The right path.. Stapleford? OAA?
 

Hi,
I am currently in the process of searching for a valuable flight school. I've really been looking at Stapleford Flight Centre as a strong option as it's within close proximity to my house and it is reasonably priced too. Also, it's had some very decent ratings on forums.

Does anyone have any constructive advice to give about stapleford in terms of job prospects, value for money, quality of training, etc.

I've also been looking at Oxford, and am considering their integrated FO programme - but it is approximately 30k more than stapleford for the same qualification. I'm also working for BAE Systems on their graduate programme so I am a bit reluctant to leave.

Is it really worth spending the extra 30k on oxford??

Any advice would be very much appreciated. I'm really worried about spending all the money training and then not getting a job afterwards so really want to make the right choice.

Nope and its more than that if you take into account the fact you already have accom next to stapleford. You are basically saving a type rating by not going there.

Keep with your graduate prog as long as you can and keep the money coming in. Then pace yourself that when things pick up again you can ditch the job, complete the training and come onto the market current and ready to go.

No.







.

Yes I did actually and I was also included in that years statistics for those who got a job from Oxford.

Never flew a plane with them mind just did distance theory course. And to be honest I prefer the OAA theory notes to Bristol Grounds Schools :p. and also think the distance learning course is reasonable value for money.

Yes, it's worth it.
PM me if you wish.. not going to post my life story on here though.

Getting into the mindset of accepting a TR before even completing training is destroying the industry. And no, it's not the only way in.
Integrated has had its time. High costs with employment success almost exactly the same as modular do not justify it. At least with modular you can keep the cost down and keep it fun, after all, that's what it's about, right?

Davidflies, alot what you have said is complete :mad:

Rubbish, I have kept a complete log of my costs from flight training, food and even down to small costs of stationary. My total costs up until MCC/JOC will be around £52,000 and this will include every expense I will encounter and all of my training will have been done at Stapleford.

Complete rubbish, I know lots of people who have gone through Oxford Aviation and majority of them are on their way to Ryanair. The integrated calibre rubbish is almost non existant since 2008 and I can tell you of at least 3 people who were left on their own jacks after graduating. And they had very good ground scool and flight training reports.

£85,000 which is about the right figure for training, accomodation and food during the course and another £25,000 for the type rating is what you'll be paying if you end up at Ryanair. And, at the moment that is where nearly all Graduates are finding jobs with the odd few going down the EasyFlex route which is so bad i'm not even gonna talk about it. You can search the forums and find out what a great deal it is :ugh:.

So let's compare, £77,000 at Stapleford and £110,000 at Oxford Aviation. That's a difference of £33,000 .

I have yet to come across someone who has been asked at interview whether he/she wore a uniform at his/her flying school.

The atmosphere is purposly made that way at Stapleford and many other modular schools so Students are relaxed and at feel at ease during training. It has nothing to do with professionalism, CPL and IR pass rates show professsionalism and Stapleford have one of the best in the country.

Some people are obsessed by uniform and stripes on the shoulders.... Why pay £33000 more to have the same license and apply for the same jobs?

"Getting into the mindset of accepting a TR before even completing training is destroying the industry"

I totally agree with The Flying Chicken... if some people doesn't give :mad: in paying £30K £40K more for their training why wouldn't the airlines make pilots pay for their own TR?

You could go buy a fine pilot's uniform from Saville Row, and you're own plane for the extra £33,000... :ugh:

In a depressed market I continue to advocate modular training, conducted within commuting distance to home, at a small well established school, whilst keeping your current employment. Either that or get into CTC as they have managed to place all their cadets despite erratic demand.

If money is no object then sure, got to Jerez, join a course and bond as a team of great mates, enjoy the sunshine and have a blast and get a CPL/IR ATPL. Or do the same in Kiddlington with slightly more drizzle. It is easier because you have the support of being on a course of 8 other people all going through the same thing.

The stripes, aircraft paint jobs and promises of post-course career help should all be ignored.

Personally I think the best way into BA (often the ultimate aspiration hereabouts) is to train cheaply, have enough cash to pay for the Ryanair type rating, get into Ryanair, get six months B737NG in the logbook and then pass the BA selection. If you fail then Doha, Dubai or Abu Dhabi beckon six months later.

Its a better plan than hoping your excellent training reports and first time passes from a premier flight training academy of excellence will land you a job..


WWW

I wish there was a "like" function such as on Face-book for WWW comments.
It's probably the cheapest, quickest and most reliable way to get into a carrier like that.

Right,

Thanks all for the comments.

I drove over to Oxford on Friday and met with Mike Griffiths, Brand manager. He was very helpful indeed, seemed to be quite unbiased and weighed up the positives and negatives or Oxford. The only negative really seemed like the price. He said that if you can fork out £120k for an integrated course including a TR (£87k for course, £35k ish for TR), you are pretty much guaranteed to be placed with an airline. However, to me it didn't really make sense to me as a business model - spending £120k and then starting at £35-40k.

