VAT refunds on training (Merged 2011)
 

Does anyone know any good accountants, knowledgeable in aviation who can help me with this?
I live in the London area, based at STN and am looking for a good accountant with knowledge on this matter.
Any help, much appreciated!
J

Is the company a UK airline or a European airline?

If your a self employed contractor then no problem at all. If however you are employed as staff then I think you will struggle.

Its UK airline. I will be employed by them. However I have my own business on top which provides training to pilots and cabin crew where I am self employed.

If you have your own business, don't you have your own accountant?

In general, you should aim for a Chartered or Certified firm of Accountants and there is no real requirement for aviation knowledge as the rules on reclaiming VAT for training are the same across all business sectors.

They will need to know the following:-

Is your business VAT registered?
Does it provide the training itself? And is that flying training of the sort you wish to undertake?
Does you business provide staff on an agency basis?
Is your business a limited company?
Do you pay yourself PAYE, dividends or drawings?

However, from little you've said, I agree with MIKECR in that as an airline employee, you would not be able to reclaim the VAT.

Cheers

Whirls

Jacqueline, I can't really add much more than the others but if you are:

• self employed and have a limited company
• can prove the training is related to your work, i.e. you're not just doing it for fun

Then you should be able to claim the training as a legitimate business expense and effectively not pay income tax.
To reclaim VAT you will need to be registered for VAT and not just the Flat Rate VAT scheme. Assuming you're a one man (sorry woman;)) band you'll probably be on the Flat Rate scheme as it's normally more beneficial for day to day company use if you're not purchasing material/fuel/consumables etc. Speak to a chartered accountant and they should be able to advise.

Can I claim back VAT portion of training or find a school that are exempt
 

With redundancy looming I want to start some form of training.

But because times are hard I don't want to be paying the Treasury 20% VAT for training.

Essentially I would be unemployed and trying to get myself back into work.

I don't think it's fair having to pay £16,500 to the VAT man.

The short answer, midiman, is no. See www.fairplane.org.uk

However, the UK, while not unique, is one of only a few EU countries which levy VAT on all forms of flight training. If you look further afield, such as Spain, flight training is VAT exempt.

Excellent website this is what we need.

It's a fair point and I can't afford to pay £80K towards training.

My age and financial status are against me.

I,ve got a mortgage and bills to pay.

Having the Treasury and Flight Schools cream me of thousands of pounds is sickening.

Flying is only for the wealthy!!

I,m going to send that form to my MP. But it's not going to do be any good at 35.

The less short, but more correct answer, is yes BUT only in certain circumstances where the intention is to be self-employed.

If your career ambition is to be an airline pilot then you will be an employee and not self-employed and tehrefore the VAT will become.

This has been discussed ad infinitum here on pprune. Use Google to search VAT training on site(colon)pprune where (colon) is : symbol.

As for it being fair? That's a political matter but comparing surgeons and pilots is erroneous. You need A levels and a degree to even start traing as a doctor and not all doctors are good enough to be become surgeons. Surgeons save lives; pilots (in the main) enable people to conduct a luxury activity whether it be holiday, business or the transport of goods. :rolleyes:

Even if you do manage to try and reclaim UK VAT I doubt you will be able to reach the registration threshold

I agree with the comparison to Surgeons.

But we still shouldn’t be thrown out to private operators that are making a killing out of us.

I work in a University and you can do a LAW degree for less than £21k. And before the new fee structure came into effect it was £8k!!

Our Students are going crazy about the level of debt that they will sustain.

Now compared to a Pilot think about how much a Solicitor could earn??

Since when did a law degree involve using equipment worth millions?

You can do the piloting theory for less than £2k, not £21k.

And since when did pilot training really cost on avg £80K!!!

I’m pretty sure that if Pilot training came under our educational remit most of these flight schools would have to shutdown.

The buzz in education at the moment is who can do more for less. The private sector are all bidding for our contracts, it creates competition and raises standards.

And when was the last time you heard OAA or Cabair telling you they are going to reduce their fees and throw in some extras. :rolleyes:

Depends what you include in that £80k. Integrated training? Or modular plus type rating? Could be. Helicopter? Most definitely £80k.
Supply and demand .... I bet more 16 year old boys want to be pilots rather than lawyers.

There probably are.

But how many do you think would take it up?

Given the debt to earning ratio?

Hence why the professional LLB Honours qualification would be more attractive and cost effective.

Flight training is only for the rich or the seriously insane at these levels.

We all know airlines are looking to trim their books and the thought of having to pay back the cost of your training while earning less than a Tube Driver is not a good one.

You will need 25yrs service and have to pay a min of £3200pa to recoup your training cost as a Pilot. And a fair portion of that is VAT hence my post.

The overall problem is that being a pilot outside of the military is a luxury profession. On the whole, society can continue with fewer pilots. The whole aviation business is economy driven which law, finance and medicine are not.

Why should flying training be subsidized? It's not as if there are no people who want to become pilots. The above mentioned professions take years of academic study. Not everyone will have the mental capacity to become a lawyer. Being a pilot requires far less academic nouse ... anyone with a few GCSEs and a sense of co-ordination can become a pilot.

There are ways of saving money if you do your research but, whereever you go, flying training is dear. If it was cheap, then there would be even more unemployed low-houred pilots than there are already.

If it's down to a "natural aptitude" in being a pilot, then joing the military would have found that out.

Flight training is expensive because you start off in an aircraft that costs pushing UK£ 60 per hour in fuel alone, never mind the eye watering costs of maintenance using approved organisations and replacement part prices that beggar belief, with an instructor who is not only trying to recoup some of the costs of his/her commercial training but also the additional costs of the instructor rating. Landing fees, handling charges, club membership, medical, security badge charges and so on just rub salt into the wound.

If you think that is expensive, just wait till you get into the realms of multi-engine and instrument training.

All of the foregoing is as cheap as chips compared to type rating costs.

The cost is the only real filter, no great intellectual capability or application is required, but, astonishing as it may seem, enough people find the funds for the system to churn out more pilots every year than the industry requires. As has been observed, the last time the UK had a shortage of pilots was in 1940.

With that background, why on earth should the taxpayer give flight training any kind of subsidy? Its clearly not needed to meet the industry's needs, and as long as a lot more people are doing it than can reasonably be expected to gain employment from it then its understandable if its regarded as a hobby and taxed accordingly.