easyJet MPL - continue or stop
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As others have articulated, it has worked extremely well in the past. We always knew there was a risk of things not working out but no-one could have predicted a pandemic!
Anyway, I've finished ground school and terminated myself... back to my previous career until this ****show blows over.
Incredibly, I've heard anecdotal evidence that some people are considering continuing with a "whitetail" MPL... lost for words.
Anyway, I've finished ground school and terminated myself... back to my previous career until this ****show blows over.
Incredibly, I've heard anecdotal evidence that some people are considering continuing with a "whitetail" MPL... lost for words.
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Wiggy,
Sadly there has been a steady deterioration in T&Cs for future Birdmen going all the way back way beyond when i started out in 2006. Back then I was able to attend a very competitive selection process (3-5% pass rate at the time) and take out an unsecured loan of 50k as a training bond. This bond covered my training costs (inc TR - paid for by the airline) and was then repaid back to me over a period of years when I joined the airline at the end of my training course.
These days, the generation easyJet program has replaced what I did and every year more and more risk/cost is put on prospective cadets. We now find ourselves at the end of the line where it is no longer feasible. Something will have to change going forwards as neither the salary, contracts or T&Cs will merit the initial financial investment. I don't expect it will ever go back to the good ol days, far from it sadly.
From the inside it really feels like this industry is dying. It´s sad, it really is.
Sadly there has been a steady deterioration in T&Cs for future Birdmen going all the way back way beyond when i started out in 2006. Back then I was able to attend a very competitive selection process (3-5% pass rate at the time) and take out an unsecured loan of 50k as a training bond. This bond covered my training costs (inc TR - paid for by the airline) and was then repaid back to me over a period of years when I joined the airline at the end of my training course.
These days, the generation easyJet program has replaced what I did and every year more and more risk/cost is put on prospective cadets. We now find ourselves at the end of the line where it is no longer feasible. Something will have to change going forwards as neither the salary, contracts or T&Cs will merit the initial financial investment. I don't expect it will ever go back to the good ol days, far from it sadly.
From the inside it really feels like this industry is dying. It´s sad, it really is.
If the airlines were still responsible for training their own from ab-intio we would not be where we are now- i.e. the ATOs being stand alone businesses are not going to stop training, they have absolutely no interest in anything other than selling courses...
FWIW I've seen this going on in the civilian world since the late 80's and went through a very very selective system well prior to that when joining the military...yes, I'm that old...and yes, I'm also aware the "past is another country".
de minimus non curat lex
If the beancounters can get away with minimum risk, and transferring it in many cases, to the bank of Mum & Dad, that is exactly what they will do.
When we eventually emerge from this tsunami, it is possible that a significant imbalance between Supply & Demand will occur, to such an extent, that the beancounters will need to rethink their previous strategy.
The tide might eventually turn where financial sponsorship is the only way to entice perspective trainees?
Aer Lingus were the only ‘nice’ employer, fully sponsoring their cadets.
A previous BA scheme repaid the initial training costs once on line over time, with an adjusted salary. Probably close to fiscally neutral to appease the beancounters?
These dark days will pass. Those doing their GCSE this year followed by ‘A’ levels and then higher education may well be ideally placed for the Industry.
When we eventually emerge from this tsunami, it is possible that a significant imbalance between Supply & Demand will occur, to such an extent, that the beancounters will need to rethink their previous strategy.
The tide might eventually turn where financial sponsorship is the only way to entice perspective trainees?
Aer Lingus were the only ‘nice’ employer, fully sponsoring their cadets.
A previous BA scheme repaid the initial training costs once on line over time, with an adjusted salary. Probably close to fiscally neutral to appease the beancounters?
These dark days will pass. Those doing their GCSE this year followed by ‘A’ levels and then higher education may well be ideally placed for the Industry.
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ezymplcae
I know that people like me are considered trolls. But when considering a career as a Pilot in the modern Aviation world, young people and their parents need to be very aware of the facts. The truth is that the major FTO's are the most unscrupulous salesmen that exist. They appear very professional as much as maybe you'd expect from a Harley street Doctor when trusting them with your life.
In truth the British Airline industry is already flooded with Pilots, the rest of Europe simply has too many. This is without considering the pandemic.
But the Pandemic is not a surprise situation. It's normal as an event. These events hit the Airline industry every 10 years (+/-). The last event was the financial crisis. The surprise there was that we recovered so quickly (within 5 years), the reason for our recovery was due to high demand for expat Pilots from the middle East and China. That demand will not come again because those countries now train their own citizens, much to the consternation of the expats.
Prior to that it was 9/11, again we only suffered for 2 years because the growth of the European low cost Airlines was exponential at that time, that will not happen again.
When entering a flight school and paying a large sum of money, it needs to be seen as a very high risk investment, therefore you would not put money in that you couldn't afford to lose.
