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Does a speeding offence disqualify one from a flying career?

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Does a speeding offence disqualify one from a flying career?

Old 22nd Dec 2020, 12:14
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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No it doesn't. Drink and driving will ruin your chances of a flying career.

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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 12:39
  #22 (permalink)  
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ShyTorque

This is from reading through previous threads regarding driving offences, and from an airline pilot that I know.
This may not be the truth for all airlines, but from speaking to a few people it may be the case with the larger European ones (ie the Budget Irish one and the orange one).

Just trying to an accurate idea from people who have been through the recruitment process so I don’t waste my money on a CPL/ATPL and then be filtered out by HR because of this.
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 12:42
  #23 (permalink)  
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Bloated Stomach

When I learn to drive, I promised myself I’d never drive if I’d had so much as a drop of alcohol. This is fine, as I’ve been tee-total for the last 4 years. The SP30 was for a genuine immature mistake, something I’ve tried hard not to repeat (and so far succeeded, apart from a parking ticket for an overstay of 8 minutes, thanks NCP).
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 12:51
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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When I did my speeding awareness course a couple of years ago, I was sat next to a young lady FO from an Orange Airline.

As we had done the speeding awareness course as our "porridge" it didn't even go on the license. I'd still admit to it though ... and my wife says since it, I drive like an old grandma, so it obviously works.
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 13:26
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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I did a speed awareness course sitting next to a youth who'd arrived in the car park in a Citroen Saxo with a big bore exhaust.

The facilitator asked him what gear he'd drive in, when in a built up area in town.

His reply was "Usually a tee shirt, trakky bottoms, and me trainers".

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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 13:41
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Previous airline I worked for there was a number of pilots who had lost their driving licences but as long as it did not affect their work it was considered a separate private matter. Indeed, I remember one night flight trying to work out how many had lost their driving licences, it was a surprising number! Some of them now fly with carriers mentioned above. The difference being these pilots were already employed when loosing their driving licences. I minor driving offence at the time of application should not in my view be significantly detrimental.

Regardless of the above, unfortunately, I would not consider now a wise time to contemplate joining the industry as the terms and conditions even just pre Covid, are far worse than they have ever been.

Last edited by Alloy; 22nd Dec 2020 at 14:34.
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 14:05
  #27 (permalink)  
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yes, when I’ve spoken to pilots they have said that it doesn’t matter if you get a speeding ticket after being employed as you satisfied all checks at the time of employment, and if you have been driving a while and are of a reasonable age then you are likely to get a ticket at some point.

The issue for me is that I’d already have a tarnished driving record at the time of application which I would have to declare as a conviction. Once employed, the airline had gone through the hassle and cost of training you, they aren’t likely to fire someone over a few speeding tickets if you are consistently demonstrating the required standards at work.
For a newly trained, low-hour wannabe, I’d imagine they’d be flushed with applicants from prestigious schools (I would be modular due to lack of funding) who had untarnished driving records.
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 17:28
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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kghjfg

I would worry much about some guy who would completely refuse to drive through a red light.
Our job is not about bullsh*t paperwork. It's about ensuring the safety of all people onboard even if it requires (sometimes) to go off the books.
The problem with a person like this is that they could probably consider any tiniest deviation from going off the book. And it's difficult to team up with such a person.
There are several things in our Airbus FCOM that are written one way but are commonly done another way. For example, ground power disconnection is a PM action, but responding to the ground crew asking to disconnect is PF action. In practise, 90% of the time, the PM will be doing something else and this leads the PF to disconnect ground power himself.
Another example is configuring for final approach. It is written one way, but it is completely possible to revert some of the items. Gear first if high on the slope for example. My instructors during LT told me there was one notable example where a pilot could not finish LT exactly because he could not deviate from the book, even for tiny details like this.

A person adamant not to drive through a blocked red light when their partner is in a medical emergency would very much worry me in a cockpit.
It can come across as an incapacity to think for themselves.
Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
The RAF reckoned that a young man who was a motorcyclist with a speeding offence conviction was a good bet for becoming a fast jet pilot.
Definetely another valid point
Modern cars are very boring due to safety : lower speed limits and safety features in the car that reduce the "feeling" of speed
I would not raise one eyebrow if someone required to drive an aircraft up to 280km/h on a runway including crosswinds, engine failures, etc.. was feeling bored on the road at 30 mph on a dual carriageway (even urban, there is urban and urban)
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 18:51
  #29 (permalink)  

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rob_ste97

Three points:

1). I’ve been flying for a living since 1977. I’ve never been asked about speeding tickets and when in the process of recruiting pilots myself I’ve never asked potential employees if they have them.

