Length of Full Commercial Pilot Training?
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Quite a bit of bickering in this thread. I think what's ideal and what was done 30 years ago isn't really relevant to this thread.
The problem is though, the question is not too different to how long is a piece of string. It varies dramatically based on the amount of hours per week you study/ can study, the school where you train at, the weather, your aptitude, plane/ instructor availability, the time between finishing one part and starting the next amongst a whole raft of other things.
The order modular students take courses are PPL, ATPL exams with night rating and hour building either during or just after, CPL-IR and finally MCC/ APS. Based on my personal experience and that of people I know, average times to do each part are:
1) PPL - 1.5 months to 6 months.
2) Night Rating - A few days and could be done during ATPL exams.
2) ATPL Exams - 6 months to 12 months.
3) Hour Building - You could do it along with the ATPL exams or you could go to Florida for 1 month. It's really up to you and there are pros and cons of both.
4) CPL/ IR/ MEP - 2.5 months to 5 months.
5) MCC/ APS - Less than a month.
There's also UPRT that needs to be done now. I haven't done it, but I think it's just a few days at most.
What you can see is it could be done in a year if you were very able and lucky; and I am sure there's someone on this forum who managed to do it in 11 months. That would be rather unusual though. Most people take 18-24 months. I wouldn't exactly call 18-24 months 'leisurely' as another posted did. There will be times are great intensity and stress in that time with less intense periods too.
Some might say it's impossible for someone to take 6 months to do a PPL if they are flying full-time unless they were useless, but I have seen it done. If you are studying in NW Europe in the winter, there could be week after week after week of bad weather. No sensible instructor would let a PPL student solo in marginal weather either - it needs to be good. I personally waited over four weeks between booking the skills test and actually doing it because the examiner was away on holiday for a week and two flights were cancelled due to poor weather. Stuff happens!
The other thing I'd say is that it isn't a race. It's much better to take 24 months and do it well than to rush and do it in 12 months. If you aren't ready to sit an ATPL exam, don't do it. For many airlines, your average score or number of first time passes is extremely important so a fail or scraping a pass isn't really ideal. Better to give yourself an extra month to ensure you are exam ready. If your ideal school has a waiting list of a few months and a school with a poor reputation which you visited and didn't like has a start date of tomorrow morning, it's probably better to wait for the other school.
Edit: I started typing this before spitfirejock posted and I didn't see it until after I had posted. What he says makes sense.
The problem is though, the question is not too different to how long is a piece of string. It varies dramatically based on the amount of hours per week you study/ can study, the school where you train at, the weather, your aptitude, plane/ instructor availability, the time between finishing one part and starting the next amongst a whole raft of other things.
The order modular students take courses are PPL, ATPL exams with night rating and hour building either during or just after, CPL-IR and finally MCC/ APS. Based on my personal experience and that of people I know, average times to do each part are:
1) PPL - 1.5 months to 6 months.
2) Night Rating - A few days and could be done during ATPL exams.
2) ATPL Exams - 6 months to 12 months.
3) Hour Building - You could do it along with the ATPL exams or you could go to Florida for 1 month. It's really up to you and there are pros and cons of both.
4) CPL/ IR/ MEP - 2.5 months to 5 months.
5) MCC/ APS - Less than a month.
There's also UPRT that needs to be done now. I haven't done it, but I think it's just a few days at most.
What you can see is it could be done in a year if you were very able and lucky; and I am sure there's someone on this forum who managed to do it in 11 months. That would be rather unusual though. Most people take 18-24 months. I wouldn't exactly call 18-24 months 'leisurely' as another posted did. There will be times are great intensity and stress in that time with less intense periods too.
Some might say it's impossible for someone to take 6 months to do a PPL if they are flying full-time unless they were useless, but I have seen it done. If you are studying in NW Europe in the winter, there could be week after week after week of bad weather. No sensible instructor would let a PPL student solo in marginal weather either - it needs to be good. I personally waited over four weeks between booking the skills test and actually doing it because the examiner was away on holiday for a week and two flights were cancelled due to poor weather. Stuff happens!
