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Modular Route - Best Time to Start Hour Building

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Modular Route - Best Time to Start Hour Building

Old 29th Apr 2022, 07:51
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Modular Route - Best Time to Start Hour Building

I am currently completing the modular route and am presently in the hour building phase. I am planning to complete my ATPL theory distance learning through one of the main providers in the U.K.

My initial thoughts were to do my ATPL theory once I reach 50 hours PIC leaving me 50 hours to complete over the course of my ATPL theory course. This would effectively give me a 12-18 months to complete this, which I believe is realistic as I also have a full time job and other commitments.

Does anybody have any advice on this?
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 11:28
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Originally Posted by interested123 View Post
I am currently completing the modular route and am presently in the hour building phase. I am planning to complete my ATPL theory distance learning through one of the main providers in the U.K.

My initial thoughts were to do my ATPL theory once I reach 50 hours PIC leaving me 50 hours to complete over the course of my ATPL theory course. This would effectively give me a 12-18 months to complete this, which I believe is realistic as I also have a full time job and other commitments.

Does anybody have any advice on this?
Hi,

I am in a similar situation as you are. I have already reached around 50h PIC, and already studying ATPL theory by my own, although I am planning to join an ATO to do it on-site, since otherwise with a demanding FT job I think it will take me too long, and not sure that I will be able to do it all by my own to be honest.
I think is a good choice to study ATPL theory whilst doing your TB at the same time.
Best
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 12:07
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Think very carefully about how you're going to fly those hours. Blindly getting to 100 hours PIC then doing a CPL/IR at a flight school is financially the worst thing you can do.

I'd recommend flying the 50 hours cross country PIC you need for the IR while you're studying for the ATPLs, but don't get carried away. Once you have passed the exams you can start your IRR/CBIR, and aim to finish the IR at 170 hours.

Then take a breather and assess the industry: if its looking good then (a) go for MEP, MEIR and SECPL. If not and you're running out of time or money then (b) just go for the SECPL. Both options will guarantee your exam passes for another 7 years.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 13:25
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
Think very carefully about how you're going to fly those hours. Blindly getting to 100 hours PIC then doing a CPL/IR at a flight school is financially the worst thing you can do.

I'd recommend flying the 50 hours cross country PIC you need for the IR while you're studying for the ATPLs, but don't get carried away. Once you have passed the exams you can start your IRR/CBIR, and aim to finish the IR at 170 hours.

Then take a breather and assess the industry: if its looking good then (a) go for MEP, MEIR and SECPL. If not and you're running out of time or money then (b) just go for the SECPL. Both options will guarantee your exam passes for another 7 years.
Hi rudestuff,

Why is it financially wrong to keep building flying time, whilst I study ATPL theory? Sorry but I think I don't see your point. My aim is to keep learning and progressing flying, and finish everything alltogether between the range of 200-250h.
From what I have been told in some ATOs, most sensible/common way of completing the modular path would be:
PPL (done)
ATPL theory (ongoing)
time building (150 total hours, c100 PIC) (ongoing)
Next steps:
IRSEP
NR
IRMEP
CPL
JOC/MCC

Please advise if I am considering it correctly.

Many thanks
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 14:25
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Originally Posted by Aviator172s View Post
Why is it financially wrong to keep building flying time, whilst I study ATPL theory? Sorry but I think I don't see your point. My aim is to keep learning and progressing flying, and finish everything alltogether between the range of 200-250h.
From what I have been told in some ATOs, most sensible/common way of completing the modular path would be:
PPL (done)
ATPL theory (ongoing)
time building (150 total hours, c100 PIC) (ongoing)
Next steps:
IRSEP
NR
IRMEP
CPL
JOC/MCC
Actually that's a pretty good plan. Unfortunately a lot of people do PPL+Night, 100 hours PIC, ATPLs then CPL at 200 hours THEN a full IR course of 30sim+15multi. The last part is where the money gets wasted. Forget 250, aim to finish everything at 200 hours! Every hour over 200 is an hour you didn't need to spend 😜
By the sound of it your ATO is giving you some good advice (considering it's in their interest for you to fly/spend more rather than less)

Considering how long the ATPL exams can take when working and studying part time, the danger is that you fly too many hours too soon. Its important to leave some towards the end so that you can get back into flight training with a decent amount if recency.

