easyJet MPL - continue or stop
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: GB
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What does your training contract say with regards to employment with easyJet once finished with the course? Do they have a clause to completely drop you?
It is a tough situation to be in but I don't think carrying on with the course is the worst idea. Provided you do finish the MPL with easyJet SOPs etc. and they keep you in a hold pool once finishing your training then chances are you'd be near the front of the queue when recruitment does start up. I would think Ryanair and easyJet would be the first airlines to recover and start recruiting again, by going modular you would have a fair chance at getting Ryanair but you'd be giving up the (not guaranteed but as good as you'll get at the moment) place with easyJet. Although this has been changing recently, easyJet haven't been that keen on taking cadets from schools other than CAE, L3/CTC and FTE. I would think cadets in the easyJet hold pool will still be getting jobs faster than a modular pilot finishing at the same time. You could also go back to working your previous job while waiting for a start date.
By going modular you would save a fair bit of money and it would give you greater flexibility but I would think staying on your course would probably give you a higher chance of getting a job and would get you one faster (provided easyJet don't go bust). Could you discuss with CAE whether you would still be tagged if you went ATPL?
easyJet know that if their MPL cadets were to end up with a 'worthless' license then they'd never be able to run another MPL cadet course and that's something I think they will try hard to avoid.
It is a tough situation to be in but I don't think carrying on with the course is the worst idea. Provided you do finish the MPL with easyJet SOPs etc. and they keep you in a hold pool once finishing your training then chances are you'd be near the front of the queue when recruitment does start up. I would think Ryanair and easyJet would be the first airlines to recover and start recruiting again, by going modular you would have a fair chance at getting Ryanair but you'd be giving up the (not guaranteed but as good as you'll get at the moment) place with easyJet. Although this has been changing recently, easyJet haven't been that keen on taking cadets from schools other than CAE, L3/CTC and FTE. I would think cadets in the easyJet hold pool will still be getting jobs faster than a modular pilot finishing at the same time. You could also go back to working your previous job while waiting for a start date.
By going modular you would save a fair bit of money and it would give you greater flexibility but I would think staying on your course would probably give you a higher chance of getting a job and would get you one faster (provided easyJet don't go bust). Could you discuss with CAE whether you would still be tagged if you went ATPL?
easyJet know that if their MPL cadets were to end up with a 'worthless' license then they'd never be able to run another MPL cadet course and that's something I think they will try hard to avoid.
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or do you mean that if another airline should want to take you on, they would carry out the base training?
The former I would be very concerned about. It effectively makes it a “whitetail MPL” course, presumably with some preference for hiring by EasyJet if recruitment picks up, but no guarantees. Of course this is most beneficial for CAE who get to lock in the profit they make from you completing the course. A better option, if you had a strong preference to stay in the MPL route, would be to pause your training once you’ve completed your ATPL exams and return to it should market conditions improve. Is this an option CAE are offering?
de minimus non curat lex
MPL
Macdo / Jetstream Alpha
My understanding of the awful predicament MPL trainees find themselves in, is that EZY have “pulled the plug” i.a.w. the contract. Force Majeure.
It is not as if the airline has paused the training with the prospect of resumption when ever.
Without their agreement, it is simply not possible to continue the course, as phase 4, the type rating conducted by the airline or contractor, with base training then conducted by the airline itself.
They are hardly going to reach the point of licence issue and then not continue with the line training.
When EZY recognised the impact of the tsunami, they took the unfortunate but correct decisive action.
A significant number of their pilots will suffer CR if recent reports are correct.
Recency is clearly a critical issue. Some might decide to pay for the first LPC post employment?
Crystal balls will remain opaque until at least 2021. What will improve acuity is a vaccine; also market confidence which will be dependent upon continued employment for the general public.
If CR significantly threatens them, the economic cycle will fall of a cliff.
Market confidence will be the catalyst to an economic upturn.
Boris was hoping for a ‘V” shaped recovery. Probably closer to a “U” shaped one?
