and a half of what it costs now, and I was able to get a job flying a shed (Shorts 360) , which got my foot on the ladder, which eventually got me into flying A330's, which was utterly fantastic.

You may find that the airlines are ageist - they are not allowed to be, but they find ways around that - so you will have to be persistent, and prepared for disappointments. They don't seem to value life experience either, they just want "cannon fodder" to populate their ridiculous rosters, and the much younger folk are easier to push around.

Airlines now subject you to lots of psychometric, and maths and verbal tests - even though you will have just passed all your ATPL written and flying exams. None of the psychometrics are particularly difficult, BUT they put ridiculously short time limits on the tests, so you need to practise, practise, practise doing psychometric, verbal and maths tests accurately and quickly. You can find most of the actual tests online by paying a subscription.

Don't let this put you off, just be aware of what lays ahead. The ATPL itself is very intensive and full-on. I was up at 0600 and not into bed until 2300 every weekday, (that included a 1 hour commute twice a day). Having got home, I spent 3 hours a night going over that day's lessons, and practising tests. Almost no family time at all for 18 months.

The very best of luck to you :ok:

I very much agree with Genghis, but, as rudestuff suggested, first get a Class 1 Medical before you do you PPL. Next, research the flying school, good initial instruction is most important. And, whatever you do, don't be put off by any antediluvian attitudes to women in aviation. I was taught by a women flying instructor a long time ago, and she was excellent, So - go for it and the best of luck!!

Word of caution about trial lessons, they’re useless as far as determining aptitude.
Trial lessons serve one purpose, selling flight training.
I’ve done 100’s.
Anybody who claims they can determine suitability by a 30-45 min flight are absolute charlatans and should never be dealt with again.
I’ve had many students who were slow to solo, I’ve had many students who were quicker to solo and most of them finished training within a handful of hours of each other.

There are many different flying jobs in aviation, “airline pilot” just being one of them.
I think your timing is pretty much spot on.
Depending on training you’ll be marketable anywhere from 3-7 years from now which will put your child in ‘leaving home’ age bracket.

Your PPL training needs to be ‘pleasant’ as it is both a recreational license and a first step towards a career. Find a club or school where you feel welcome.
After your PPL training have a serious conversation with yourself.
If you’re anything like a lot of us you can’t wait to continue.
Best wishes!


* Maybe consider doing your Private Pilot together with your daughter.

The trial lesson isn't to determine aptitude, it's to see if you'll enjoy flying and to get a feel for the flight school. There's one thing to think you'll enjoy flying, but another to actually strap yourself into an aircraft. ;)

I am 50 and used Covid lockdowns to study and obtain CPL..
Your life, your choice, your decision..
Good luck on your journey!

Go for it. In fact, with your background you would likely make a good instructor, and heaven knows we need them.

I assume that family commitments mean that you are planning on working from a UK base once employed? If this is the case then you probably only need train for a UK CAA licence, but a lot of cadets are currently choosing to get dual rated (UK CAA + EU Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) licences) in order maximise their employability across mainland Europe. Dual licence training is probably easier undertaken on an integrated course and so would be a prime consideration if choosing this route, but it's residential and with the exception of FTA-Global (Brighton) involves months overseas at a 'fair weather' base for basic flight training, which may not work for you. If it doesn't then the modular route will give you the flexibility you need and can be done at a pace that suits you. There are plenty of UK schools offering modular training and, as someone else wrote earlier, by joining the BWPA you will unlock a heap of expertise to help you choose your optimum route. Best of luck.

Echo the advice above. Take the PPL first.

How about a family holiday to Florida, flying & Disney? It will probably cost the same as staying in the UK. US has a bilateral agreement for license exchange with EASA (Private & Instrument).

Giod luck, and mostly - have fun

I tend to disagree with the second part of the advice here. Why?-

(1) Family don't take well to being second fiddle on their own holidays. In my experience combining family holidays with flying training trips seldom combine well. Do one or the other.

(2) The USA isn't the amazing cheap place to fly it once was. I've done two trips there in the last three years, and got a lot from both, but I don't think either saved me any significant money compared to doing the flying I did in the UK. The strong dollar, increasing fuel prices in the USA, increasing accommodation costs in the USA, have all conspired to end - for now - the cheap American flying holiday.

G

Sent a PM. best of luck!

Wow - I didn't expect so many responses to my thread - thank you all so much for everyone's valuable input! I will definitely start by getting my Class 1 medical and then get a feel for things in terms of training for a PPL. There are a couple of well regarded flight schools/clubs where I live, so I have a couple of options there.

I am not super academic - would this hold me back? I am a trained primary teacher, and had to do a quite a few English and maths tests to train for that. I am not afraid of doing tests as long as I have the materials to practice.

As far as I understand. there are two main routes to go down - an integrated ATPL course which basically gets you up and running within 18-24 months. I understand that this is the quickest route, and you don't need any prior flying experience. Unfortunately those flight schools are quite far away from where I am in the UK. The nearest being 2 hours away (doable but I think the onus is on you being away and staying there). The other main one is L3 Harris. They advertise quite heavily but from my research I need to avoid this one like the plague. Perhaps going down the modular route would be a better for me? Can somebody please explain how a modular route differs from an integrated ATPL? The other alternative is a degree based course with gives you a license (from my research not many options with this one).

