L3 VS CAE VS Leading Edge vs FTA- What is the best choice 2021?
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@RedDragonFlyer: Well to fly by IFR and build IR hours as PIC hours someone would have to pass the IR before passing the CPL(A) and then do the remaining necessary PIC hours in IR. Its the only way I believe would work. During the pandemic even thought about it in order to get 200 IR hours (ofc if you do not have your own aircraft with proper avionics it would be extremely expensive (not only cost of the fuel) to fly 170 extra hours just burning holes in the sky) for IRI(A) + 30 ME PIC hours for CRI. But kind of will see what happens after doing the postponed IR/ME + CPL(A) and FI(A) traning that is already waiting for me since 2020.
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Cons:
You'll have to 'upgrade' to an MEIR at some point. But the 'add-on' course only requires 5 MEP hours rather than 15.
You'll have to do 2 IR tests. So what? You'll be doing 2 a year for the rest of your career.
You won't have any/much SIM time. Not really a problem 40 hours is more than enough to get an IR
The advantages of an SEIR for anyone flight training in the current climate are:
1) It 'saves' the ATPL exams for minimal cost.
2) It puts you within 6 weeks of the finish line (MCC)
3) It adds a gloss of recency to your CV - the things airlines actually care about (MEIR and MCC) will be brand new.
You'll have to 'upgrade' to an MEIR at some point. But the 'add-on' course only requires 5 MEP hours rather than 15.
You'll have to do 2 IR tests. So what? You'll be doing 2 a year for the rest of your career.
You won't have any/much SIM time. Not really a problem 40 hours is more than enough to get an IR
The advantages of an SEIR for anyone flight training in the current climate are:
1) It 'saves' the ATPL exams for minimal cost.
2) It puts you within 6 weeks of the finish line (MCC)
3) It adds a gloss of recency to your CV - the things airlines actually care about (MEIR and MCC) will be brand new.
Nothing wrong with the above, certainly agree. Though do think it is important to note that more experience in a twin and also in Jet Orientation goes a long way for sim assessments with cadet recruitment with airlines who fly jets. I have been told by various sim assessors that there is often an obvious difference in skills between someone who has gone through the Integrated route or spent well on an APS-MCC (or AQC-JOC/MCC) compared to someone who has spent the least amount possible just to obtain a CPL MEIR, perhaps with a cheap MCC on the side.
Obviously depends on what who you want to fly for, but if going for jets, don’t compromise on MEP or jet sim time - and keep that sim time current (even if fixed base etc.)
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KT1988 Yes, I get that. However, the poster suggested that the hours completed actually doing the IR course would be a part of the hour building. Unless I am misreading/ misunderstanding, that is how he works it out to be such good value financially.
That's why I asked in the post if there were more detailed information on doing such a thing online.
That's why I asked in the post if there were more detailed information on doing such a thing online.
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@RedDragonFlyer: Well I believe what he meant was that hours done in the IR course count towards the total hours since for CPL(A) you only need 100 PIC hours but you need 200 hours total. So if you did not do much above the mandatory 45 to complete the PPL(A) you need kind of some more hours than the 100 PIC hours and the hours done during the CPL(A) training with instructor.
The reason I'm an advocate of the IR-first approach is in part because I didn't do it myself, but wish I had.
I followed the standard PPL then 100 PIC route, got the CPL then did most of my IR training in the SIM. When you look at what some places charge for a SIM+instructor it's comparable with an hour building rate in a cheap single.
It would take some planning, but assuming 35 hours dual for the PPL, 40 for the IR and 15 for the CPL that's 90 hours dual, 10 as a buffer and 100 PIC is still possible.
Let's say you upgrade your C152 to an IFR PA28 for an extra £40 an hour - that's £1600 extra. Add in the cost of 40 hours IR instruction and that's the core cost of your IR if done first.
The points about fewer MEP hours are valid, but it's a cheaper option. You could also choose to do 100 hours of MEP hour building if money is no option. Ultimately it's up to you to find where you feel comfortable on the spectrum.
It's unlikely that you'd have any asymmetric work in a cadet assessment, so MEP experience isn't really too important (you can either fly an ILS or can't) which means that the MCC is really the only thing that's comparable to jet flying, so choose wisely and do it in a relevant type.
I followed the standard PPL then 100 PIC route, got the CPL then did most of my IR training in the SIM. When you look at what some places charge for a SIM+instructor it's comparable with an hour building rate in a cheap single.
