Marketing Scam Alert!!!!
 

Right here in the UK!!! Thanks for the previous threads guys!

I've done my research... And "integrated Modular" is a cruel con!!

It doesn't actually exist, BCFT have lied to us all, the concept is a swizz!

Marketing rubbish. Full marks to them, but they shall get none of my money, watch this FTO very carefully!

The huge fleet.. is actually 5 aircraft. 2 battered dutchess' and one manky arrow, and the other 2...well :ouch:

I do have however, have good news. PAT cut the crap and explained it all superbly, i shall go there i think, they shall get my money.

Watch Out! please!

The manky arrow is actually a pleasure to fly!! The school does use quite a bit of marketing. The instructors are generally good. One or two exceptional ones in my opinion. The Head of training is a very unique individual, who conducts the cockpit cohesion briefs ( CRM stuff ) balance of power etc between student and instructor. Ie how not to shout and ball, then gives you a full dose of shouting and balling once airbourne!! A good example of how never to instruct!!

Apart from that, not a bad little outfit.

A little over reaction me thinks :=

With a little more experience I think you will begin to be able to decern Marketing hypebole from reality. That is why it is so important to visit as many FTO's as possible and form your own opinion, rather than blindly absorbing and believing the glossy brochures.

IMHO BCFT is a good outfit and I would recommend them. I have also heard good things about PAT..so that may be a good choice for you..assuming you have visited them :ooh:

Actual a good use of time would be to visit BCFT, PAT and Cabair as they are within ~200m of each other.

But you should also take a look at Old Sarum as they are close to you, very good, very friendly and will take you through PPL at a good price. :)

I'm about to start my groundschool with BCFT, although I havn't decided whether to do the flying there aswell.

From a groundschool point of view they seem to have a good set up. I havn't flown their "manky arrow" so can't comment.

HappyFran you are so right.

The amount of times I've seen flashy websites, glossy brochures and full page ads - the majority of schools look nothing like reality.

Two of the schools I've attended were the opposite of what their websites and marketing portrayed. They seemed to be large, modern institutions, whereas in reality, they were based in little shacks, with slightly less cutting edge facilities compared to what their websited say!

But to back up this post - be very careful with marketing. A few cleverly placed words can cover things up, and make a place sound excellent - but we all know statistics can be presented in a way that can support anything you say.

PAT are superb though. I had a great time:ok:

Just been looking at the BCFT brouchure. I don't think anywhere does it state that the courses operated are 'Integrated'.
The only Uk schools that run 'Integrated' courses are CTC, Cabair(Cranield) and OTT.
Everyone else,(including PAT) run modular programmes. Some do all the modules, some just a few.
BCFT run all the modules. There 'Jetline' programme is what I call 'Sequential Modular', my words not theres ;)
In general most people consider it a good idea to do the CPL/ME/IR at one school. The PPL and ATPL theory can be done elsewhere.
You should be aware that, to the best of my knowledge, PAT does not run an ATPL ground school. I believe it is distance learning. This may or maynot suit you.
If you plan to do distance learning, you should also consider Bristol as they are highly regarded and many people use there question bank.

Finally I think you are being a little harse / judgemental on the state of the BCFT aircraft. Whilst I am not very experienced, I have flown a few aircraft and think that the aircraft at BCFT are OK and certainly fit for purpose. Most FTO aircraft have a pretty hard life and can look more tired than they actually are.:)

Another recommendation for PAT - very high standards and links with an airline or two.

BCFT.
 

Well, BCFT do NOT claim to be integrated. They offer a modular service. Ive vistied many FTOs, and BCFT was the one which cut all the crap. I went to visit, and they told me how it is, without any rubbish. They claim to be 'what you see is whagt you get' . Period.

Quel Surprise! Ive since joined and am very happy.

1. If you read the brochure, you'd see that they dont claim to be integrated.
2. If you did any research about integrated / modular (i.e. the first thing you do...) you'd know that there a few integrated schools in the UK. BCFT isnt one of them.
3. If you had to wait to get down there to find out that theres no such thing as an 'Integrated Modular Course'. Then you should find out some more about chhosing your path before slating BCFT.

What BCFT do do, is they will take you from Ab initio to fATPL in a structured way. Their Jetline course (which is modular), is a personal service, and up to you how you do it. Whichever way you want to do it, they will help you.

Where else can you do PPL to MCC in one place, back to back, with an open door policy and a first name basis with all the staff? (For circa 40K)

PS. An unbiased opinion :} BCFTs duchesses, are probably 2 of the best kep ive seen. Are you sure you didnt see the Cabair Duchesses :P .