I would like to get as many licences are I can (not just UK). Also, I would be very interested to hear about the job market at the moment. I am very concerned I won't end up employed after all my training (although L3 Harris do say they have fantastic links with the major airlines). My child would be at an adult by the time I finish, so I would have some freedom to move countries etc for employment purposes if this was the case.

Finally, I would love to hear about the general life of an airline pilot. I understand it's a very general question depending on the airline you work for, but it would still be very interesting to know. How long are your layovers? When you are employed, do you need to stay with that airline a certain number of years? What are your work patterns like? Can a first officer start off doing long-haul? TIA.

Advantage in what sense, sorry? All I have heard is that females are actively encouraged to step into the aviation industry due to a shortage.

I only have a PPL, but I’m female and had a female instructor.

I learned to fly in California, which was cheaper than elsewhere because it has excellent weather most of the time, so the flight school could rent its planes far more hours per month than they might have elsewhere.

On the other hand, I probably have less actual IFR training than most who get a PPL elsewhere.

The point of getting a Class 1 medical ASAP is so you know in advance if there is a hidden problem that could cut short your dreams before you get out of the starting gate.

You should not find the groundschool or exams particularly difficult. There is maths, geometry, angles, vectors etc, but nothing too advanced. There is an enormous amount of information to process and facts to remember though, and you will need to spend each evening going over what you learned that day.
Practise questions, and give yourself regular practise tests. For this reason, if you are unsure about exams, I would find a good ground school rather than trying to do it all yourself from books, or ad-hoc. A good ground-school instructor(s) will explain the important principles you need to learn in every subject.

The other thing is with your age you need an advantage when it comes to job interviews, up against all the 20-somethings. When I did my ATPL course, the airlines were only interested in students who had done a CAP 509 integrated full-time ATPL course at a recognised school. Having your licence from such a school might give you an advantage over someone who has spent 3-4 years struggling to complete via the modular route, and flying at weekends etc. The modular route does not necessarily have the same standards, consistency or depth of knowledge. "Chalk and talk" in a classroom is very valuable, and at the school I went to, there were components of aircraft one could look at, hold and examine, to help one's understanding.

Re airline pilot, the job: Be prepared for a few years of very hard work, very busy rosters, night flying, four or six sector days, 30 minute turn-arounds, minimum rest, working weekends, Bank holidays, and at Christmas. 6 days on 2 off was not uncommon, and you became a zombie - you were either working, driving to/from work, or sleeping. You will often have to wake up at 0300 or not get to bed until 0300.

Unlikely to get a long-haul job straight away - those are the top jobs and you cannot just walk into them. You will have to spend a few years doing all the drudgery, (as above) to 'earn' your place. Long-haul lay-overs used to be a few days, (sometimes a week), but are more often 24 hour "bullets" now i.e. fly, eat, sleep, maybe a couple of hours to yourself the next day, then get ready and fly home - often flying all night to arrive when the airport opens in the morning.

Again, I am not trying to put you off, but there is A LOT of hard work ahead; both at flight school and in your first job. :)
.

It should be fairly obvious. Those identifying as female are under-represented in the profession (although arguably over-represented amongst those who actually want to do the job - but that's another argument!) You'll almost certainly make it to interview. Only a small fraction of the blokes will make it that far, which is a pretty sweet deal if you can get it. Good luck!

I would look at modular training, not just integrated - which is over-rated anyway.

Phil

No advice here, just posting for encouragement:

Sigríður Einarsdóttir, a female captain at Icelandair flew her last trip a few days ago, having started with the company in 1984, becoming a captain in 1996. The crew on the last flight was naturally all female.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8cb079e19c.jpg
(BTW don't think the picture is off the crew, probably all the female pilots working there)
https://www.mbl.is/frettir/innlent/2...ja_icelandair/

A non-academic teacher... Isn't that an oxymoron? For the ATPL exams GCSE level maths will do just fine. For flying a Jet you'll really just need your 3x table for calculating descent!

The 'two main routes' are all you should consider, although in reality there are way more than that (there are at least 7 or 8 ways to get an IR for example). Neither require any previous experience!
Generally integrated is quicker and more expensive. However if you want to get qualified quickly then modular can be a lot quicker. Integrated courses have a fixed time table whereas modular can be done at your own pace (which can mean faster as well as slower).

To explain how modular is different from integrated you have to understand how the licencing system works:
There are many types and levels of licence, but only 3 that matter: PPL, CPL and ATPL ascending in that order.
A PPL lets you fly a plane. You take exams and a flight test.
A CPL lets you fly and get paid for it. Either in command of a single pilot airplane, or as FO on a multi pilot airplane (read: airliner) you take more exams and another flight test (however the ATPL exams are downwards creditable for this and the IR so very few people take the CPL or IR exams, they just skip straight to the ATPL exams)
An ATPL lets you command a multi pilot airplane, and can only realistically be gained through employment as an FO. You've already done the exams so you just need to build 1500 hours/500 multi crew then take the test.

