Which ATPL Exams to Resit ?
 

Hi
Can anyone tell me if I had a CPL but no IR what exams I would need to resit when they expire ? Or if I had a PPL with ME IR what exams would I need to retake before doing CPL course ? I have contacted CAA but no reply

Hi Negan sorry should of said I have completed my ATPLs in March 2015 so they will expire in March 2018. I am looking into doing CPL/IR but looks like I won't complete it in time going by some schools I've spoke to. So I'm wondering if its better to have a CPL or an IR which one will require me to resit the least number exams ?

If your ATP exams run out you can refresh them for the IR with just 4, which will not include Met or Human Factors - can't remember the other one just at the minute. Assuming you have a PPL, if you got the IR, then the exams would be valid for 7 years, so doing it backwards is an option.

So I have a PPL and if I do IR but don't get the CPL bit done due to weather etc then to get back to ATPL and do CPL how many exams would I need to redo ?

None for 7 years after the expiry of the IR

(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical
knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a
period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that
licence.

You'll need to pass both the CPL and IR within 36 months of the last exam. 7 years from last IR is only for the issue of an ATPL.

See CAP804 section 4, Part A, Page 3

Hi Guys
If I can't get both done is it better to have the CPL or the IR which one will require least amount of exam resits ? I Phoned the CAA today but they didn't have anyone round who could answer my question so I've sent an Email and have to phone back Monday.

The quick answer to that is the IR

According to Bristol ground school the instrument rating has 7 exams of which you will be exempt two as a CPL holder. So your best bet is to get your CPL.

The way I read the regulation, even though after 36 months you can't use your atpl results to get an IR or CPL, they should still remain valid for the issue of a full atpl.

Why can't you do both the CPL and IR before march? That would seem plenty of time

The plan is to complete it before then but if weather goes bad or my brain takes longer to take it all in :{ Then I wanted to know what the options are
5 Exams is better than having to do 14 but hopefully fingers crossed it won't come to that !:ok:

Good luck! If time starts to run out, you might want to consider an IR(R) followed by a single engine CBIR - it's less hours with no need to do the MEP course first. It's the quickest IR and you can always upgrade to ME it after the 36 month limit has passed.
If you do a 10 hour BIFM, the CPL is only 15 hours and the IR(R) is 5 hours.

This is incorrect.

Once you get the exams, they remain valid for 36 months for CPL & IR issue.

Assuming you get both, they remain valid for 7 years from the last IR check for ATPL issue. They will not be valid for CPL issue after 3 years.

EASA FCL.025 spells this out very clearly:

Therefore if you do not get BOTH and CPL and an IR within the 36 months, you would have to retake ALL the exams.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/fi...u/Part-FCL.pdf

That's not what is written though is it? ATPL exams are downward creditable, and the time limit depends on what you want to use them for: PPL 24 months, CPL and IR 36 months etc. It stands to reason that you can't use them for an IR after 36 months, true. But where does it say that if you don't use them for CPL and IR issue they are rendered invalid for ATPL purposes? That's more of an inference than a fact. I see no reason why separate IR exams wouldn't work - the OP would hold a legitimate CPL/IR - so only the 7 year rule would be relevant.

You're trying to cherry pick two separate requirements.

The exams only remain valid for the issue of a CPL for 36 months.

Having a CPL is a prerequisite for the issue of an ATPL.

The exams will remain valid for 7 years from the last IR for ATPL issue.

Dammit, you're right. There is a completely different section in Cap804 which says that ATPL theory credit lapses if CPL and IR are not granted within 36 months.
Which if taken literally, means if you already have a CPL/IR and you pass your ATPLs they would lapse after 36 months, unless you get your CPL/IR "granted" again. Daft.

The whole thing is very poorly written. If the OP is still reading this - why aren't you in a plane right now?

Referring back to the question about the IR exams, my understanding regarding the credit that exempts an applicant sitting MET and HPL as part of the IR(A) examination group is that it is only available where a CPL has previously been issued. I'm fairly certain CAP804 describes.

I have tried most places in UK and nearly all are fully booked to March some to June the others I have spoken to say it may not be possible to complete it in time and I don't want to risk it so rather than waste money and not complete CPL/IR I am considering redoing them all.

With regards to resitting the ATPLs do they have to expired first or not ?
How do you go about the distance learning side of things do you have to attend brush up classes ? I did my ATPLs with Propilot can I just sign up to another school or not ?

Why would you not even try? Flight schools must be doing a roaring trade if you can't get into a cockpit in any school in the country! You've got 4 months haven't you?

ATIS31,

I would urge you (if the finances permit) to get your CPL/IR issued before your ATPL exam credits expire - I’ve been in your position and you don’t want to go there.
There is a bit of misinformation in this thread but RTN11 is correct in what he says regarding the time scale.

I was in a position of having a CPL (completed at Tayside) but before I could do my IR I was offered a flying position if I got an FAA CPL ME IR. So I borrowed more money and went down that route.
I ended up in a very fortunate (and slightly bizarre) position of eventually flying a Gulfstream G450 on an American licence but having my ATPL credits expire. Long story.

I have now almost completed them again but ironically despite real world flying experience have found them harder than before. The system has changed to the new Quadrant exam style with a massively modified question bank.
You have four months before the expiry - I would go to Florida and sign up with a school such as EFT or EAA. The weather will be very good now. They can get you an EASA CPL, FAA ME IR which you could convert back in Europe with a 15hr course.

I have now taken 25 ATPL exams in total - 3 to go. Even as a relatively experience pilot it is tough going to find the motivation again. Avoid it mate and get flying!