Its very rare for any school to get you jobs (not impossible) but I would be interested to hear from G SXTY how many students have got places from PAT with their direct links to Flybe Highland Airways and Jet2.

While airlines are starting to realise 'intergrated' isn't the only option to recruitment (like BA years ago)... they still state, even at heathrow flyer shows, they want you to do everything if possible 'one-stop-modular'. 2 at the most.

Personally i beleive every school instructs to high standards... the CAA's !! for a FTO choice myself i chose BCFT as the friendly staff, good aircraft, A** most realistic dutchess sim ever seen, busy and professional atmosphere, and they get you into the social side having fun on an odd evening.

BCFT is one of the few places like people say, that'll take you from nothing to PPL to fATPL inc MCC with thet 'Jetline' course and theres extra optionals to add from Aero's, FIC's to JOC's (and their pricing is hard to match).

End of the day go see a few FTO's, talk to the staff, talk to the actual students there NOW and see how their enjoying it, not years ago, and make up your own mind rather than taking peoples views on here for gospel.

Forums always cause arguements as everyones different. Its your money, do what you like with it, but make sure your happy with your decissions :ok:

No school 'gets you a job.' Take any such promises / suggestions / hints with a huge dose of salt - it is not within the school's power to 'get you a job'.

What may happen is this: as a student you impress the school, both with your flying ability and your attitude and professionalism. If the school has airline contacts, and those airlines happen to be recruiting, they may well ask the school for suitable CVs. Through a combination of aptitude, attitude and good timing, your CV may go straight to the top of the pile. Therefore the school may be able to get you an interview. Which is half the battle, but you are the one who has to pass the interview and sim assessment. The best you will get from any school is a foot in the door.

I was at PAT for three months last autumn; of the people who trained with me, four had interviews with Jet2, one was offered a job. Five students had interviews with Flybe and four of us are now driving Q400s. :ok: I know there have been more interviews since then. For a small school, that represents a significant percentage of their students, which is no mean feat and is testimony to the quality of instruction.

I think you'll find more than one Pprune mod is ex-PAT too.

will agree with that... how i got my job and many others have, just with bcft different school, different contacts, different company. They dont tell people they have these links though. kinda unfair to announce

'and links with an airline or two'

Saw you wrote that and assumed PAT did like CTC etc. see how picking people can get when it comes to promoting a FTO :ok:

Thomas Harrison you win the award for spouting sh1te...

BCFT is one of the best schools you can go to.

1. A/C are in great condition, well equiped, and do there job well
2. Not many schools have a sim like BCFTs
3. Marketing scam it is not, its a great idea to keep students at 1 school, and its for the good of the student to have a structured well managed and monitored course.
4. Not very well!
5. Career instructors, quite rare to find at most modular schools
6. The place is open and honest, if you want to go and sit in a class or back seat a flight you can.

I suggest you go back to the drawing board and start again, an attitude like yours will not go far, if your prepared to come on here and slate a school, its staff and a/c without so much as an ounce of truth or experience to back it up.
I did my ATPL ground school at BCFT and would have stayed for the flight training if it wasnt so far from home.
Grow up and good luck with your training, and please no more posts like that unless you have actual experience at a school and a genuine complaint.

I think they have gone out of business.

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=44515

I got my job through a recommendation from the CFI at PAT.

Don't expect you can just turn up, pay the bill and get recommended, however.

Big shame about Old Sarum.
Had ad in local paper last week for reception staff :confused::confused::confused:
Hope it is a short term problem.
Great bunch of people, with real commitment.real shame
Flew last Saturday, due to fly on Saturday !!:{:{
Am owed a few ££ paid on credit card..wonder how to get that back :confused:


Anyway back on topic... have seen repeated high emotions when anyone praises or critises a FTO. I thought unbalanced reactive responses were not condusive to making a good pilot :suspect::suspect:

Only way for a Wannabee to choose school is to;
1. Try to decode FTO glossy
2. Read threads on forums like Pprune...and try to decode :eek:
3. Visit as many FTO's as you can and ask 20 questions.