Getting an SEIR as your first IR is a good idea for a few reasons. (a) It's cheaper whilst still saving the ATPL exams, (b) it reduces you MEP time by at least 10 hours, (c) it'll only cost you a few thousand because you can avoid the SIM and write most of it off against hour building (but only if you plan very carefully &#128521 and (d) when you eventually write your CV, the only dates that actually matter are MEIR and MCC. That means if no-ones hiring cadets for the next few years you can sit on your SECPL/IR for a long a you like and hold of getting the MEIR/MCC until the time is right, then graduate with a fresh one. Nothing to keep current.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 11:00
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
Actually that's a pretty good plan. Unfortunately a lot of people do PPL+Night, 100 hours PIC, ATPLs then CPL at 200 hours THEN a full IR course of 30sim+15multi. The last part is where the money gets wasted. Forget 250, aim to finish everything at 200 hours! Every hour over 200 is an hour you didn't need to spend 😜
By the sound of it your ATO is giving you some good advice (considering it's in their interest for you to fly/spend more rather than less)

Considering how long the ATPL exams can take when working and studying part time, the danger is that you fly too many hours too soon. Its important to leave some towards the end so that you can get back into flight training with a decent amount if recency.

Getting an SEIR as your first IR is a good idea for a few reasons. (a) It's cheaper whilst still saving the ATPL exams, (b) it reduces you MEP time by at least 10 hours, (c) it'll only cost you a few thousand because you can avoid the SIM and write most of it off against hour building (but only if you plan very carefully &#128521 and (d) when you eventually write your CV, the only dates that actually matter are MEIR and MCC. That means if no-ones hiring cadets for the next few years you can sit on your SECPL/IR for a long a you like and hold of getting the MEIR/MCC until the time is right, then graduate with a fresh one. Nothing to keep current.
Why is 250h worse than 200h in your opinion?
I agree with your point of not flying "too much" too early since ATPL theory may take long in my case.
Actually, some ATOs require NR and CPL before applying to MEIR, I guess that's the trick you are referring to.

Once ATPL theory is completed, how much time would be reasonable to accomplish all the remaining steps alltogether, with full time dedication? 3-6 months?

Best
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Old 3rd May 2022, 17:53
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Originally Posted by Aviator172s View Post
Why is 250h worse than 200h in your opinion?
It's not if you've got money to burn! Most of us are on a budget so the fewer hours the cheaper.
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Old 5th May 2022, 13:50
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
It's not if you've got money to burn! Most of us are on a budget so the fewer hours the cheaper.
I am also on a budget! Of course the fewer / most sensible hours the better.

Once ATPL theory is completed, do you know how much time would be reasonable to accomplish all the remaining steps alltogether, with full time dedication? 3-6 months?

Thanks,
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Old 5th May 2022, 14:10
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Originally Posted by Aviator172s View Post
I am also on a budget! Of course the fewer / most sensible hours the better.

Once ATPL theory is completed, do you know how much time would be reasonable to accomplish all the remaining steps alltogether, with full time dedication? 3-6 months?

Thanks,
It's quite possible to do the MEIR and CPL in 2 months if you can get a place at somewhere like Diamond flight academy in Sweden, but that course is 29,000 including accommodation and test fees. Prerequisites include a PPL, NR and 157TT so it's an easy rather than cheap option.

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Old 6th May 2022, 05:38
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It's about making the hours work twice - for example, if you did the IR on your PPL, they would also count for your total hours.
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Old 7th May 2022, 00:13
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
Think very carefully about how you're going to fly those hours. Blindly getting to 100 hours PIC then doing a CPL/IR at a flight school is financially the worst thing you can do.

I'd recommend flying the 50 hours cross country PIC you need for the IR while you're studying for the ATPLs, but don't get carried away. Once you have passed the exams you can start your IRR/CBIR, and aim to finish the IR at 170 hours.

Then take a breather and assess the industry: if its looking good then (a) go for MEP, MEIR and SECPL. If not and you're running out of time or money then (b) just go for the SECPL. Both options will guarantee your exam passes for another 7 years.
Looking at doing something similar the question originator but when I googled around your response I read the following,
The CBIR is a new and unique way to train towards the IR which is valid anywhere in the world. This course is aimed at experienced pilots not looking to take the commercial route and is carefully tailored to each pilot undertaking the training.
Why advise this CoA? Keen to learn more re CBIR.
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Old 7th May 2022, 00:20
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Just asking why you are electing to for self-study as about to school? I did consider doing this but having but out of school for 20 years I felt I will be better served at Ground School.

If money was no an issue would you go for the school option?
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Old 7th May 2022, 15:00
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Originally Posted by LCpl_Ghostrider View Post
The CBIR is a new and unique way to train towards the IR which is valid anywhere in the world. This course is aimed at experienced pilots not looking to take the commercial route and is carefully tailored to each pilot undertaking the training.
Why advise this CoA? Keen to learn more re CBIR.
The CBIR is one of about 7 different routes to an IR - they're all the same qualification regardless of your goals or background. It's also the cheapest route with the fewest hours required, and can easily be upgraded to MEIR.
If the theoretical knowledge is done at ATPL level, it's an identical qualification to a "full" IR, whatever that is!

Last edited by rudestuff; 7th May 2022 at 15:30.
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Old 7th May 2022, 16:13
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
The CBIR is one of about 7 different routes to an IR - they're all the same qualification regardless of your goals or background. It's also the cheapest route with the fewest hours required, and can easily be upgraded to MEIR.
If the theoretical knowledge is done at ATPL level, it's an identical qualification to a "full" IR, whatever that is!
Can it be done pre-ATPL, and on passing all ATPL exams will it become a full IR as you mentioned above.

Furthermore, if it does, one presumes that the cost of the CPL ME/IR becomes cheaper as it is only the CPL MEP?

Did try to IM you but didn't seem to have the capability to.

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Old 8th May 2022, 11:39
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Originally Posted by LCpl_Ghostrider View Post
Can it be done pre-ATPL, and on passing all ATPL exams will it become a full IR as you mentioned above.

Furthermore, if it does, one presumes that the cost of the CPL ME/IR becomes cheaper as it is only the CPL MEP?
You can do the IR pre-ATPLs but that would mean taking CBIR theory as well. If you wait until the ATPLs are finished you can use them for everything (I held a foreign PPL so I did 14 ATPL exams and used them for PPL, CPL, IR and ATPL).

The main way a CBIR saves you money is by avoiding the simulator and using a real aircraft, thus counting towards your 200 hours.

The MEP rating can be done any time after PPL + 70 PIC and preferably before CPL.
The MEIR can be done after MEP and CBIR (reducing your MEP IR training from 15 hours to as little as 2).
The CPL can then be flown in an SEP, with the course reduced to 15 hours.

The trick to keeping the costs down is to do all of the above within 200 hours while keeping everything in the optimal order and also ticking the boxes for all the prerequisites (PIC, night, XC etc...)

I would suggest: (Hours/Dual/PIC)

PPL - 45/35/10
Night - 5/3/2
25 hours XC - 25/0/25
ATPL exams - F.ucking Yippee.
IRR/IMC - 15/15/0
35 hours XC - 35/0/35
CBIR -15/15/0
MEP - 6/6/0
MEIR - 5/5/0
PIC Hour Building - 22/0/22
​​​​​​CPL (SEP) - 15/15/0
Tests - 6/0/6
Totals: 194 hours, 94 Dual, 100 PIC

As you can see it's very tight with only 6 hours spare for extra training, but it is achievable if you train smart:

1. Get all theory out of the way ASAP, your flying will progress much faster.
2. Get a training partner and backseat each other on every dual flight, even if it means paying extra for a 4 seater. You will learn more sitting in the back. For free.
3. Chair Fly - It's free and it's the best way to learn the profiles/circuit etc..
4. Know the POH/Flight manual inside out and back to front.
5. Be the best prepared student at the flight school for every flight.

Do these things and you WILL pass every course in minimum hours. *I did none of these things!




Last edited by rudestuff; 8th May 2022 at 21:27.
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Old 9th May 2022, 07:14
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Just for clarification - to convert the CBIR to a full IR you need a high performance aeroplane course, as it's intended for light aircraft, a fact that seems to have been missed by the twits who wrote the syllabus and the questions. Otherwise, it's just a less formal training course.
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Old 14th May 2022, 04:48
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Which ATO are you using for the modular route?
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