Be aware before starting at Pilot Flight “Academy” Sandefjord Norway. Terminated from
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I’m not so sure that schools keeping money is an “atrocious unethical practice”. If you are offered a course placement it is encumbent on you to fulfil the terms of that placement, since the course could have been utilised by somebody else who did. I doubt there are many institutions who would refund you for poor effort or attainment on your part. This is particularly so when the school has made every reasonable effort to keep you on track through the course. Where the terms and conditions make clear the forfeiture for failure on the students part, you either accept them or you don’t. If the supplier has breached the terms of the contract then you have the option of redress through the courts.
de minimus non curat lex
Without going into details, I knew a less than gifted student from a well off family who attended CTC probably 8-10 years ago and failed to pass the ground school phase.
Lawyers got involved, arguing inter alia, that the teaching was simply not good enough for little Johnny.
The long and short of it, a full refund was obtained.
Little Johnny was then accepted by another establishment, was less than diligent in his studies, and eventually departed as well, having been recourses a number of times. The difference was that the CGI and staff treated him with a measure of TLC. He was starting to become ‘part of the furniture’.
No complaints from the family. Having a large trust fund can in a number of cases result in a lack of motivation by the beneficiary...?.
Lawyers got involved, arguing inter alia, that the teaching was simply not good enough for little Johnny.
The long and short of it, a full refund was obtained.
Little Johnny was then accepted by another establishment, was less than diligent in his studies, and eventually departed as well, having been recourses a number of times. The difference was that the CGI and staff treated him with a measure of TLC. He was starting to become ‘part of the furniture’.
No complaints from the family. Having a large trust fund can in a number of cases result in a lack of motivation by the beneficiary...?.
I’m not so sure that schools keeping money is an “atrocious unethical practice”. If you are offered a course placement it is encumbent on you to fulfil the terms of that placement, since the course could have been utilised by somebody else who did.
Integrated Flight training courses consist of academics and practical flight training.
If you wash out of the academic portion you should be refunded all the flight training funds that were not utilized.
Academic funds maybe not as buildings, utilities and instructors need to be paid for.
But if you’ve paid €90K for an integrated course you should get unused funds returned.
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VariablePitch
I think you are mixing apples and oranges.
- The type-rating gives you the privilege to fly that aircraft type (e.g. A380/B737/ATR72 or whatever it might be).
- The command course (company specific course) gives you the right to fly as a captain for that specific company.
- The ATPL (EASA limitation) is required to fly as a captain in commercial aviation, independent of the aircraft type. Which none of the graduated students are able to do as they are lacking practical experience (flight hours) hence they graduate with a CPL.
But let´s get back to the topic. For most pilots, the ultimate goal is to become a captain. If we then compare that same goal with the medical industry... Would a neurosurgeon start first day of school learning about the brain or learning about the human body? In other words, the coriolis effect or grid navigation would be very hard to relate to if you do not have a basic understanding of aviation. For some students the ATPL theoretical course might be a walk in the park, the same students might then struggle with the practical part and vice versa. All I am trying to say is that no student will pass the ATPL theoretical course without having the right tools at hand. For some that would be in-class tuition, for others the books, cbt:s etc. When some of those tools are taken away (e.g. for cost savings or COVID19 measures) or not provided in the first place, the student life gets very difficult. Try to explain the effects of the lift vector during a straight and level unaccelerated turn to someone who never sat in a cockpit.
It is "very easy" to memorize Human performance and limitations questions in a question bank, and still up to 85% of accidents have human factors as the contributing factor.
We need to stay humble in aviation, and when a training provider is making more money from killing a student's dream rather than achieving it (dreams, as often stated in the marketing) then I would look for another training provider. This does not only go for the above mentioned ATO but any ATO where the contract gives them the right to terminate you after having completed very little of the training program and keep 100% of the tuition fee. In the example above it shows what effects a governmentally sponsored student loan-scheme has on the terms and conditions and the training program. Where the student needs to choose what the student loan fund will approve, rather than which training provider they want. The ultimate decision always rests with the student, to follow or not follow the dream. In this specific case it ended as a nightmare (rarely stated in the marketing).
I think you are mixing apples and oranges.
- The type-rating gives you the privilege to fly that aircraft type (e.g. A380/B737/ATR72 or whatever it might be).
- The command course (company specific course) gives you the right to fly as a captain for that specific company.
- The ATPL (EASA limitation) is required to fly as a captain in commercial aviation, independent of the aircraft type. Which none of the graduated students are able to do as they are lacking practical experience (flight hours) hence they graduate with a CPL.
But let´s get back to the topic. For most pilots, the ultimate goal is to become a captain. If we then compare that same goal with the medical industry... Would a neurosurgeon start first day of school learning about the brain or learning about the human body? In other words, the coriolis effect or grid navigation would be very hard to relate to if you do not have a basic understanding of aviation. For some students the ATPL theoretical course might be a walk in the park, the same students might then struggle with the practical part and vice versa. All I am trying to say is that no student will pass the ATPL theoretical course without having the right tools at hand. For some that would be in-class tuition, for others the books, cbt:s etc. When some of those tools are taken away (e.g. for cost savings or COVID19 measures) or not provided in the first place, the student life gets very difficult. Try to explain the effects of the lift vector during a straight and level unaccelerated turn to someone who never sat in a cockpit.
It is "very easy" to memorize Human performance and limitations questions in a question bank, and still up to 85% of accidents have human factors as the contributing factor.
We need to stay humble in aviation, and when a training provider is making more money from killing a student's dream rather than achieving it (dreams, as often stated in the marketing) then I would look for another training provider. This does not only go for the above mentioned ATO but any ATO where the contract gives them the right to terminate you after having completed very little of the training program and keep 100% of the tuition fee. In the example above it shows what effects a governmentally sponsored student loan-scheme has on the terms and conditions and the training program. Where the student needs to choose what the student loan fund will approve, rather than which training provider they want. The ultimate decision always rests with the student, to follow or not follow the dream. In this specific case it ended as a nightmare (rarely stated in the marketing).
Join Date: Nov 2018
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You’re right, I’d rather call you oldtimer based off your comments.
You have a very stale view and minset with regards to schooling, this isn’t the 1930’s anymore, the village teacher isn’t the most intelligent person in the vicinity and we no longer bow for the mayor.