Don't go thinking that there'll be jobs in 18 months time. If BA, Easyjet, Ryanair survive this then they will be highly indebted companies with little ability to be competitive and to grow. As Willie Walsh recently discussed. We also don't know the effect of Brexit on the industry.
I know that people like me are considered trolls. But when considering a career as a Pilot in the modern Aviation world, young people and their parents need to be very aware of the facts. The truth is that the major FTO's are the most unscrupulous salesmen that exist. They appear very professional as much as maybe you'd expect from a Harley street Doctor when trusting them with your life.
In truth the British Airline industry is already flooded with Pilots, the rest of Europe simply has too many. This is without considering the pandemic.
But the Pandemic is not a surprise situation. It's normal as an event. These events hit the Airline industry every 10 years (+/-). The last event was the financial crisis. The surprise there was that we recovered so quickly (within 5 years), the reason for our recovery was due to high demand for expat Pilots from the middle East and China. That demand will not come again because those countries now train their own citizens, much to the consternation of the expats.
Prior to that it was 9/11, again we only suffered for 2 years because the growth of the European low cost Airlines was exponential at that time, that will not happen again.
When entering a flight school and paying a large sum of money, it needs to be seen as a very high risk investment, therefore you would not put money in that you couldn't afford to lose.
Don't go thinking that there'll be jobs in 18 months time. If BA, Easyjet, Ryanair survive this then they will be highly indebted companies with little ability to be competitive and to grow. As Willie Walsh recently discussed. We also don't know the effect of Brexit on the industry.
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Hi, I'm not suggesting you are a troll albeit I would say that your post comes across as slightly condescending.
If you'd read my initial post you'd also know that it wasn't my parents' money I was using but my own, hard-earned cash. You seem to suggest there wasn't a shortage of pilots prior to the pandemic ... what about the IATA projections showing a shortage of pilots pre-Covid? As for a pandemic not being a surprise event... come off of it. I have a finance background - the level of fiscal spending and action taken by central banks to prop up ailing economies is unprecedented. The impact of Covid on financial markets has been far more significant than the 2008 crisis. This is mirrored in the impact on aviation.
I take the point that aviation is cyclical and appreciate your points regarding recruitment not being a realistic prospect for a good while. I would agree with you in that respect.
If you'd read my initial post you'd also know that it wasn't my parents' money I was using but my own, hard-earned cash. You seem to suggest there wasn't a shortage of pilots prior to the pandemic ... what about the IATA projections showing a shortage of pilots pre-Covid? As for a pandemic not being a surprise event... come off of it. I have a finance background - the level of fiscal spending and action taken by central banks to prop up ailing economies is unprecedented. The impact of Covid on financial markets has been far more significant than the 2008 crisis. This is mirrored in the impact on aviation.
I take the point that aviation is cyclical and appreciate your points regarding recruitment not being a realistic prospect for a good while. I would agree with you in that respect.
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There has never, ever, in my 40 years of flying been a true shortage of Pilots. There has always been a source of Pilots to Airlines from somewhere. As for future projections, in my view they are a sales gimic to attract the unwary. If you take 3 good years of Pilot demand and growth, then project that growth forward 20 years, you get an exponential curve which is completely unrealistic (it totally disregards the history of regular downturns).
The Aircraft manufacturers themselves have different factions. You've got the salesmen that need to convince people that there'll be a massive shortage of Pilots over the coming years in order to ensure an abundance of Crew to meet their sales requirements. On the other hand you have the Aircraft development team (at Airbus) selling the fact that Aircraft will be semi-Autonomous by the mid 30's. They can't have it both ways but yet they do because the different departments have different goals.
If you've been on an MPL course, in my opinion, stick with it the best you can. There is going to be a long term glut of Pilots. If you've done the MPL then there's a chance of a queue jump.
The Aircraft manufacturers themselves have different factions. You've got the salesmen that need to convince people that there'll be a massive shortage of Pilots over the coming years in order to ensure an abundance of Crew to meet their sales requirements. On the other hand you have the Aircraft development team (at Airbus) selling the fact that Aircraft will be semi-Autonomous by the mid 30's. They can't have it both ways but yet they do because the different departments have different goals.
If you've been on an MPL course, in my opinion, stick with it the best you can. There is going to be a long term glut of Pilots. If you've done the MPL then there's a chance of a queue jump.
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don't worry for me indeed, I fly in corporate.
and I really encourage all young pilots to follow modular route during this period (save money and can work beside).
my two cents
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Flying is not what it used to be, its scraping by on a low wage and hard when you have commitments and often being treated like a naughty schoolboy.
Its a very tough job and the shine comes off pretty quick, the older you are the harder it is.
I would not allow any of my children to become a pilot.
