Birky
My advice woukld be go to USA and do the whole lot!

I was in your position couple of years ago same school etc.. and needed to do about 85 hrs PIC so went to San Diego to anglo american and eventually got the whole lot done in about 5 weeks,it was a bit of a push but the best flying/fun had ever!
Anglo owned by a couple of brits who like a laugh/beer make sure you get a good rate based on the total hours before you go.I did my hour building in Warrior/Arrow which helped when i came back to do the CPL in stapleford,perfect place to hour build sea/mountains/desert.Iwent off cross country for a week and half saw amazing amount of USA best flying i have ever done and wish i could do it again

Forget about Africa to many problems may be encountered!

You might want to leave 5 hrs ish to do when you get back to get back into uk procedures but no more as you have already done your ppl here and it will all flood back.

Oh yeah if going to USA start appling for visa NOW! as it takes for ever and you cant let anglo or whoever know when you are arriving until you have it.

Hope it works out for you,it did for me,now flying A320/321 SO KEEP AT IT!

regards,

biminiflyer:ok:

I wouldn't say "forget about Africa" - I got some Jet Ranger time with NAC at Virginia in Durban. Fabulous little airport, just by the beach, great aero club, very high standard of instruction, well maintained aircraft - couldn't fault them!

Only thing with SA (and Durban is better than most SA cities) is the crime - you really have to be vigilant.

Cheers

Whirls

I think that's an excellent plan! I've always said that hour-building is the time to get a range of different experiences.....

In the US, I did my hour-building in Arizona, and can definitely recommend it as far as "local flora and fauna" is concerned, as well as recommending a very good school to rent from - Chandler Air Service. Contrary to what biminiflyer says, no Visa is needed if you are just hour-building - the Visa is only a requirement if you are undergoing training. But you will need to get the ball rolling with regards to getting an FAA license - you'll need to pay the CAA a nominal amount for their efforts in confirming to the FAA that you do have a license. (The FAA don't make any charge for their efforts, though...)

No idea about Africa - I've heard some very good things, so long as you stay in the right parts of town, but no first-hand experience. But if you're planning on splitting the ATPLs, try to do the hour-building in between modules, immediately after the first set of exams.

Again, I'm going to disagree with biminiflyer on the last part of your hour-building - 5 hours is not enough. You won't need that much time to get back into the UK way of doing things, because as biminiflyer says, you've done your PPL over here. But you will need a little bit of time to get your general flying skills back up to the level where you are ready to start your CPL after a few months off. I think your plan is very sensible.

As for how to use your time, have a read of my CPL Diary (there's a link to it in the archive reference thread of this forum) to see what to expect for the CPL, then start brushing up on those things. Bear in mind, though, that the IMC requirements are much lower now than they were when I did my CPL, so concentrate on the VFR stuff.

Most importantly, though, have fun!

FFF
---------------

I'm just considering a number of places currently for 70hours of flying and stumped with all the decisions.Looking to go pretty soon.

Regards

Agree with all the destinations above, but do not forget about Canada, real variation of terrain and weather in this country, easy to get the paperwork as well.

YYZ

Hours Building
 

Get as much experience as possible. That is what will make you a good pilot! Go for it, i wish i had gone to more places in my training.

Good plan, but YYZ has an excellent point. I would advise not to do it all in the US, as so many students come back and struggle on CPL courses after doing so - it's cheaper to get yourself back into the habits of UK flying without paying a CPL instructor!

Thank you all for your input here and in my PMs. Much appreciated.

I'll take a close look at your suggestions and post up my final decision for the benefit of anyone else at my stage.

Regards

Birky

Birky,

If your really interested in S.Africa may I recommend Algoa. I havent been there myself but have heard nothing but good reports about the place. Its on the coast so some nasty winds so will definately improve your cross wind landings. Port Elizabeth is a lovely place. Great beaches and lots of interesting places to fly to. As already mentioned, crime is bad but as long as your sensible you may not have a problem. Ive done both a JAA PPL and an SA PPL and have to say the standard for training is excellent. However, just like anywhere really, there are definately some dodgy operators out there. Be carefull who you choose and never pay cash up front - same as you wouldnt in the states or the UK. If you want more info check out this website. www.avcom.co.za :ok: :ok:

Twin hour-building recommendations
 

At some point in the future (but not just yet), I might want to do another 15 hours of so of hour-building on multi-engine pistons - with the aim of reaching the 30 hours P1 MEP which is required to begin the multi-engine instructor course.

Does anyone have any recommendations for cheap but reasonable condition twins, somewhere in the UK? Some de-icing would be good, since the hour-building is quite likely to be in the middle of winter. The twin I'm currently flying is extremely good, but not cheap, and the bank balance is really hurting from the 10 hours I've done on it already.