How about listing 10 or so questions that you asked or wished you asked before choosing you FTO.... suggestions:ok:

Happy Fran is right with his response, but Nearly there seems to want to make this personal. I won’t react to that.
Nearly there,
‘bcft is one of the best schools you can go to’
What complete and utter nonsense. On which scoring system? How did you come to the conclusion that it is ‘one of the best’? I guess you have sampled them all? No.
And your list of reasons makes for equal hilarity:
1. a/c in great condition and do their job well- the equipment is that required to perform the IR and how on earth can you claim they are in great condition? My granddad has a Vauxhall Viva in better shape;
2. I will give you the point on the sim- it is excellent;
3. Marketing scam it is not, it’s a great idea to keep students at one school – they certainly do that- if you leave early- you lose your cash!!!! And you are missing the point- my point concerns the misleading marketing material inside and outside the premises;
4. They are not all career instructors- this is complete and utter nonsense as a couple of guys there will tell you- I have their PMs;
5. Open and honest? Butter wouldn’t melt in any private company’s eyes would it dear? OF COURSE YOU CAN BACKSEAT! They want your custom!!!!!!!!!!! Think about it!
And you suggest i go back to the drawing board- well, who better to suggest that than a mystery guest on pprune who more than likely works at the place- and you only think i have no truth to back it up! I think your final line sums it up well
‘I would have stayed if it wasn’t so far from home....’
Well, read into that what you will everyone- I was only talking about the marketing material-. Hopefully some of you guys out there might just take a closer look at things and LISTEN to real people, not company stooges with ever-changing nicknames on here.
No Sponsor is right to highlight PAT- they were really above board- they weren’t telling mistruths.
Most schools have career instructors by the way, if you haven’t noticed; you require a considerable amount of Multi-Engine time to become an IR instructor. I doubt many people actually pay for 700 multi hours out of their back pocket. PPL instructors could be any old Johnson with a CPL, 200 hours minimum. Im not stupid, i’ve read LASORS back to front my man!
I would appreciate it considerably, if you kept the remarks about my age to yourself: there’s no need to lay a foul tongue on me my friend, you won’t provoke me to respond in kind. I may be 17, but age is just a number. My opinions are just as valid as yours. I’ve merely stated my distaste at the “Integrated Modular” advertisement these people have fathomed out of thin air. I am not ‘slating’ anyone- this is a lot of money- please just ensure you investigate as thoroughly as i have.

1) What is your 1st series pass rate for the CPL?
2) Ditto for the IR?
A little unfair this one, as few schools pick and choose their students, but at least it gives you a yardstick to compare with the opposition.
3) What is the average number of hours before test for the CPL?
4) Ditto for the IR?
Again, much depends on the calibre of the students, but at the very least you need to know this for your budget. Minimum hours are pretty meaningless - I would expect to budget at least 10% extra for safety.
5) If I sign up with you, are prices fixed for the duration of the course?
Worth knowing - if you're spending £20k on the CPL/IR, any increases in hourly costs (or fuel surcharges) will hit you hard.
6) If aircraft go tech, do you have contingency plans to source replacements?
If the school only has a couple of IR training aircraft and one goes tech, everyone will be fighting over the remaining one. A back-up plan at least shows that they have thought about the issue.
7) What are the backgrounds of your instructors, and for how long have they been with you?
A polite way of saying; "Are they career instructors or just treading water until they can get into the airlines?"
8) Do you have direct relationships with any airlines, i.e. do they accept recommendations for interview?
As discussed above - if the school has links with airlines, you have more of a chance of getting your foot in the door. Take nothing for granted however, not everyone gets recommendations.
9) If I am still unemployed after one year, do you offer discounts on IR renewals?
Pessimistic but worth considering. If you are still unemployed after a year, you'll be watching every penny.
10) Can I chat to some of your current and ex-students?
Probably the most important question of all. Get them out of earshot and you'll get the real low-down on how the school operates.

Thomas - have you ever heard of Libel Laws?


For what it is worth mate you are totally wrong. BCFT are excellent. Like many naive Wannabes who know nothing about flying training other than how to write cheques you confuse shiny premises, shiny aircraft and shiny uniforms with quality training.

Off you toddle to one of the sausage factories there's a good boy.


WWW

I went to BCFT. First time pass in all ground exams. CPL completed in 4 weeks and minimum hours with first time pass. IR completed in 6 weeks with minimum hours and a first time pass. Only lost one day to an a/c going tech. Was able to fly at weekends aswell and had an interview before i'd even finished because of BCFT.
Every school has its good and bad points so you should visit each school and see how you will fit in. BCFT might not be for everyone but you can say the same about any flying school.
That said I havent got a job in a boeing or airbus since i finished instead i have a job at a very successful flying club.
At the end of the day you are the customer and you have a choice where to go.