Spend your money on becoming a good Lawyer, Dr, Dentist then spend your spare cash in an aircraft share.....
Its a very tough job and the shine comes off pretty quick, the older you are the harder it is.
I would not allow any of my children to become a pilot.
Spend your money on becoming a good Lawyer, Dr, Dentist then spend your spare cash in an aircraft share.....
DontBeStupid
‘Very tough job’? Picture a 5 hour flight to Larnaca. Autopilot in at 500’, newspaper out at 20,000’. Sit there for four hours reading, snacking, chatting, hanging out in the galley. 100NM until descent have a quick chat, select a brake setting. 20,000’ descent newspaper away, autopilot out at 500’, land.
Solid 10 minutes of actual work has taken place, if that. Compare that to a lawyer making similar money to do 60 hour weeks staring at a laptop screen getting hounded for work, no thanks!
‘Very tough job’? Picture a 5 hour flight to Larnaca. Autopilot in at 500’, newspaper out at 20,000’. Sit there for four hours reading, snacking, chatting, hanging out in the galley. 100NM until descent have a quick chat, select a brake setting. 20,000’ descent newspaper away, autopilot out at 500’, land.
Solid 10 minutes of actual work has taken place, if that. Compare that to a lawyer making similar money to do 60 hour weeks staring at a laptop screen getting hounded for work, no thanks!
de minimus non curat lex
Another analogy for wannabes to consider of airline work once airborne.
Your mother wants you to sit in front of the washing machine which has been set to program (xx).
You have the book of instructions which details the various timings of the washing cycles for the program.
Your mission, if you choose to accept it Jim, is to watch the machine performance to ensure that “it does what it says on the tin”.
Exciting stuff?
How often has the washing machine broken down whilst operating ?
Once in a blue moon probably?
Get the picture...............?
(the under arm test)
Your mother wants you to sit in front of the washing machine which has been set to program (xx).
You have the book of instructions which details the various timings of the washing cycles for the program.
Your mission, if you choose to accept it Jim, is to watch the machine performance to ensure that “it does what it says on the tin”.
Exciting stuff?
How often has the washing machine broken down whilst operating ?
Once in a blue moon probably?
Get the picture...............?
(the under arm test)
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exactly, don't be jealouse DBS, this job is so 
easy actually , when things go well as 99,99% of the time anyway. (0,01% is the recurrent training haha)
free chat from 10000ft, 20 min of rest during cruise, coffee, eating, coffee, and the nicest thing : you get paid to look outside.
In corporate no stress (no 20min turn around), just wait lol . you can take this time to read, massage, and learn online courses as I do...
It's even easier than being a bus driver! (stressful job in heavy traffic or agressions)
easy actually , when things go well as 99,99% of the time anyway. (0,01% is the recurrent training haha)free chat from 10000ft, 20 min of rest during cruise, coffee, eating, coffee, and the nicest thing : you get paid to look outside.
In corporate no stress (no 20min turn around), just wait lol . you can take this time to read, massage, and learn online courses as I do...
It's even easier than being a bus driver! (stressful job in heavy traffic or agressions)
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'Don't be stupid'? Really? What a load of nonsense.
I tend to agree with VP. I have been flying 25 years and love it as much as I did when I started flying in 1995. If you have the passion, the 'shine' as 'Don't be Stupid' puts it, will never wear off. Ever lugged boxes around a supermarket doing night shifts for £5 per hour, that is hard work.
I agree that the job isn't what is used to be in terms of T's and C's etc, however that is a trend across a lot of industry, not just the airlines.
I would support anyone who wanted to be a pilot, I think its a great job. In all the years I spent instructing and airline flying I didnt ever not want to go, thoroughly enjoyed it and 99% of the time the job is very straight forward.
I tend to agree with VP. I have been flying 25 years and love it as much as I did when I started flying in 1995. If you have the passion, the 'shine' as 'Don't be Stupid' puts it, will never wear off. Ever lugged boxes around a supermarket doing night shifts for £5 per hour, that is hard work.
I agree that the job isn't what is used to be in terms of T's and C's etc, however that is a trend across a lot of industry, not just the airlines.
I would support anyone who wanted to be a pilot, I think its a great job. In all the years I spent instructing and airline flying I didnt ever not want to go, thoroughly enjoyed it and 99% of the time the job is very straight forward.
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If CAE are contracting Volotea to conduct base training on completion of an Easyjet MPL course, Part-FCL Subpart E, Appendix 5 and specifically the GM detailing the MPL Training Scheme would be rendered invalid - it's not only phases 2 - 4 but the entire course that is subject to the "specific arrangement...between an ATO and an operator" including pre-entry screening and selection, provision of base training and everything in-between. The concept of a "whitetail' MPL does not float from a regulatory perspective.
Last edited by Reverserbucket; 12th Nov 2020 at 21:12.