He also mentioned an interesting point that other people may have a different outlook on:
- Easyjet, BA and other major airlines will NOT take any modular students, this is a black and white rule with no discrepancy.


I also visited Bonus Aviation in Cranfield and on the whole, it seemed like quite a friendly school but their facilities seemed a bit 'outdated', just a few porter cabins with no glass cockpit aircraft, hence it seemed a bit pointless as it's quite far from home.

Stapleford is looking like the best option. I could get a CPL with M/E, IR and night for minimum £45k but I'm budgeting for £50k, and then around £20-25k for a type rating on 737, 320 etc. That's still saving around £35k from OAA, it seems like OAA is the best place to study when money is no object, but if you think of it as an investment and think about ROIs, does it make sense??

Hence, Stapleford at the moment seems like the best option??? Right?

I'm not too fussed about not wearing a uniform all the time, in fact I prefer being casual and feeling more comfortable when LEARNING how to fly; I've got all my life to be wearing a suit and gold stripes.

Helpful, friendly and unbiased. OK. Have you ever bought a used car?

The only negative seemed like the price. OK. What about the airspace restrictions, the NDB or the student/airframe ratio? Pretty much guaranteed to be placed with an airlines? Did he say those words or are you paraphrasing?

easyJet mostly take CTC students with a smattering of OAA recently. RYR don't give a toss. The others aren't hiring ab initios.

Bonus is where I did my CPL and my FI rating. Cheap, grotty portacabins and tired looking aircraft. Cheap first time passes. Pay your money, take your choices.

Good for you for looking around at least. Its more than some do.


WWW

AN oxymoron, like Fun Run or Military Intelligence. :E

Cheers

Whirls

Yes I have bought a used car, and many of them.

Oxford is clearly a sensitive subject. Yes, he did say that and no I'm not paraphrasing -
" If you can afford to pay for a type rating after qualifying, I dare say we would PRETTY MUCH guarantee that we will be able to place you with an airline".

Bonus seemed very similar to Stapleford, but it seems pointless to move out when there is a SLIGHTLY better option closer to home

Thanks for all your advice, WWW.

'He also mentioned an interesting point that other people may have a different outlook on:
- Easyjet, BA and other major airlines will NOT take any modular students, this is a black and white rule with no discrepancy.'

I personally know several modular OAA graduates who in the last 6 months started flying with easyJet on Parc contracts.
Having graduated from OAA they did a self sponsored A320 TR without any help or intervention from OAA and then by registering with Parc they got invited to an assessment day down at Burgess Hill with easyJet where they completed and interview, written technical test and finally a sim assessment in one of the CAE A320 sims.
At no point were easyJet staff interested in their modular or integrated background only that they had a TR and how well they did on the day.
I believe that OAA run an APP First Officer Plus program which is a way in to a possible assessment by easyJet and an add on to their APP First Officer integrated course. OAA will only put forward their integrated students for this course even if they have oustanding modular students available. This is more to do with OAA pushing integrated training than the likes of easyJet demanding it, it in my opinion, and of course integrated training is far more profitable for them.
I also know of many ex OAA modular students on contract with Ryanair and some have even said that Ryanair seem to prefer modular grads.
As has been mentioned many times, if you want to fly with BA, go to easyJet or Ryanair, get some hours and a good record and apply to BA who at this point don't care about your modular background.

indi1988, were you also advised to stay away from Pprune by any chance?

I know someone who went through OAA a few of years ago. Managed to get on assessment at BA, but failed this stage. Not sure if any of the OAA ab-initios actually got through. Said person now at FR after forking out for TR, last i knew was hoping to re-apply at BA when the opportunity arises. Some course mates still unemployed now or back in previous careers.

It seems that the main openings for 250 hour guys is FR at a cost. As far as i know they dont discriminate between modular and intergrated?? Once you've got the relevant experience does it even matter how or where you trained?

£70000…. You must be crazy my training at stapleford came nowhere near to that amount,
The bar will stay open as late as you want it to, providing there are people in the bar buying drinks
Correct, your in the middle of nowhere, BUT you do have a student car, approx. 5 minutes away is a tescos, shops, pubs, ETC.
Also students have cars at stapleford, you there are daily trips to Epping.
I agree that students wear anything to lessons, When I started my CPL/ME/IR I was always dressed in black trousers and a white shirt, and so was most of the other students of whom I trained with.
I really enjoyed my time at Stapleford, The staff are amazing, well run courses, if you have a problem of any kind Lisa will sort it. (theres no doubt about that) .
MONEY WELL SPENT

£70k was the cost I had in mind if I had to fund my own type rating as well.
But I was forecasting around £50k for a FATPL.
How did you find the school? If you don't mind me asking, have you had any luck getting placed with an airline or did you have many problems looking for placements?

I really enjoyed my time there, I finished in October and just been called up for a ryanair interview :ok: