For UK students - and it has not been mentioned yet - there is always the University Air Squadrons (UAS)...

I like the way everyone recommends joining the UAS as though it is something you just apply to join as a member.

There is reasonable competition for positions in the UAS, also certain minor medical conditions that may not preclude you from holding a class one can prevent you joining the UAS; so you the chances of getting one of the VR non bursar positions is far from guaranteed.

Further to this I understand the UAS have really cut back the flying syllabus in recent years. So the hours obtained form the UAS over 3 years may not be that significant.

Also to add a degree is not a back up, relevant work experience is, so unless you have 5 plus years of post graduate work experience the degree it self isn't that useful.

Has anyone been a part of a UAS? whats it actually like and is it worth the time?

Yes, but 25 years ago, and my only regret is not being mature enough then to take the flying as seriously as I should have done. It's still an important and formative feature of my life now however - and many other people's as evidenced by the incredibly interesting cross-section of aviation that attended the last UAS reunion I went to.

Nowadays it's moved away from the flying with a lot less hours, but more towards adventurous and officer training.

None of which changes my opinion that anybody who is lucky enough to have the option to be in a UAS, would be a fool not to fully participate.

But, as PHF said very clearly - they will decide if you're a member, not you. You can only apply and do your best.

If you want to do a technical degree, yes, you need Maths A level, and a B in maths GCSE should not prevent that. It sounds like you are up against a fairly classic conflict - between you shooting for the course and grades for your desired degree course, and your school shooting for the best place in the league tables.

In my opinion, if your school is putting their place in the league tables ahead of your career aspirations, then there's a problem. The first solution is go back to them and argue the case why you should be permitted to do A level maths. If you lose the argument, then frankly, they aren't what you need, and jump ship.

Which gives you two choices. One is to do the extra A-level elsewhere, most likely in evening classes: that option is perfectly reasonable and should be open to you in most parts of the UK. The other is simply to leave and study somewhere that will allow you to take the courses that you want and need.

A school DOES NOT have the moral right, and should not have the legal right, to jeapordise your career in pursuit of their position of a higher place in the league tables.


That said, the majority of professional pilot jobs don't actually require a degree, and as PHF rightly said, it's not a job backup, so think hard about why you want it. If you are still convinced that you really want that technical degree, then don't let the school bully you into doing the wrong thing for yourself.

importance of a degree
 

Hello.
I'm 15 and currently doing my ppl. Everybody I've spoken to has suggested that I get a degree after school and then continue with my piloting career, but my question is: how influential will a degree be when I'm, hopefully, looking for an airline job someday?
Some people answer that without a degree it will be nearly impossible to fly internationally and others give the age old answer of- it'll give you something to fall back on if things don't work out... I would just like to know your opinion on how valuable a degree is and what experienced pilots recommend. I would most likely look towards aerospace or civil engineering in terms of a degree.

Thank you in advance!

Forget "fall back on". That's a poor phrase.
Instead think of it this way.
Companies like people with "real world" knowledge and experience, not "kids" just out of high school (secondary school) with a "few" hours of flying experience.
So, having a degree will be an advantage in the job search.
But you may also find that you like doing that rather than flying.
And, with the job market the way it is, you might be more likely to find a job you like doing something related to your degree than a flying job that pays any where near the same amount.
In the case where you get a job that's not flying, you'll be able to fly on the weekends and truly enjoy the flying.
If you get a job that is flying, then you'll be more likely to get a "good paying" job with a degree than without one.
Instead of "fall back" think of it giving you options.

Thank you darkroomsource.
Makes sense and it's great to have another opinion.

Nearly impossible to fly internationally? Nonsense! A degree is more of a factor in the US, as it is with almost any trade over there.

If I wanted something to fall back on, plumbing would make way more money than any job that requires a degree :)

I would certainly have another trade under my belt, but it wouldn't necessarily involve a degree.

Anyone else have any insights/advice?
All replies welcome!

The USA and a few parts of the far/middle east like airline pilots to have a degree. They really don't care what the degree is in, or how good.

There are some specialist jobs where a degree, preferably a technical degree, are of significant value to you. They are flight test, and a lot of armed services: a very large proportion of military pilots have good degrees. Those aiming for management pilot positions in the airlines do well do to a management degree of some form.

In Europe, nobody cares if you have a degree if you are *only* a civilian pilot - it's all about your flying qualifications, experience and reputation - anything else is unimportant here (actually once you have the job, the same's true in the USA as well). Where you fly for a European airline is completely irrelevant - if you have an EASA licence, and you're flying a European registered aeroplane, you can fly anywhere in the world and nobody will care about your educational background.