The other thing I'd say is that it isn't a race. It's much better to take 24 months and do it well than to rush and do it in 12 months. If you aren't ready to sit an ATPL exam, don't do it. For many airlines, your average score or number of first time passes is extremely important so a fail or scraping a pass isn't really ideal. Better to give yourself an extra month to ensure you are exam ready. If your ideal school has a waiting list of a few months and a school with a poor reputation which you visited and didn't like has a start date of tomorrow morning, it's probably better to wait for the other school.
Edit: I started typing this before spitfirejock posted and I didn't see it until after I had posted. What he says makes sense.
de minimus non curat lex
What I found is that depending if it were full blown written exams or multi guess style determines the way in which you learn.
My UK ATCO exams in the 1980s were written, including a 2 hour radar theory paper. Started off with learn and churn stuff about PRI / PRF.
Then questions involved into a thinking style.
What are the considerations necessary when installing an Area Search Radar (250nm range in the South Atlantic). Topical at the time.
The papers were marked before the Oral Board, which would then probe any less than satisfactory written answers, in addition to any other Area Radar topics which took their fancy.
With multi guess ATPLs, I found you put nuggets of information into pigeon holes.
The Oral Board is the airline interview.
An education psychologist is best placed to explain how the brain learns and retains information.
My UK ATCO exams in the 1980s were written, including a 2 hour radar theory paper. Started off with learn and churn stuff about PRI / PRF.
Then questions involved into a thinking style.
What are the considerations necessary when installing an Area Search Radar (250nm range in the South Atlantic). Topical at the time.
The papers were marked before the Oral Board, which would then probe any less than satisfactory written answers, in addition to any other Area Radar topics which took their fancy.
With multi guess ATPLs, I found you put nuggets of information into pigeon holes.
The Oral Board is the airline interview.
An education psychologist is best placed to explain how the brain learns and retains information.
If you are happy to just know the minimum required by the regulator, then fine. But some are eager to have superiour knowledge compared to the bare minimum required and prefer not to just learn the questionbank ( they should eliminate that) by heart.
staring at a whiteboard? No, but we had orals, internal exams ( fail and you are a gonner by the way) ,essays, had to explain topics to the whole promotion,... the current requirements are a sad joke.
staring at a whiteboard? No, but we had orals, internal exams ( fail and you are a gonner by the way) ,essays, had to explain topics to the whole promotion,... the current requirements are a sad joke.
But when it comes to ATPL theory, it just doesn’t help you when you’re in an airline, being unbelievable at drawing lines on polar stereographic maps isn’t going to help you on a four sector day.
And most face to face groundschool is done by schools on a full time basis, usually over six months. What your proposing would look like this:
’Hi training school, I’d look to do your groundschool course please, how long will it take’
’Well, provided you put the work in and don’t have too many issues, should take about six months’
’Oh, I’m actually after something of at least a year’
’Even if you pass all the exams to a high standard as required by the regulator, get good marks and have a good understanding of the material?’
’No I still absolutely want to train for twelve months’
’So you want to watch all your course mates go on to flying and start working six months earlier than you? Yet you’d rather shell out another few thousand to re-cover material you’ve already got strong pass marks in and have absolutely no further practical use for and delay your career by six months?’
’Yes.’
The school will look at you like you’ve got 2 heads. They’ll take your money (why wouldn’t they) but you’ll be on your own and be the first and last person to do something so bizarre.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
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English is not my first language. It is, however the most common official language of aviation. Don't let the French tell you otherwise.
Having read all the comments I’ve seen the error of my ways and changed my mind, I’m going to hand back my licence until such time as I have completed 400,000 hours of mass and balance calculations for a 50 year old aircraft using a slide rule and a piece of pink string. Can’t believe how reckless I’ve been so far in only achieving the required licence standard from the regulator and not first translating and writing out all of the learning objectives into 58 different languages to achieve full comprehension.
Just for my benefit, is it worth me also learning to play the piano up to concert pianist level just in case I have to divert to a regional airport and the only way I can raise the money to afford spares due to lack of local currency is to work as an accompanying musician at a local jazz bar? Is it acceptable to learn using an electric keyboard at least for the first few years or would that make me an even worse pilot?
Just for my benefit, is it worth me also learning to play the piano up to concert pianist level just in case I have to divert to a regional airport and the only way I can raise the money to afford spares due to lack of local currency is to work as an accompanying musician at a local jazz bar? Is it acceptable to learn using an electric keyboard at least for the first few years or would that make me an even worse pilot?
