Good luck - the journey to a fATPL isn't easy. For some finding a job is difficult for others relatively simple.

If it's something you want to do then why not? You'll see a mixed bag of comments on pprune, some of which are supportive and some not. Take them all with a pinch of salt. Only you know how capable you are and the impact this may have on your family....whether positive or negative.

Exactly the point I wished someone made .I do not see why would one discourage someone to pursue their passion just because there is a chance the he/she might of those who find it difficult to get that first job.

Actually I was going to say why don't you look into the fixed axis microlight world. Once you do you PPL(A) convert to a fixed axis microlight, to become a fixed axis microlight instructor you wont need CPL or ATPL theoretical knowledge, you will just need to get the required total fixed axis hours and do the microlight instructors course. Hour building on a fixed axis mircolight will be cheap. Also fixed axis microlight instructors get paid 40 to 45 pound per flight hour, much higher than group A instructors. This will be the cheapest way for you to get into paid aviation employment. As a fixed axis instructor you may not be earing that much less than what you do now. While working as a fixed axis instructor continue to save towards doing the frozen ATPL. As you are flying for a living there is no rush to get the frozen ATPL done, and even in 10 years time at 31 you are still plenty young enough to make a go of it.

^ I was once told by a C42 flying school that microlight hours can't towards towards the CPL?

No they don't that is correct, and you have totally missed the point I am trying to make. The point is, it will get him the cheapest and quickest way into a full time aviation employment, Fixed axis mircrolight instructors can make 25 to 35 k a year, pretty much what he is earning from two jobs.
If he is desperate to fly he will be flying with the minimum investment. He can still over the years use these earnings to save to do the CPL, hour build and ME IR. At the end of 10 years he will have only have 200 hour CPL/IR as far as "group A" hours are concerned, but potentially 1000s hours on fixed axis microlights, although the fixed axis hours do not count it is potentially a better flying CV than 200 hour CPL/IR while trying to stay current in two non aviation related jobs.

Go for it.

I would seriously look into the CBIR route though. If you get you IR(R) then you can be logging hours towards your CBIR whilst hour building and doing the exams.

Nothing with wrong with having kids early .It is life my friend .My kids have a top life like any other happy kids.
I actually took on my wife who had three kids already ,which are now my step sons.Sounds like a man enough to step up to the plate in my opinion and they would take a bullet for me any day ! And I am in it to give them a rock lean on .
Disregard your negativity because I will make it and certainly not at the expense of my kids happines,well being or their future.

Couincil Van, that must be a while back, no turboprop first officer job currently pays enough that it would get you a salary multiple to buy a family home. In most parts of the country not even a 1 bed flat, Haven't seen a turbo-prop job that pays much more than 26k starting for someone with no previous turbine time, (31k for a channel island based operator but in the channel islands 31k is only the same as 26k on the mainland due to the accommodation expense). 3.5 x 26 = 90k,

Eastern about 22k a year with an 18 k three year bond.
Flybe about 26k a year
Aurigny 31 k (but paying Guernsey accomadation rates)
Isles of Scilly Skybus about 22k per year
Logan Air around the 24 to 28 k region.
King Air First Officer jobs about 18 to 25 k a year.

So on average as I said about 25/26k a year, there may be a bit of sector pay to add.

Modular Candidate with low hours has no route into Easyjet.

Ryanair may be a good way to build the heavy hour quickly but you need top put up 28000 Euros for the type rating if you do get in, not sure on his current plan he could afford the type rating as well.

However, Ryanair, Wizz et al pay double that starting salary. Or used to last time I did the research. Yes you have to front the TR, but loans are available from banks based on your offer of employment.

I've been folowing this thread for a couple of days now, and here's my 2 cents.

I believe, nobody said that it's too early to have kids. It was more gesture of sympathy to mention that it's a tough situation, and You only deserve :D for being on top of that.

It is very important, that Your second half supports You in such a circumstances, and You are really happy in that sense and should be thankful.
Just out of curiosity, the question I have is - what would You do if Your wife was not so supportive? Would You still pursue Your dream? I will understand if it's personal and You won't be willing to answer that.

I think what others are trying to tell is not so negative, but rather a reasonable look at the reality. So You are sure, that now You are coping with supporting Your family pretty good. I don't know how old Your kids are, but they will grow, and the demands will be higher - school, clothes, college, uni, etc. You will have to continue Your training, and financial demands for that will also be higher. Especially when You are doing ME and trying to keep IR current. So taking into consideration these 2 things, there is a high possibility, that at some point in time You will face a decision to make - whether it's something for Your kids, or Your training. If You never face that question, then You are a lucky man! But in case You do, You have to be prepared for that, because You will have to live with this decision for the rest of the life further on.