As I've said on here a few times, I am one of those oddballs who have professional engineering AND flying qualifications. That has opened the way to some fantastic jobs, but they're all very nonstandard. That suits me - I would hate to either fly the standard scheduled routes, or do a conventional design office engineering job. Many people however are much happier in the mainstream.



In most cases, Paco is right that it's not a backup. The exception, maybe, is that if you did an aero-eng degree, then time flying would be regarded by most recruiters as valuable industry experience. Any other degree, probably not.

A real backup would be something that allows you to earn money quickly - short order chef, plumber, personal trainer... But that may not suit your personal ambitions, which is fair enough.

Degree or any other vocational degree as Back Up doesnt bring you very far in case you cannot find a job. Companies see your F ATPL and know that you will be gone whenever the chance pops up to continue flying. Why would they take you then?

When I was applying for non aviation jobs, I was asked this question. What would you do if you get the chance to get pilot job? You would be a really good liar if you could say without a blink of an eye that you will say NO to that pilot job.

Only possibility is to get ground handling job at airport. And via that way get in contact with maybe an chief pilot of some airline.

Why on earth, then, would you put the fATPL on your CV for that (non-airline) job?

Why on eart on CV? For the simple reason that otherwise you have a 1,5 - 2yr gap where you did your training.

With what should I fill that up? Travelling? Then inteviewer? Where have you been? What have you seen? I am a pilot. Not an actor. And I hate to lie. Because interviewers are smart. They pinch you immediately.

Much better to actually go and work for the 3 or 4 years it would take you to complete your degree, and save enough money to buy your pilot licence without taking on debt. That is worth absolute gold. And will impress most airline employers just as much in the interview, if you explain your reasoning

That's only a problem if you did the training full time.

Depends what your degree is in as well.

Most subjects need you to have worked 3-5 years after graduation for you to be useful anyway.

Pharmacist and opticians seem to have a short work up and plenty of locum work which is paid well.

Yes I did integrated. So in that case it is hard to explain. And what you say mad, to get a job on higher position you need the most hated word EXPERIENCE. Same as in aviation.
But how to get experience if your dont get the chance to obtain experience?
Only thing to do is to accept a much lower position. But then still the question, WHY would we take YOU while knowing that you will go away as soon as you get the chance to take the RHS? I applied even for very low jobs where you dont need education, but then you got answer, you are over educated.

Myself I did integrated training for the costs of Modular but have Integrated on my CV for what its worth.

Just my experience.

But, I have a masters 1st class aeronautical engineering.

Post flight training ended up flying 3 years in light twins (freelance, where I worked part time making use of my university degree to fund poor salary), now 3 years regional turbo props (which I absolutely love)

Have applied many times for easy, aer lingus, jet 2. No interview.

So in my opinion the degree has not helped my flying career, however some might say I have been very fortunate in getting where I have. The degree might help with the sort of jobs that value life experience. But if a jet is where you want to end up... Luck and the right integrated school, and LOTS of money open doors.

Due to the financial implications of university these days, make your own decisions. I found my wife my friends, lifestyle through sport at university. So very glad I went. Plus I funded most of my training with my career post uni. However didn't have to pay fees.

At 15yr old, I suggest you make the most of school. Work, get good grades, get involved in sport, or extra curricular option that enhances a CV. Open doors to your future. Don't make decisions now that limit options.

Pretty much nothing and I completed Modular in 13 months.

its a bit strange because all my life I have taken jobs to fill in between jobs never had a problem with being degree qualified etc.

I have a C+E lorry license which always allowed me to pick up work as and when required. I suspect even after 14 years not going near them I could phone up a couple of the operators in Aberdeen and start work tomorrow. Although I believe you have to do some theory training these days you can't just jump in a 45 tonner after not driving one for a couple of years and head off like you used to (no bad thing in my opinion)

I am sure Grant in Driver Hire Aberdeen would have me out on the streets the next day as well.

Degree qualified mates work in fields every year inspecting crops.

2 of them used to dig graves.

most shy away from the dirty jobs in life, me I love them, they usually pay very well and nobody cares about you apart from you turn up everyday on time and you will put in over time if required.

I am a firm believer in generating your own luck. If you have a hunger and you want to do something and put some effort in luck happens. Same with looking for work. Don't mind swinging a sledge hammer and bending you back shovelling ****e you will get work. You might only do it for a few weeks when something else turns up because you have been seen to shovel ****e with a smile. Well that's the way it seems to have worked for me through my life.