FFF
-------------

There is a Seneca at Old Sarum which was at 180 solo an hour. Not sure if the price has changed recently. As cheap as it gets in the UK.

I have to do some hour building IFR in a twin for a taxi job. I'm minimising the cost by flying to the Channel Islands and France a lot. £106 drawback on full tanks of a Duchess!

Ah - good thinking, SC. I might meet you there!!!

FFF
--------------

Hours Building Low Cost
 

Hello all,

I've got to complete 20 hours of PIC so that I can send off for my blue plastic CPL\IR licence. Does anyone know where I can get an aircraft (single) either here in the UK or in Europe for under a hundred pounds? I'm looking to complete the hours in about 7-10 days.

All help greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

TB.:D

Cliff Day at Havarfordwest, £95 ish, no landing fees.

01267202292

Long way out, but for 20 hrs, he may let you relocate it for the week

CG

Tomahawk for 79 quid an hour.


01667 462226.

do it on an SLMG, many clubs fly them for < 45 quid hr. U can do 25 hrs on one for a CPL issue

Thank you to you all so far, my phone book is getting bigger!

Has anyone done any hours building in Europe for a reasonable rate?

Old Sarum Seneca 1 solo rate for members is 196 including fuel surcharge of 12 pounds. Well equiped with G430 and new engines and props!

TubularBells isn't really a CPL/IR - i've flown with him and know how awful he is in the air !! couldn't possibly have passed !! hehe !! :E - Only joking !!! couldn't resist posting my own little bit on your post JG !!
By the way, someone out there in the airline world better employ this guy fast, knows what he's doing does our TubularBells - i'd happily fly with him in my right-hand seat !! hehe

Oh no! I've been rumbled!

F.O I'd be happy to be your wingman anytime. Let me know when you've finished your PPL and we can talk. (:E ) haha!

Slightly off topic (sorry FFF)

What's a reasonable load for a Seneca? Will it take the 5 Fs? (Four fat err, fellas and full fuel).

Hello Tubular bells,

In my flying club located in the south east of France by the mediterranean seaside, here are the fees:

- Robin DR400, 2 seater, 108 HP cruising speed 100kt: 70€/h (47 £/ hour) all inclusive

- Robin DR400 4 seater (limited to 3 persons) , 120 HP cruising speed 100 kt: 79€/hour (53£/hour) all inclusive

- Robin DR400 4 seater 160 HP: 101€/h (68£/hour all inclusive)

- Robin DR 400 180 HP cruising speed 120 kt: 108€ (72£/h all inclusive)

- Piper PA28 160 HP: 101€/h (68£/hour all inclusive)

You need to subscribe an insurance and to pay an anual fee to the flying club (from the top of my head: 80£ or so).

I already have my CPL, IR me and a MCC, but I love flying these aircraft, and also fly them for cheap hour building, waiting to do a CFI training next month.

I hope this will help. If you or anybody else want to share trips, I'd be happy to fly with you.

Regards.

If you're still looking, I've done all my hour building in Tauranga New Zealand. It's an awesome place to fly, snow covered mountains, lakes rivers, 5 mins from the beach, and C172 for about 55 quid ($160NZD) look at www.flytac.co.nz , thaeyre all really helpful and can arrange accommodation and an old car for you, (they get lots of Brits hour building)

Any suggestions for Sydney?

I'd go to Oz. A huge, unpopulated country, filled with nothing. No navaids, nothing (apart from flies). But the flying is excellent, great value for money and the locals very friendly. And I recon that you could easily count on their support to help you with your mission. My experiences were in Jandakot (Royal Aero Club of Western Australia) and Par Avion/Tas Air in Tasmania.

If you want to learn anything florida is not the place to go, unless all you want to do is put hours in your log book. California and arizona will challenge you as a private pilot, Canada is good for learning the weather especially the east coast if you want to fly in the hills go to the west coast BC, just my thoughts

If hour building in USA don't limit yourself to one state - fly across America, up to Canada and back again. I did that - buy a road map and decide where you fancy going - we saw some great places; set out early in the morning, stop for fuel then fly on and spend the afternoon somewhere interesting sightseeing, then fly again for a couple of hours in the evening. Get to know 1-800-wx-brief people really well, particularly the met man!

Tips for saving money:

1) put advertisements up in flight schools in the UK asking if anyone wants to come with you - many newish PPLers want the experience but don't want to go alone - share the costs, just make sure you log all the time. Can make the trip more fun.