In any case. Despite all the facts, I do hope that You can make it, and that Your kids and wife will not suffer from that. But just be careful with Your decisions, and also remember the fact, that there may be multiple ways to pursue Your dream, so don't get discouraged, if the way it happens is not what You expected.

Also, have You considered the West Atlantic cadetship? Not sure if the program is still actual, and they defo not taking new cadets on board now, but hopefully it may become available later. You could get there with PPL on hands.

Taking my first steps
 

Hello everyone, I hope you've all had a good Christmas and haven't had to work too much.

I believe I am posting this in the correct forum due to my long term intentions, please let me know if not. In short I am seeking advice on how best to proceed from 0 flying hours to an airline career. Please forgive any incorrect terminology used.

A little about me...
I have had an interest in aviation for many years, my childhood desire to "become a pilot" recently became an achievable prospect when I discovered how cost effective PPL/PPL(m) licences and associated hour building can be. I have always had a keen interest in mathematics, physics and mechanics so I believe my aspiration to be a pilot is realistic. I currently work as an ambulance technician and the ambulance crew working model appears to bear a very close resemblance to that of a flight crew, which I believe may stand me in good stead. I'm 28 years old. I do not have the cash to obtain my fATPL/MPL and type rating.

The purpose of this post...
I'm seeking advice from any willing members on how to start flying, I invite your feedback and criticism of my plan as I would hate to take the wrong path.

I am a risk averse person so jumping straight onto a c£100k flying programme either sponsored or self-funded is not for me. My current intent:
1) Obtain my PPL and buy/hire/syndicate a plane.
2) Log 'a few hundred' flying hours to ensure that piloting is not a novelty that I will tire of, and to confirm whether it is something that I have some aptitude for.
3) Apply for my class 1 medical (at present I see no reason to fail this).
4) Either obtain my CPL and fly professionally for a few hundred/thousand hours or apply for the highly competitive cadet pilot schemes by Virgin/BA, etc...
5) If CPL route, keep applying for cadet pilot schemes until successful or until I can afford to fund my own training.

At stage 1 I am keen to obtain my PPL(m), my research indicates it would cost £3-5k to obtain the licence then a 3-axis microlight could be purchased for c£5k. I feel that if I did not progress onto commercial flying I would likely continue flying for leisure, and a 3-axis microlight appears considerably cheaper to fly than a category A plane. I would also be able to own rather than syndicate a microlight vs a Cessna/Piper, etc...

Stage 4 is something I am uncertain of, a CPL appears to be achievable for £10-15k but is it enough to start experiencing true commercial flying and earning enough money to be able to afford an fATPL/MPL?

I'm aware of other qualifications that might be added on as/when affordable or relevant such as instrument rating, multi-engine, multi-pilot, etc...but I'm not sure where they play their part between a PPL and a sponsored/self-funded fATPL/MPL.

Any advice, suggestions, opinions, constructive criticism is welcomed.

Thank you.

Hi Andy,

In terms of the best way to start flying is as you say, go and get some lessons from your local club and start working towards your PPL (A), not the microlight as I'll explain. This will allow you to get some advice and you'll learn what the different types of licenses and rating all mean, and what you need. But more importantly it will allow you to see if flying is really for you and how much you actually enjoy it. I understand what its like when researching all of this and not being able to work out what it all means.

The question I'd have for you is what sort of pilot you want to become? Recreational, instructor, bizjets, airline? There are many ways to achieve all of these. If it's commercial flying you want then don't bother with the microlights as that time wont count towards your CPL, so its kind of a waste of money aside from the fun factor.

The cheapest option is the modular route and will cost ~£60K. This is done by building on licenses ratings and experience and is generally more flexible. You will get PPL, night rating, build hours, ATPL theory exams, CPL, multi engine and instrument rating. Also an MCC if you want to fly multi crew. All of this is whats known as a fATPL. There is the more expensive integrated options where it's all done in one package. Integrated normally costs at least £100k. Have a look at the integrated vs modular thread.

Good idea to try and apply to the BA/Virgin cadetships however they are highly competitive, but you do have a job waiting for you at the end. It's also a good idea to have a bit of flying experience when you apply for these, even if its only a few hours, it shows good motivation.

Also I would recommend getting your class 1 first, as you don't want to spent tons on training only to find you cant get the medical at the end.

Just my thoughts, feel free to message :8

How to be a cadet？
 

i am a high school student in China and being a pilot is always my dream. But my left eye has a eyesight of 250. So can i still become a pilot?
What about learning flying in foreign country likes Canada, usa? And what about the learning fee?
i'll be very thankful if there is some one to provide me advice
Thanks!

