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-   -   MEP rating needed?? (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/555946-mep-rating-needed.html)

flyinghigh19 4th Feb 2015 21:12

MEP rating needed??
 
Hello everyone

I'm new to this forum and seeking some information on the MEP and MEIR.
As I understand it from my own reading, to conduct the MEIR you only need to of conducted the MEP TRAINING, not actually of done the test for the MEP.
I know of a friend who has done this and has got a CPL with MEIR, but no MEP rating. She has gone onto fly A320's within a year..
So my question is.. Is the MEP test only actually needed if you want to fly that class of aircraft? And this could also save money!

mad_jock 5th Feb 2015 04:38

You need to state where in the world you want the regulations for.

Europe you need to have passed the test for mep before sittting the intial spa-me-ir

flyinghigh19 5th Feb 2015 07:03

Hi mad jock

Yes I'm from Europe. From what I have read, to get the IR you only need to have the credit for the training, ie, 7 hours groundschool, passed the written test and 6 hours training. Speaking to an examiner he thought the same too..
And going onto a type rating, you only need the MEIR, not the MEP

Mach1.1 5th Feb 2015 08:36

To undertake the MEIR Skills Test an applicant must either already hold, or be qualified by virtue of having passed the relevant Skills Test, for the issue of a ME Class Rating. The CPL Skills Test, if done on a twin, counts as being qualified for the issue of a ME Class Rating. Having merely done the course but not the Skills Test does not count. Very recently a MEIR had to be cancelled on the advice of a CAA examiner because the applicant did not have a ME Class Rating

Pete O'Tewbe 5th Feb 2015 09:43

Looking at Subpart G to Part-FCL, I am unable to find it stated or implied that a MEP Skill Test must have been taken and passed prior to undertaking the IR Skill Test on a MEP aircraft.

If mad_jock or Mach1.1 are able to provide a reference in the Regulation or its supporting documents indicating otherwise, I am happy to be corrected.

BillieBob 5th Feb 2015 09:47

The precise wording in Appendix 6 to Part-FCL is: "The ATO shall ensure that the applicant for a multi-engine IR(A) course who has not held a multi-engine aeroplane class or type rating has received the multi-engine training specified in Subpart H prior to commencing the flight training for the IR(A) course."

Thus there is no requirement to have passed the MEP class rating skill test and the CAA advice quoted by Mach 1.1 was incorrect (not for the first time). The requirement has not changed since it was first introduced at Amendment 4 to JAR-FCL-1.

flyinghigh19 5th Feb 2015 09:56

Thank you for your replies'

I've trawled through part FCL and it never states the MEP test needs have been completed. It says even on the CAA website that if you don't hold an MEP rating the relevant TRAINING needs to be completed at an ATO, not the actual test.

Like I put in my original post, my friend never had MEP on her licence and is now flying the a320's.

Makes for good discussion!

Pete O'Tewbe 5th Feb 2015 10:02

Thanks, BillieBob. That's what I always thought it to be.

zondaracer 5th Feb 2015 10:33

At an ATO where I trained, I remember it being standard practice that students would take their MEIR exam one day and then take their MEP class rating exam the following day (training had been completed prior to the IR training).

mad_jock 5th Feb 2015 10:56

How can they issue a SPA-ME-IR when you don't hold a ME class?

RTN11 5th Feb 2015 11:07


How can they issue a SPA-ME-IR when you don't hold a ME class?
Surely you would just send in SRG1161, and they would issue it? I certainly don't see why not.

There is nothing in the law that you have to hold an MEP rating, only to have completed the MEP course before you start the IR.

You could easily get the MEIR issued with no MEP rating, you would never be able to use the SPE-ME-IR privileges, but then who ever does? Most of us only get the IR as a prerequisite to doing a multi pilot type rating, and that's got nothing to do with an MEP rating. Also, you'd still be able to use the SPA-SE-IR privileges contained within the SPA-ME-IR rating.

Pete O'Tewbe 5th Feb 2015 11:38

I would guess that the entry in Part XII of the licence would read "IR-SP-ME" or similar.

nick14 5th Feb 2015 12:30

This will change at the end of 2015 and require that you also hold the class/type rating to avoid the licence having an IR with no associated class or type.

It will also change the requirements for the first MPA type rating to hold or have held a ME/IR, so once you have been issued with the qualification you don't need to keep it current in order to start a MPA type course.

Mach1.1 5th Feb 2015 14:26

The CAA advice quoted by me was based on an actual event as a result of advice to the examiner from a CAA examiner. It was offered with the best of intentions and did not warrant BillieBob's rude comment. I am prepared to be corrected but I take offence at his attitude. It seems that once again a topic has degenerated into a slanging match.

mad_jock 5th Feb 2015 16:44

In my day under JAR you had to show your pass cert for MEP before sitting the IR. You didn't need to have it installed on any license.

But you are correct that its very unlikely that most will ever use the MEP in anger. I certainly didn't.

As I already have done 2 multicrew ratings I must admit its all pretty much in the past for me now.

Duchess_Driver 9th Feb 2015 18:43

A recent eMail to flight test bookings at CAA requesting approval for an examiner to carry out an initial MEIR and initial MEC on the same day was met with (swift) approval and a polite reminder that they must be carried out in two separate flights. no stipulation as to order.

As has been said already, the training has to have been completed for the MEC, but not necessarily the skills test. And that's the way we do it.

BillieBob 10th Feb 2015 09:44

Mach 1.1 - go back and read my post again - slowly. I point out that information given by the CAA was, not for the first time, incorrect and you seem to take it as a personal insult. My statement was factually correct and, unless you were the CAA examiner concerned, I don't see the problem.

gpiper 19th Apr 2016 05:23

Since you are talking about skills tests, I have another question for you.

Can someone who completed the MEP training, and the CPL training(on a multi), do the the CPL skills test on a multi engine aircraft if he/she doesn't have an MEP rating, and leave the MEP skills test in the end to be combined with the IR?

If someone can answer this question, then also include your resources.

macflea 19th Apr 2016 14:41

flyinghigh19

good post

I looked up the cadet requirements for Ryanair, it doesn't state you need a multi engine rating , but only a multi engine instrument rating!

in my case I have an expired multi engine rating and expired multiengine instrument rating , I wonder could I get away with skipping the multi engine skills test.

also in the Ryanair add it states ,you must have a flight crew license ( theoretical atpl with a valid jar or an easa Cpl)

what is the difference ? or what is this ?

nick14 28th Apr 2016 19:04

It's just the MEIR you need for the first multipilot type so you could save yourself 20 mins on the prof check and just do the IR portion, but it still requires renewing in the a/c


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