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-   Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies-14/)
-   -   M1 Visa or no Visa and SEVIS approved schools in the USA (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/418519-m1-visa-no-visa-sevis-approved-schools-usa.html)

sonsal 2nd Jun 2011 17:11

thankyou for the clarification, however i am still confused because flight school is saying that i dont need a new visa, they are saying that they will issue a Fresh I-20 for M-1 visa and as my visa on my passport is stamped till 2014 so it should not be a problem.....
Whats your take on it.....

corpus callosum 2nd Jun 2011 18:38

I Hold both FAA and JAA tickets already so I would not be getting a new FAA cert.

And its it a 12,500 lb MTOW not 1 lb over.


Peter PanPan 25th Jul 2011 21:02

TSA Category 3 Rotorcraft Requirements
Hey everyone, quick question about TSA requirements, I just came across the following note:

"Note: Category 3 Rotorcraft Requirements - Candidates who seek flight training in the operation of rotorcraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less are subject to the above Category 3 clarification. Candidates must obtain approval for the initial license, instrument rating or multi-engine rating if the pilot does not hold a fixed-wing equivalent"

If I were to look into getting a ME add-on rating on the fixed wing side, does the above note mean that the fact that I already have Multi-Engine experience on the Rotary side exempts me from having to request a TSA clearance again? It is somewhat confusing since a ME class rating for Helicopters doesn't exist on the FAA side. It's getting late and I am tired, I need a quick answer and highly appreciate anyone's help on this easy one :)

Peter PanPan 30th Jul 2011 14:36

Thanks SoCal, you are always so helpful :ok:

mohamad haziq 3rd Aug 2011 07:23

Casa to jaa
hi guys,
i'm new here,i need info on how to convert my casa australian license to jaa american license.......your help will be appreciated

zondaracer 3rd Aug 2011 10:02

Hey Mohamad, welcome.

I will tell you how to convert to an ¨American¨ JAA license as soon an American country (see thread under North America, hehe) joins the JAA.

Do you want an FAA license (US issue)? or a JAA (European issue) license?

B2N2 3rd Aug 2011 13:01

This thread has been doing perfectly fine without me, thanks to SoCal but let's not pollute it with questions that are not related to flight training on an M-1 visa.

cessna310 10th Aug 2011 17:03

USA visa

I am(UK citizen) planning to go for 737 type rating to US.Do i need to get M1 visa or TSA approval? What is the procedure?Any help greatly appreciated.


odim 1st Sep 2011 05:55

Quick Question
Hi Everyone, hope everyone is doing great!

i have a question and needed some advice:

im a foreigner getting my IR/CPL/MEL, with an M-1 Visa and have tsa approval to the flight school, i'm thinking about switching to another school because where i'm at currently has alot of issues with they're instructors and airplanes, i've contacted TSA and they said i can apply for another TSA for a different flight school.

My question is, if i get approved for the NEW TSA at the NEW School and my old school cancels my previous TSA And visa, will my NEW TSA Still be valid?

i hope my question is not confusing.. :ugh:

odim 1st Sep 2011 05:58

Regarding the person who asked about Phoenix East Aviation:

i would NOT even think about applying there, i have heard MANY MANY stories about how they rob you and cause alot of issues for students, especially foreigners.

you can pm me if you want more details.

B2N2 1st Sep 2011 12:44

The school is required to transfer you in SEVIS if you request it.

odim 1st Sep 2011 18:07

oh, i was not aware of that, i was told by many people that if the school even thinks that i might be going to another flight school, they cancel my visa.

I just would like to know, if my new TSA Has been approved, can i continue training and do a checkride even if my old school cancelled my visa? Reason i'm asking is because i'm 1-2 flights away from my IR Checkride, so it would not take long to do that.

odim 2nd Sep 2011 01:00

Thanks for clarifying that.

just a small update, i called the immigration office ( visa section to be specific ) and explained to them my situation, and the reply i got was this:

as long as you're NEW TSA is approved and valid, you can continue to fly and take the check-ride EVEN IF you're visa gets cancelled, because i have a grace period of 30 days to leave the country once the school cancels you're visa.

i'm just trying to be sure that information is correct and or/ i asked and received the answer to my question, because really, it shouldn't take me more than 2 weeks to complete my flying and do the check rides.