Myself I am not to arrogant to do ****ty jobs. I also applied to work in a factory. I dont care what kind of work I have to do. As long as I dont have to hold up my hands to get state allowances.

Now I am working as FA in an growing company. Lately an Purser is hired as FO in this airline. Will start to do his TR next month. And the nice thing is, we dont have to pay for our rating and the salary is actually pretty good.

As you say Mad Jock. Absolutely true. If you are willing to work hard and open to do anything to work, then you will find your luck.

For me I hope this will be my lucky shot and make a great start in my carreer as a pilot in this company.

And you will be a far better pilot/manager for having experience working as a FA.

Good for you and I hope it works out for you.

Just to add my few pence worth to this thread.

Like probably many others (I use that phrase loosely) - I have an undergraduate and postgraduate degree behind me. Whilst a student I pretty much couldn't afford anything, let alone afford to learn to fly "off my own back".

Did it help me?!

Well apart from being seen as "educated" which in my culture is seen as being negatively portrayed if you do not have a degree but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that those without a degree are not successful and in fact a few people I know have gone on to become millionaires through luck and grafting having the balls to shun both college and university.

University will give you opportunities to experience a life which is set around people of similar mindset's to you. As already pointed out getting involved in extra curricular activities such as the annual trek to Nepal, raising money for the charity during the annual "RAG" week or even joining an "Air Squadron" and having some fun at the same time! Meeting people and opening your mind to new experiences and making friends along the way.

What it did do for me though.. is allow me to target openings to firm's that allowed me to skill up in technology and cut loose as a Contractor which has pretty much allowed me to travel and see the world.. and paid for the first stage of my license!

Throughout university I worked as a Bus Driver with a PSV License.. whilst friends flipped burgers in McDonalds or did other jobs.. I loved the feel of being out driving around as a 20 year old and iit paid for "tuition" and I got comfortable.

Even now I could walk into a PSV Operation and work part time if I needed.. The license like flying will be there for life (subject to Medical).

Use university as a "stepping stone" to a different chapter.. but the comments about it not allowing you to fly internationally or fly at all for that matter are nonsense!

If I can add my $0.02, I've just finished my second year of a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science. My instructor told me about a student who got his CPL - that is, with no degree - at 19, and the week after obtaining his CPL, was working up in North Queensland.

My pathway is to hold both a CPL and an MECIR, as well as my BA, by the end of 2016, by which time I'll be 22.

The way I see it, if nothing else, a degree will show dedication to the completion of a task, and I think CFIs will take this into account. Not to mention I've really enjoyed my two years so far.

In Oz, at least, while a degree isn't required to work in the airlines, it's common knowledge that an airline like Qantas (if they're even around when it's time for me to apply for the airlines) wants their pilots to have a formal education outside aviation.

Aspirant pilot needs advice :)
 

Hey guys,
New to this, and although it has been asked before i managed to not find anything in one place, so will ask everything here. Apologies if i wind you up with questions in a period where everyone deserves relax.

1) I'm finishing my 'A Levels' here in the UK, but I'm undecided if i should go to a university in USA to study pilot studies where after 4 years you become a pilot with all the licenses, or should i go for the modular route and complete my PPL in the USA (EASA) and then Oxford to do ATPL/CPL.

2) Will it be worth going to a USA university to complete my pilot training or shall i do it pay as you go from private pilot training schools?

3) Which are the best unis, apart from ERAU and EDU that do the pilot training course? People told me to call them but upon calling them, they said they do some type of Aeronautical Science which allows you to be a pilot (??) - If you think private pilot schools, which one is the most reliable and can vouch for to get my PPL?

4) I've got offers from top Law schools in the UK (I applied to do Law in uni), such as Durham, UCL. But will it be worth it to spend 3 years doing Law undergraduate and then spend another year or two to finish off my pilot training? By the time i'll be a pilot i'll be close to 23-24. I know it's not related but i had interest in Law before i fancied a career in Aviation.

Thanks in advance peeps and merry Xmas :)

Aspirant pilot needs advice :)
 

With the market as it is, I would get my law degree and fly as a hobby.

Sorry to be the first and to be so negative.

I do wish you the best in whatever choice you subsequently make however, and a merry Christmas and a prosperous new year to you.

Aspirant pilot needs advice :)
 

My advice would be to go and get your law degree. Fly as a hobby in the meantime and get a feel for the industry.