2). A spent speeding conviction is just that. You are NOT compelled to declare it, especially by a recruiter. So, if you are concerned about doing so, no-one can compel you to, nor do they have aright to expect you to do so.

3). If it’s not yet declared spent, then declare it only if asked but as some have already advised, be contrite about it and I doubt it would be a deal breaker.
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 19:54
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Simply say “No” in the interview. Legally, some scummy HR dweeb has no right to obtain police records.
As there will be no airline interviews until 2025, any points accrued now will be long gone by the tome BA next recruit.
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Old 22nd Dec 2020, 20:46
  #31 (permalink)  
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highfive

I wouldn’t ever be able to apply for BA so not too worried about them!
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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 09:36
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Just in UK they can ask this stupid questions
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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 11:22
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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highflyer40;

This is why I would recommend undertaking the speed awareness course if one is afforded the opportunity. Sure - it’s a drag, and nobody wants to be there, but you will learn more about what the rules are, and why they exist, and if you’re like me, you might discover some misconceptions... e.g. that a road can be limited to 50mph without repeater signs. The one big thing I took away from it is that if there is an “artificially” lowered speed limit, or a warning sign, or seemingly extreme restrictions it’s because something has happened at that spot, and someone has come a cropper.

What I would also say is it’s worthwhile being clear about what constitutes a conviction. I am not a lawyer, so I wont’t offer any advice - and I genuinely don’t know the answer - but does a fixed penalty for speeding constitute a conviction?

I appreciate we’re discussing implications for those seeking employment, but as an aside, I had definitely flown with at least one captain that is disqualified from driving...
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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 11:49
  #34 (permalink)  

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The issue is probably getting an airside pass and you'll need to get a notice from Disclosure Scotland or some other place who'll do the background check.
A speeding ticket isn't up there on the seriousness scale.
I looked up what doctors (in the UK) need to declare.
https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contr...nal-conviction
Assuming you weren't running from the police carrying a kilo of Columbia's finest disco dust, I think you'll be ok.
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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 12:15
  #35 (permalink)  
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Hi again redsnail,
Is that a basic DBS or an enhanced one do you know by any chance? I might be ok getting a basic one, but I’m not too sure of an enhanced one which I think shows all convictions.

No white stuff, just a threat of being fired for being so much as a few minutes late for work on boxing day (because apparently, “I have the flu” translates to “I was drinking on Xmas day and am now hungover”).
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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 12:18
  #36 (permalink)  
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Smokey Lomcevak

Apparently for day-to-day it doesn’t count as a conviction, but for certain roles eg joining the police, ?pilot? and other roles where you’ll be in charge of an expensive fast vehicle it does count as a motoring conviction and employers are within their rights to ask “have you ever been convicted of a motoring offence including a fixed penalty notice, speed awareness course or other court ruling”.

interesting insurers even count a speed awareness course as a conviction, I guess because you have been caught. Most only know it counts because their insurance shoots up at renewal.
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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 13:21
  #37 (permalink)  

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I googled "Airside pass".
Airside pass
Fill your boots with the DBS

Personally, I think you're reading far too much into it. You did this once (I assume). There was no crash, you didn't hit anyone nor were you drinking.
They can ask, you can tell them. They probably won't care. They'll be more interested in your sim assessment and whether or not they can spend 12 hours with you on the flight deck. Far more important.

Get off PPRuNe and get back into the books.

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Old 23rd Dec 2020, 13:40
  #38 (permalink)  

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Strangely enough, I correctly declared a speeding ticket to my car insurance broker (53 mph in a 50 limit in open countryside at 06:50 on a Sunday morning, again driving to work) but the following year my renewal was surprisingly a few quid cheaper!

This was in the days before speed awareness courses, I’ve had a “pointless” licence for about fifteen years since those expired.

As I understand the situation, if your offence is dealt with via either a fixed penalty or via a speed awareness course and therefore hasn’t been through the court, it’s not deemed to be a criminal offence. However, it will remain on your driving licence for the statutory period and must be declared to any driving insurance provider. I paid the statutory fee to replace the paper counterpart of my driving licence when the points thereupon were deemed “spent”. Just my luck, not long afterwards DVLA did away with the paper counterpart.....

Last edited by ShyTorque; 23rd Dec 2020 at 13:58.
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Old 24th Dec 2020, 08:50
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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KayPam

yes, they worried about the “adamant he would not drive through a red light” guy too, he didn’t last long on the course, and was let go.

To the other poster:

when I said “clean”, I meant in general, not just driving license.

If someone states they’ve never done anything wrong, or made mistakes, that’s a fail.
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Old 25th Dec 2020, 19:30
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Seems to me you will be an ideal employee.
As many others have written , don’t worry about a simple speeding ticket , this will in no way affect your chances of employment .
I wouldn’t even bother mentioning it,
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