Then you have ratings:
An instrument reading lets you fly in cloud .
A night rating lets you fly at night. Optional with a PPL.
A Class rating lets you fly a class of airplane (eg Single engine piston, multi engine piston).
A type rating lets you fly anything considered complex enough that it requires specialist training. (All airliners).

Then you have the 'extras' :
ATPL theory credit. You need this to get your first multi pilot type rating and to upgrade to ATPL later in your career.
UPRT: upset recovery (aerobatics) - a relatively new addition.
MCC: multi crew cooperation course. Teaches you to work as a team to fly cooperatively.
JOC: Jet orientation course to help prepare you for a jet type rating usually combined with MCC.
APS: Airline pilot standards MCC.

If you go through the modular route you will start with a medical and PPL (which will be done on a SEP and give you that class rating) and finish with a CPL, MEP, MEIR, UPRT and MCC. This is known as a frozen ATPL and is the minimum qualification to get an airline job.
How you get there is up to you. You can buy your own airplane or share to build hours and do each course in any order you like (although there is an optimal). You can do each course in a different school if you like. As soon as you pass your PPL you're a pilot. You can start your ATPL studies. You can take friends out flying. Once you get your night rating you can take them out at night too. You get the idea.

With an integrated course you end up with exactly the same qualification - except you skip the PPL and start with the ATPL theory, then follow a much more prescribed syllabus but you won't hold any licence until the end of the course. And you'll have spent twice the money. For the same licence.

A degree course which gives you a license is pointless. Especially as you already have a degree. You'd be wasting your time and money.
The only thing we haven't covered is the MPL - which is basically an integrated course where you take your test in a simulator and come out with a fATPL AND a Type rating - usually only done in cahoots with a sponsoring airline. And it's multi pilot ONLY, no light aircraft shenanigans.

More licences are better but cost more money to get and to keep. Unless you are employed you'll have to pay to keep Class ratings, Type ratings and instrument ratings current every year. Once you're employed you'll be sent to the simulator every 6 months to pass your test over and over again. The airline pilots job market is highly cyclical. There are airlines in the UK right now that cannot hire qualified people fast enough. Qualified means type rated and experienced DEP/DEC - direct entry Pilot/Captain. When they run out of those people then they look for experienced people for Non type rated positions NTR. When they run out of those they ask for cadets and pilot apprentices. Many companies take cadets as a matter of course to keep the fleet experience balanced. Those are the jobs you'll be going for. As for moving - that's a given. If your first
job offer is in Kazakhstan then that's where you're going.

One man's great is another man's nightmare. It depends very much on what you like and your home situation. For stability, go for low cost like Ryanair. 5 on 4 off and you sleep in your own bed every night. At the other end of the spectrum you could be flying a cargo 747 on a 21 day trip (with 21 days off after).
Layovers depend on network design. If your airline flies there every day it'll be 24 hour stops - which are the worst on the body clock. 12-16 or 36-40 is much better.
Some airlines bond people for their training, payable pro rata for leaving before 2 or 3 years, but they're usually unenforceable. If it's a good airline you can stay as long as you like although there are advantages to staying longer - If you got a new type rating you might want to get 1000hrs on it before you left for example to make you more employable. More airlines still fly random roster patterns. Although some like Ryanair and Easy prefer fixed patterns. Basically with a random pattern your life is not your own and weekends do not exist any more. Rosters are written to suit the company and published a month or so in advance. You might have 4 on 2 off 5 on 4 off etc...all at random, they put your off days where it suits them. You can have Roster changes but they can't make you work an off day without your consent. In my last company it was £500 per day for working an off day. Most places have 6-8 weeks Leave bookable in advance, and usually you can request a few days of every month to cater for special occasions. Most cadet positions are for A320/B737 jobs, narrow body short haul. Some airlines that's all there is, so if you want LH you have to move on. I can think of 2 airlines who take cadets straight on to 777 for long haul, but don't expect to get to land the plane very often!

That should cover most of it. If you put in the work and get lucky with the job you'll find it's a great career. Great money and it certainly doesn't feel like work.
You get paid for and train for the 0.1% of the time when things go wrong, but 99.9% of the time it's the easiest job in the world.

43 years old here and fully certified, took me 20 years to get here but well worth it. If you believe you can...you will. Tough times don't last but tough people do so go for it.

The path from the very outset to a mildly balanced job will be long, around 7 years(*). Before you embark, make sure to know your fallback and replacement options if at any moment it all stops working. Ink on paper.

(*) unless you stumble across a partially sponsored cadet-to-hero course with RYR or alike, which you should snatch immediately without hesitation.

Another one for encouragement: The chief pilot of Icelandair, leading over 500 pilots, is a lady, and now her daughter is a pilot at the domestic part of the company, having decided at an age of 5 to become a pilot: https://www.mbl.is/frettir/innlent/2...ir_icelandair/