It would take some planning, but assuming 35 hours dual for the PPL, 40 for the IR and 15 for the CPL that's 90 hours dual, 10 as a buffer and 100 PIC is still possible.
Let's say you upgrade your C152 to an IFR PA28 for an extra £40 an hour - that's £1600 extra. Add in the cost of 40 hours IR instruction and that's the core cost of your IR if done first.
The points about fewer MEP hours are valid, but it's a cheaper option. You could also choose to do 100 hours of MEP hour building if money is no option. Ultimately it's up to you to find where you feel comfortable on the spectrum.
It's unlikely that you'd have any asymmetric work in a cadet assessment, so MEP experience isn't really too important (you can either fly an ILS or can't) which means that the MCC is really the only thing that's comparable to jet flying, so choose wisely and do it in a relevant type.
de minimus non curat lex
The absolutely critical part comes next.
The MCC/APS course. Some providers are dual approved by EASA & UK CAA. This may be an important factor for those who are issued with both licences.
Now the simulator. Whilst this is not a type course, a Boeing 737-800 is,
in my view, a better preparation for that all important sim ride when hand flying and trimming amongst other skills will be assessed.
The Airbus is clearly a far more sophisticated machine and it trims for you; so having to trim for the first time on a Boeing sim ride might prove somewhat of a challenge?
As RUDESTUFF quite rightly says, choose wisely.
Educated Hillbilly
Just to add for UK pilots there is the option of doing the IRR, after which the IRR privileges can be used to accumulate p1 IFR time (due attention should be given the difference between IFR and FSRI, ie flying under the hood in class G en route with a safety pilot is P1 but not IFR, but any practice IF approaches could be logged p1 IFR).So yes for UK PPL holders with an IRR you can do IFR hour building, that would allow a IRR holder to accumulate the 40 hours IFR as a requisite for the CB IR. 15 hours from the IRR and potentially the remainder 25 from using the IRR.
Not L3, really bad news. Overpriced and not as advertised.
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Correct. Utter shambles. Bournemouth and Portugal to be closed by end of June. They’re still sending a lot of students to train at Leading Edge! Why not just go direct to them and save some money?
L3 want out of European flight training (if not flight training altogether) and will consolidate in Florida.
L3 want out of European flight training (if not flight training altogether) and will consolidate in Florida.
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Correct. Utter shambles. Bournemouth and Portugal to be closed by end of June. They’re still sending a lot of students to train at Leading Edge! Why not just go direct to them and save some money?
L3 want out of European flight training (if not flight training altogether) and will consolidate in Florida.
L3 want out of European flight training (if not flight training altogether) and will consolidate in Florida.
Try Skyborne at Gloucester/Vero Beach.
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No connections with Skyborne, but have seen their operation and know their business operation. They seem to have ‘the right stuff’ and would get my vote. Some good people there running it too.
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Leading edge announced 6 fully funded scholarship positions with FI rating today - strange considering their financial position. £50 initial assessment fee, further £250 in fees if you progress. Something tells me it wouldn't be the wisest move to apply
Last edited by Arena_33; 5th Nov 2022 at 17:40.
What’s the risk? Get most of the way through training and they go bust? Take your ATPL credit and 100 hours and go finish it off for pennies elsewhere..! Bust after training, great, that’s the bond gone!
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There's no doubt that this is a fantastic opportunity for those successful and hats off to LE for making real steps in the right direction. But it's obvious to see that asking everyone to pay up to £300 to apply whether you are successful or not will go a fair way to allow LE to fund this programme if people apply in big numbers. Worth noting LE haven't been charging for selection until this opportunity was announced... funny that.
Always been a big believer that it's disappointing enough not to be selected for such an opportunity, letalone end up £300 out of pocket for trying. Aviation has to be one of the only industries that charges for unsuccessful applicants?!? But fear not if you join one of the self funded courses they'll refund the selection fee..Go figure...
Always been a big believer that it's disappointing enough not to be selected for such an opportunity, letalone end up £300 out of pocket for trying. Aviation has to be one of the only industries that charges for unsuccessful applicants?!? But fear not if you join one of the self funded courses they'll refund the selection fee..Go figure...
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Lot's of experienced FIs leaving, to be replaced by fresh student graduates in 16 months time, what could go wrong.
2 year bond to repay 115k, be interesting to see how that got by finance.
2 year bond to repay 115k, be interesting to see how that got by finance.