After you have got your law degree make another informed decision on the merits of gaining an ATPL.


Good luck.

Thanks guys, negative is better, at least i know what's going on :)

My main question tho, is should i do the pilot training in an American university spending 4 years (which i heard airlines like it, doing it as a unit degree) or should i go and follow my friends, and do it PAYasYouGo?(which i heard Airlines don't like it very much because it has not been done in one go. They've done PPL and hour building in USA, ATPL and CPL at Oxford.

Merry XMas eveyone and have a wonderful new year!

University vs Pilot School HELP PLEASE!
 

Hi everyone,

My name is Isaac and I am currently sudying British Secondary Education in Spain. My dream is to become a professional pilot.

My big doubt is weather I should go straight to somewhare like CTC, or maybe study Aerospace Engineering with Pilot Studies. I quite like the second option, because I have something to fall back on, but my priority is becomeing a pilot and I don't want to spend 3 years at uni to then have to spend another 2 in a pilot school while acummulating debt and not having a job.

Go to Uni
 

Isaac go to Uni first! The experience will bring you more maturity and personality, and before embarking in any kind of flight training do a PPL because maybe you will realise that flying is not what you had thought at the beginning!

Buenos vuelos!

Hello boys and girls! I'm new to the forum and I see that questions like these have been answered before but my situation is a little different so I'll try here.
I am 22 years old and I'm just about to graduate from University with a degree in economics. As a Private Pilot I have decided that I want to pursue a career as a commercial pilot. Now, my goal is to get through the training and work my way up to an Airline which nowadays is not a peace of a cake anymore. But, in the future, even if chances are slim, I would perhaps want to be able to take my career to another level by becoming a civil test pilot, becoming a consultant or many of the other roads a civilian pilot could follow. I know that a technical degree is beneficial if you are aiming towards these things but I am not sure if I really want to study 3 or 5 more years pursuing a engineering degree or the like just for the fun of learning and getting the degree. So I am in need of some advice. Is it worth pursuing it with the potential benefits for my flying career or is it best just to start flying which is my passion.

Thanks!

Thank you
 

:) Thanks a lot, really appreciate the advice EC DKN!

I had the choice of continuing with education, but after A Levels, I was well settled with the idea of going straight into training. Best decision I ever made, younger the better

Not another uni thread!
 

Hey guys, so first off this isn't really a "should I or shouldn't I go to uni" thread, it's a smidge different and I was hoping to get your viewpoints.
So I did my schooling in Canada, where we don't have GCSEs and A Levels. I did an equivalency through NARIC and all I really got out of it was a certificate that said I have a "GCSE level of education" - nothing specific. Now, I'm already planning on going to uni through long-distance education either through the Open University or University of London's program. My question boils down to this: Will (generally speaking, because I know there are a ton of factors that go into this) an airline prefer that I do A Levels, or even upgrade my GCSEs, or would being enrolled and studying at a university be more beneficial and I wouldn't really need to bother with A Levels?


Cheers

As far as my knowledge about the uk academy qualifications are, I am quite sure you can't enroll into an uni degree without having A-levels. Just for curiosity, does your actual level of education allows you to step directly into uni in Canada? If yes the best option might be to get a degree in Canada and then move to uk. Even so the actual hiring situation in EU is very bad and in my opinion, you should stay and get your license as well as start your career there. It's far cheaper and there are more chance to find a job than EU. Think twice before moving and if you have already done it, go back in Canada if you want a proper job without paying for any single rating or even for a job. Anyway gcses are required to start an atpl course, but obviously good A-levels or even a uni degree looks better in a CV.

Thanks for the insight

Uni advice
 

Hi all,
I am 18, almost 19 years old and am studying management at university here in England, however it has always been my ambition to become a pilot, preferably working for an airline. Apart from piloting, no other job seems interesting to me, and my course is getting ridiculously boring, as I have been there for about 5 months and am yet to find a bit of what I am doing that I would want to work in, I feel any job related to management isn't for me, and I find it very tedious, however all of my friends doing the course all love it, which must mean I should enjoy some aspect a little in theory? However it almost scares me that this could be my future. I am at university as my dad was reluctant to help fund my flying due to no guarantee of a job once id gained the sufficient licences and hours, and wants me to get a backup. After looking at many university courses I found none that stood out, so I chose one focusing on management and it, thinking I would like some aspect enough to want a job in the sector, however it has just reaffirmed to me the fact that the job I truly have a passion to attain has no equal, and a job in management or it would not be for me, especially after being in many offices and seeing the day to day life of someone in a similar role, I have absolutely no interest, that and the fact that I will amass a debt in the tens of thousands if I continue. I understand fully that my dad wants me to have a backup plan in place in the event I cannot fly any longer, however a related job, such as a pilot not working for an airline working charter flights, or working as an ATC actually interest me. And if I couldn't find a job inside aviation, something more physical and practical, such as working in public services, such as in the police, as a coast guard, firefighter etc. would make me much happier than a job related to the subjects I am specialising in at university. I have another 3 years at university however completing this degree, to me, seems a waste of time as I would look for a job outside of related fields in order to be happy, as I feel that while money is somewhat important, what is the point in spending the majority of your life doing something you borderline detest? I am just looking for some guidance and I thank you all for reading.