2) get a copy of the AOPA guide (I think its AOPA, looks like a telephone directory). It lists all airports in the USA, with useful info such as whether they provide free courtesy car, free "pilot rest area" (which is basically just like a motel room, for free), etc.
Many do. Some are fantastic (try Austin, Texas).

3) try and find out where the cheapest fuel is to be had. Many pilots will know if they've been somewhere and it was cheap.

4) do as many landings, night flying, instrument approaches, approaches to big airports as you can as its relevant to airline flying and its free

5) when staying in cities stay in the affiliated youth hostels, dirt cheap.

Don't discount the UK.

I bought a share in an aircraft at the local field, it cost about £35 per hour to fly and £35 a month. After three years I sold the share on for what I paid for it and a little bit more.

It had excellent availability - you get to fly with other syndicate members and learn off them - and you can go farther. Having a share close to home means that it is easier to take friends, family and colleagues flying (and possibly help with cost sharing).

You fly in busy UK airspace in crummy UK weather, you will build better navigation, command and radio skills here, rather than flying under flight following in CAVOK in the US.

If you finally get an airline job you still have access to a cheap light aircraft to fly.

Hour Building
 

Due to me being married, I have resigned myself to hour building in the UK. Fair enough, it is more expensive, however I have paid for time in the S.E of England (where I am also doing an IMC and Warrior conversion), plus time in Scotland (where I live) at Prestwick and hopefully some flying in Ireland with my father...if done right it will show variation in different UK airspace and hopefully stand me well for my CPL/IR.

hi
Here is one for you, Why dont you try Botswana. There is a good school in Gaborone. The weather is brillant, costs the same as SA. Cheap living, and you get to go to extreme places and see animals. It would also be good expierence for anyone with plans to work at Maun. If you are interested PM me, I have the details of the Flying Club.

Flying Paddy

UK Hour Building. Is it possible?
 

Hi
I need to build another 75 hours before I start a commercial course and had always planned on doing this in the US. After speaking to a few schools and students I'm convinced that I should be doing at least a portion of my hour building in UK airspace. Is this possible in the next month or so? My main concern is weather.

Thanks,
THomas

They wouldn't be schools who would be making money out of your decision to fly in UK airspace would they???
It's remarkable how many foreign pilots never to do an hour in the UK while training, yet when commercial, they manage to fly over here without hitting things.

Re weather - if you're from Dublin you don't need to ask.

I would have thought that US flying could be as challenging if not more so than the UK. The UK does have awkward weather and crowded airspace, but then the US has hot'n'high, terrain, weather extremes and the possibility of really mixing it with the big boys (much less GA phobia at the big'n'busy airports so I'm told).

75 hours in a month in winter in the UK?
Hmm I think not.Theres only about 7 hours daylight per day anyway.
However hour building in the UK is possible I have gone from 60 hours TT in March to 145 hours TT in October all in the uk so it can be done with a bit of forward planning

Hi
To be fair to the school that really pushed me to get experience in the UK, they pointed me in the direction of local clubs for cheaper prices.
I've only ever flown in the US. My PPL was issued by the UK CAA but I trained in Florida. I can see the sense in getting used to the airspace and RT before starting a commercial course. Maybe I'd do fine without the experience but I can't see the harm in doing it.
All talk though, if the weather is the same as Dublin there's little chance. Even if it looks clear you won't get far.

Thanks

Go where its the best price. If its the US so be it. You can fly almost everyday there, if you go to the right place for the season. You are satisfying a minimum requirement for flight. The training comes later. Experience in the UK could be of some use but experience in flying is the essence. You will surely need the money you save later.

I leased an aircraft his summer to do some hour building and managed to do over 100 hours in two months even when working two days a week. It's entirely possible to hour build in the UK, but probably only in the summer.

Leasing an aircraft is the best way to do it in this country as it is available to you all the time; no messing around with bookings and all the other disorganisation that happens at flight schools/clubs. For me, it also worked out cheaper than hiring from a club by a considerable margin.

AppleMacster

I disagree with the general advice - I would try to do at least some hour-building in the UK, if that is where you will be looking for a job.

I'm all for doing some training abroad - but you've already done your PPL in the US. At some point, you really need to get at least a little bit of UK experience, even if it means putting up with some weather delays.

As for the weather - the best flying days in the UK are always in the winter, when the air is clear. Sometimes it takes a bit of patience waiting for these days, but it's worth waiting.

Maybe you could split your hour-building, so that you can do some where the weather is better, and some in the UK?

FFF
-------------------

Why don't you get your IMC rating first and after that do all your flying here. You need the instrument time anyway and you have more chances to get your hours in.

Try to go all over the country. Meeting a lot of people etc. etc.