What do you think about that?

Also, what reasons would TSA Not approve a new TSA Application? and how long do they usually take? i've checked the status of it and it states " documentation accepted "

odim 2nd Sep 2011 02:22

oh ... they're been causing me way too many problems, already spent at least 3x the ammount i was quoted so i dont want any more delays and shed out more money.

so bottom line is, EVEN if my new TSA Request is approved, and the school cancels my existing visa, the new TSA will be cancelled > can't fly?

odim 2nd Sep 2011 05:47

No i haven't, actually.. which is why i'm here to ask what options and see " experts " opinions are.

I've gotten my answer, thanks for the help.

rudds 6th Sep 2011 16:09

Help please, still confused
Sorry but after reading this i'm still confused, i have a FAA CPL IR and JAA CPL MEP IR. I would like to upgrade to FAA ATP and MEP, check ride only although i may a couple of hours familirisation in the Seminole. I have TSA clearance, will i need the M1 visa or can i go with the visa waiver program?
Many thanks in advance

Islandcrazy 8th Nov 2011 22:18

I hope I havent missed this in reading through the previous posts. I dont think it has come up. There are some great posts with useful information so far.

What about Add-Ons? Assuming of course the full-time course of study to meet the minimum requirements of 50 hours for the certificate?

M1 Visa and TSA required for non-USA citizen?


Cranebill 3rd Dec 2011 19:28

Student visa requirement
That's not correct. Enrollment is a SEVIS approved school is only necessary for students enrolling in a full time course of training. Travelers visiting the US from other countries that participate in flight training, but did not come to the US specifically for that purpose are allowed to train less than 18 hours per week.

Gomrath 3rd Dec 2011 21:04

Originally Posted by Cranebill
Enrollment is a SEVIS approved school is only necessary for students enrolling in a full time course of training. Travelers visiting the US from other countries that participate in flight training, but did not come to the US specifically for that purpose are allowed to train less than 18 hours per week.

That is an old wives tail and incorrect - and is often put around by Part 61 Schools who have not completed Part 141 status and therefore are not SEVIS approved for the issue of I-20's.
The ruling states that if you attend the US for a course of study...
The ruling then defines what a course of study is - for vocational training - something that leads to a certification.
Then goes on to say that you cannot undertake that course of study under the visa waiver.
Go look it up. It even cites Flight Training specifically.
I would point you to page 2 first bullet point


selfin 4th Dec 2011 16:38

While the DOJ memorandum references 8 CFR 248.1(c), which since 12th April 2002 has prohibited persons admitted to the US under a B-class visa from undertaking a course of study (at an approved school) without first applying for a change of nonimmigrant classification, it fails to address the definition of "full course of study" used in INA(15)(M) establishing the M-class visa.

The definition of "full course of study" is made at 8 CFR 214.2(m) (FDsys PDF link)

pp 343–345 of the linked extract:


(m) Students in established vocational
or other recognized nonacademic institutions, other than in language training


(9) Full course of study. Successful
completion of the course of study must
lead to the attainment of a specific
educational or vocational objective. A
‘‘full course of study’’ as required by
section 101(a)(15)(M)(i) of the Act
(i) ...

(ii) ...

(iii) Study in a vocational or other
nonacademic curriculum, other than in
a language training program except as
provided in § 214.3(a)(2)(iv), certified by
a designated school official to consist
of at least eighteen clock hours of
attendance a week if the dominant part
of the course of study consists of classroom
instruction, or at least twenty-two clock
hours a week if the dominant
part of the course of study consists of
shop or laboratory work
; or

(iv) ...

This raises the fairly obvious question of how aliens are supposed to lawfully seek admission to the US for short courses of study falling below this threshold?

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