What are the realistic chances of me securing a job as aircrew in the FAA?
 

Okay, so I know the question in the title is a bit of a broad one, but let me explain.

I have offers from universities to study music production at degree level. I applied to university as I didn't want to risk failing to land a place elsewhere and being stuck at home after my A levels. Since recieving my offers I have been speaking with old friends of mine who have since applied to the military, and annoyingly it has reignited my initial dreams of being aircrew in the military. For various reasons I have always wanted to be a pilot, however due to my not 20/20 vision, the RAF never really posed as a choice, and for that reason I looked into the Navy and for a long while I was set on joining. My dilemma is that although I have heard about how great an officer career in the Navy can be - I don't see myself sticking out a job in Warfare or anything other than aircrew for that matter. Realistically, If I was to get through FAT's, the AIB and all the medicals etc, how is the current situation on drafts for the FAA and do I stand any chance of becoming a pilot? I am very lucky to recieve the offers I did from university, but I would happily sacrifice that place if there was a fair chance I could land a place at BRNC.
I know you can't answer for certain, but I suppose I'm basically asking is if the RN are taking on pilots?
Sorry for the lengthy question, and thank you in advance for any responses.

What to do, work and save or College.
 

Hey all,
Thought i would put up a thread on my position on deciding whether to go to college, stay in my full time job with decent pay, save up for the next while and fund an Integrated ATPL course.

Im 26 now, I have a few hours logged so far doing PPL. I am currently employed the last 9 years. I still have the position for the next 11 years all going well if i want. What I was thinking was leaving next year to go to UNI to do a degree. At that stage if i graduated i would be 30-31 years of age. In between that and now I will be applying for Aer Lingus cadetship, which is quite hard to get a place. I have the level of education required to apply so why not, but previous cadets that were chosen had graduated with impressive degrees etc.

So this had me thinking. Having the military behind me and other things could stand to me i dont know, but i will find out.
Would saving for the next while be the right move, as I could shoot myself in the foot leaving a full time position, go to uni with no money for the next few years but yet i could be saving for that time in work? Possibly do a part time course in the evenings, I doubt i will be overseas for the next while so could be an option.
What would some people do in my position?
I know this thread should probably be for a careers advisor lol but anyway, someone might have done this, the advice i need could be here, or ideas.
Little long but just looking to see other thoughts. Thanks:ok:

Just a question,
You go to uni, gain a degree and start flying training. You get a job with a very good airline on decent Ts and Cs.

Unfortunately at 45 you lose your med cat and therefore cannot continue as a pilot.

Exactly how is the degree you have going to help you? It was completed 22 years ago and you are no more qualified and less current than all of the recent graduates in said field. You have also demonstrated that you would rather do something else than employed in that role.

I read a lot here about " something to fall back on " and it may well be exactly that but in many cases it wont be.

Im not trying to burst any bubbles here I just want people to make the most informed decision.

I meet many people who due lack of knowledge are making or have made the wrong decision.

Need advise on the path to becoming a Pilot (for an airline)?
 

Hi PPruNe

I'm currently pursuing my BEng in Aeronautical Engineering. (note: By the time I finish my degree I would be 23 y/o.) After which I plan to undergo pilot training.

However, I want tocomplete a masters in Air Transport Management (1 year) or Airport Planning and Management (1 year) from Cranfield University after my BEng.

My question is, should I directly pursue pilot training after my degree is over? or should I complete my masters before pursuing pilot training? If I do the latter I would be 25 y/o by the time I begin pilot training... feel as though that would put me at a disadvantage when applying to become a starting first officer.

My eventual career goal is to be in a high level management position of an airline while also being a pilot.

Looking forward to some thorough advise. Thank you.