Changing logbook from FAA to EASA
 

Hi everyone,

I have a bit of a "problem". I did most of my flying in U.S and got my FAA CPL ME/IR over there, and just converted my license to EASA CPL ME/IR.
In the U.S I had a "simple" logbook and was told to log my safety pilot hours in the PIC section. And since safety pilot hours is not valid in Europe I'm not sure how to sum up my hours in my new logbook (EASA approved).

Because according to my old FAA logbook I have aprox 230h PIC, of which about 100h is safety pilot. So according to EASA I have 130h PIC.. So if I forward my hours according to EASA, I will have less hours in my new logbook than in my previous logbook which don't make much sense and might be hard to explain to some airlines if they want a copy of my logbook.

Any suggestions on what to do? :bored:

Alex,

Fill out a new logbook using the EASA logging scheme. The safety pilot entries could be retained, without any time being entered in the PIC column, however it will be easier to maintain separate logbooks for each authority.

So should I reduce the PIC hours when i forward my entries to my EASA logbook?

Yes, I would write another column in as safety pilot so your total match

Okay, that would probably work out. Thanks!

Why not just highlight all the incorrectly entered PIC safety pilot hours with a coloured pen then make an entry on a new page correcting your hours with an explanation and then just carry on in your logbook. You made an error due to bad advice, better to let it show than have to explain a logbook with new pristine entries.

My current logbook is not EASA approved and has never been questioned by an employer or authority despite flying in EASA land.

He didn't make an error, 2 pilots can log pic in the states , in easa you can not

Alex,

Yes, exactly. Alternatively, as ersa suggests, add another column into which US safety pilot time is recorded and alter the [EASA] PIC time accordingly. If you do this then strike out the old PIC times using black ink so that the original entry is still legible; correcting fluid is not viewed favourably in the North America.

May I accuse you of logbook bigotry? ;) It is not an error to log US training in accordance with US rules.

I have learnt something today. However, if the safety pilot is pilot in command, what is the other pilot? I find it strange that 2 pilots can both be deemed in command, but perhaps PIC has a slightly different meaning under FAA.
Thank you for correcting me, happy to stand corrected!

So I think I will add a column saying S.P (Safety Pilot) in my new easa logbook and then remove the S.P hours from my PIC. So in my easa logbook I will have less hours PIC than in my FAA logbook, but it's easy to explain since the remaining hours will be under the "S.P" column.
Would it be a problem if I add the safety pilot hours to my total hours in my easa logbook (so that my total hours add up according to my FAA logbook)?

Thanks for helping me out!

Having been put right re FAA rules, maybe I can offer some ideas re EASA rules.
In EASA land only one person can be PIC, and if a single pilot aeroplane only one pilot can log the hours unless operating commercially as multicrew which is done on things like King airs and smaller Citations.

As far as your Safey pilot hours go, if another pilot was logging the flight as PIC in FAA land, you cannot count them in EASA land unless the other pilot does not.

You can create a cloumn and record the flights but the hours cannot be counted towards any experience levels.

Hope this helps.

bingofuel,

If the safety pilot is acting as pilot-in-command then the other pilot can, at best, only log as pilot-in-command. Under US regulations it is possible for the acting pilot-in-command to be unable to log pilot-in-command time: see FAA interpretation to John Speranza (4 Dec 2009) [pdf] and summarised by J S Yodice in a 2010 AOPA magazine article (vol 53, no 3 - pdf). A related interpretation was given to Jason Herman (21 May 2009) [pdf] concerning complex and high performance aeroplanes, and similarly to Keith Walker (14 Dec 2011) [pdf]. J S Yodice provides an updated discussion of these in an AOPA article in Feb 2014 [link] while a more comprehensive review, one which is well worth reading, is given in Speciale & Venhuizen (2007). The Pilot in Command and the FARS: The Buck Stops Here (Almost Always). 83 N.D. L. Rev. 817.

Alex,

Do not include "logged as PIC but did not act as PIC" time in your total times for EASA purposes. You might be able to log some of that experience as dual if permitted under EASA logging rules.

selfin,

Okay thanks for clearing that up. So the time I logged as PIC while I was Safety Pilot, and not the pilot flying, is not loggable under EASA.
I will just put it in a separate column and will NOT add it to my total time. I'll just have it in my logbook to make it easier to explain how I logged in my FAA book.

Thanks for posting guys, really appreciate it!

EASA need not reject pilot-in-command time recorded by a person acting as pilot-in-command merely because, under the foreign regulations governing the flight, another pilot may log pilot-in-command time. Clearly, the other pilot cannot [also] log pilot-in-command time for EASA qualification purposes despite being able to do so for US certification purposes.

An inspecting of both logbooks would fail to answer who acted as pilot-in-command, unless for example one of the pilots acted in the capacity of a certificated flight instructor. See footnote 10 to Admin. v Strobel, N.T.S.B. Order No. EA-4384 (Jul. 18, 1995):

Alex,

Actually I cannot see why a required safety pilot who acts as pilot-in-command cannot be credited as such for EASA purposes. The other pilot who only logs pilot-in-command time must, however, not claim pilot-in-command time for EASA purposes.

Oh I see. Just to make it easy for me I'll make a column with safety pilot where i forward those hours (and reduce them from my PIC time).

Under EASA, a single pilot aeroplane, which I assume we are discussing here, has only one commander. If it is an instructional flight the instructor is P1 and the student is Pu/t. (Pilot under training)
If a flight test and you pass you can log P1.

As far as I am aware EASA do not recognise the term safety pilot, only an instructor or examiner can also log the time as P1, another pilot going along to keep a look out is a passenger.

That statement is equally true for single-pilot aeroplanes operated under US regulations.

The US regulations retain the basic principle of the instructor acting as PIC, and by the first statement he is the only acting PIC; the difference is that, under the conditions given in 14 CFR 61.51, the instructed may sometimes log PIC but this logged time is considered as Pu/t (dual) by EASA. An instructed person cannot claim PIC under EASA because US precedent deems the instructor to have been acting as PIC (cf Admin v Hamre, etc).

The fact that the acting pilot-in-command is styled as a safety pilot under US regulations should have no bearing on EASA's recognition. It is immaterial that EASA has not established equivalent regulations because, as far as EU regulations are concerned, the safety pilot acting as pilot-in-command assumed exactly the same responsibilities and duties as are required of a pilot-in-command under EU regulation. That is the test for logging PIC under EASA rules, is it not?

Selfin,

your missing the point, its highly likely that the 2 people in the cockpit have both logged PIC.

Ive seen many log books from the FAA, in EASA it won't be accepted.

Alex is better off starting a new logbook with just his dual and solo hours then adding another column as safety pilot with his total safety pilot hours there for reference ...

All I will say to you Alex is, I have explained what EASA will accept, whether you take my advice or not is your decision.

I have a logbook started in the US, meaning I have some dual flights as PIC etc. The thing to remember is this: Under EASA in single pilot operations, disregarding PIC/us - you only have two options: PIC or P/ut. One or the other. Add them together and you'll get TT.
As far as EASA goes, all you need to do is TT - dual = PIC.

As far as the differences between FAA and EASA logging, should there be a difference between acting as PIC and logging PIC, allowed by the FAA? Of course not, there should only be one commander and the logbook should recognise that. Should an IR training flight in VMC under the hood be a two pilot operation? Of course it should - because there is a requirement for someone to look outside. Under FAA they can both log PIC (daft), under EASA the safety pilot can't log anything (equally as daft)