First things first, you should go to your local airclub and get your derriere in a light piston aircraft : you'll see if it's for you !

I'm on the virgin cadet scheme and we do have a few guys who took this same route. They got PPLs, got hours up to around a hundred whilst doing other jobs and then joined the scheme in late twenties/early thirties. So its a good sensible plan.

Pilotflying rocks, KayPam and FlyANA thank you for your replies. I've been on a block of shifts at work so could not reply sooner.

I only just realised that the administrators have moved my post into this merged thread which is ideal as I can now browse the entire thread when I get chance.

Pilotflyingrocks.
Thank you for your reply. My intent (if all goes well) is commercial passenger airline flying, at the moment I'm thinking long-haul will be my preference but can see the benefits of short-haul too. My understanding is that most have to start short-haul for take-off/landing experience.

My "local" club which is a mere 5 miles away is a microlight one, albeit with fixed wing microlights available. I will research my nearest club that offers lessons in light aircraft and visit them for an orientation and a trial lesson. The main reason I considered a microlight as a first step was because it would be cheaper per hour than a Light Aircraft to continue as a hobby if I did not progress to commercial flying, however it appears I could still buy/fly a fixed-wing microlight based on a PPL(A) licence for the "fun" aspect. If it doesn't build hours then it does seem to be wasted money at this stage.

I researched the modular vs integrated schemes, however being realistic I don't think either route is affordable for me on an effective timescale without the use of finance, for which I would likely need to utilise the cadet pilot scheme's guarantor provision. I discovered that applicants that spread their modular training over several years do not have much success applying to the larger, long-haul and higher-salaried airlines when compared to those who took integrated courses.

I'm under the impression that I should learn and hour build for leisure whilst applying to the cadet schemes.

The Class 1 medical is of course a very good idea to obtain first!

KayPam: Thanks, that's exactly what I plan to do and I'm quite looking forward to it :).

FlyANA: Thanks for your confirmation that others have followed a similar path. I am very keen to know more about the Virgin cadet scheme but I'll browse the forum some more before asking direct questions.

I've downloaded a couple of phone apps that cover PPL theory test subjects and so far the majority of what I'm reading is sinking in first time, probably because I find it genuinely interesting. Hopefully a positive sign of things to come :8.

Thanks again.

Realistics
 

Hello Pprune,

Firstly, I'm not going to blabber on about my dream, I would just like some good solid advice on what I can do with my current situation and if you do read all of this I appreciate the time taken out of your day.
I'm 19 years old (20 in august), and Im pondering picking back up the goal of flying for a major airline (and overcoming all the hurtles that come with trying to reach that point).

I hope you excuse me, but just background info on myself. I left Sydney when I was 15 ( a year after my first TIF) to come to a specialty aviation high school in Perth without my parents (which I dropped out of) after passing the entry test with only two incorrect answers of the 35 questions.

I made the choices on my own, I found the school on my own, and I taught myself the knowledge required (could have passed that test at 12) but I'm just trying to show that the determination box is ticked( and I know dropping out may sound otherwise but conflicting situations forced me to and leaving your home at 15 is not an easy task) while hopefully not sounding to obnoxious. Moving on I'm also considering doing an online degree as I do work fulltime and I'm not 100% sure but I'm getting the jist that this is acceptable by the airlines(can anyone confirm who has a job and did an online degree??) I'm currently earning 40k a year and I'm hoping this might just, just be enough to pay for hours on top of living expenses.

The biggest question which will stir up the mix is "Best flight school" now I have no care in the world for what the admins are like,or if the owner has attitude. I just want my hours and an effective instructors in a cheap( I know that won't happen) and timely manner with a school that gets students into airlines. I know as I work full time this could set me back in time but I'm committed to work as hard as possible, and I really don't care about pay or living conditions as long as I can say I've made it. By which time id probably hate it, but I can say it's fulfilled and my life has been lived how I wanted.

Cheers guys

You can get VET-FEE HELP for integrated flight training in Australia now. One of my mates left work last year to attend flight training adelaide and they are fee help approved at last check. Course overall isn't that expensive. If you earn 40k a year, have some savings, family who can spot you, or (like most young blokes back in Australia) have a fuel guzzling insurance nightmare of a car that you can sell you can probably go right on course.

Fee-HELP is under attack at the moment so talk to them early. Im not completely sure whats happening with it.

Would anyone leave a secure 110k job doing something you enjoy with many benefits to take a place on a CTC type scheme?
I'm considering doing just that. Complete with enormous loan, 18 months of no salary and then a massively reduced standard of living from that which I'm used to. Along with 9 years of loan repayments. Am I crazy? Family and friends think so. Early thirties. I won't bang on about how this has always been my dream etc... Thanks guys and good luck to all.