My understanding of the awful predicament MPL trainees find themselves in, is that EZY have “pulled the plug” i.a.w. the contract. Force Majeure.
It is not as if the airline has paused the training with the prospect of resumption when ever.
Without their agreement, it is simply not possible to continue the course, as phase 4, the type rating conducted by the airline or contractor, with base training then conducted by the airline itself.
They are hardly going to reach the point of licence issue and then not continue with the line training.
When EZY recognised the impact of the tsunami, they took the unfortunate but correct decisive action.
A significant number of their pilots will suffer CR if recent reports are correct.
Recency is clearly a critical issue. Some might decide to pay for the first LPC post employment?
Crystal balls will remain opaque until at least 2021. What will improve acuity is a vaccine; also market confidence which will be dependent upon continued employment for the general public.
If CR significantly threatens them, the economic cycle will fall of a cliff.
Market confidence will be the catalyst to an economic upturn.
Boris was hoping for a ‘V” shaped recovery. Probably closer to a “U” shaped one?
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fair enough, I didn't realise that EZ had done that. Unless EZ put up a strong indication that they will attempt to honour the original agreement, then to continue is very speculative. I'm betting on a U shape recovery with a very slow upswing, even allowing for a vaccine people seem to be thinking differently about air travel and many will never come back. That said, the young in particular have short memories and a more open attitude to risk, so 2024 may be a good year to get back into aviation.
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Crawley
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I’ve heard, EasyJet have not been in communication with those MPL cadets who had not completed ground school before lockdown. There has also been no communication from CAE about the future relationship, if any, with EasyJet. However CAE have outsourced base training to Volotea in order to obtain the licences, but without the offer of a job.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: London
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi, another airline will conduct the base training - not easyJet. From CAE comms, this will be a long term arrangement.
easyJet have not been in touch with cadets at all, sadly. Reading between the lines, the term "whitetail" mpl is, I think, accurate.
easyJet have not been in touch with cadets at all, sadly. Reading between the lines, the term "whitetail" mpl is, I think, accurate.
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Fleet
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get PPL done at a flying club and build on your own.
Get ATPL learning done by distance learning, with an ATO for the exams (Austro Control rather than CAA).
Build your own flying hours.
Start with the serious money after for MEIRs and beyond.
Personally, I want to know who regulates some of these cowboy money taking flight
Get ATPL learning done by distance learning, with an ATO for the exams (Austro Control rather than CAA).
Build your own flying hours.
Start with the serious money after for MEIRs and beyond.
Personally, I want to know who regulates some of these cowboy money taking flight
de minimus non curat lex
One of the fundamental aspects is that your adopt the SOPs of the airline to which you are attached throughout the simulator phases 2 - 4.
To stand any chance for the future, the best you could do is to adopt Airbus standard SOPs assuming you were previously attached to EZY.
Regulatory approval for this novel approach would be wise.
Just how employable you might be against the other route with a CPL/IR issued remains to be seen, as you are limiting yourself to the phase 4 aircraft specific (unless you undertake a further type rating course after licence issue) and I suspect those operators who have experience of the MPL pathway.
Some might say a very ‘courageous’ decision.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If CAE are contracting Volotea to conduct base training on completion of an Easyjet MPL course, Part-FCL Subpart E, Appendix 5 and specifically the GM detailing the MPL Training Scheme would be rendered invalid - it's not only phases 2 - 4 but the entire course that is subject to the "specific arrangement...between an ATO and an operator" including pre-entry screening and selection, provision of base training and everything in-between. The concept of a "whitetail' MPL does not float from a regulatory perspective.
My advice would always be to stick with anything that provides a secure opportunity to join an airline on successful completion, but in the case of MPL, I'm really not sure that the job is much more than an inference (unless specified otherwise in a contract between the end-operator and the buyer). In principal, MPL is good for the trainee, good for the training provider and ultimately, good for the operator but there is significantly greater risk attached to a course of training so dependant on the end user when the market turns south or is impacted adversely, and there is evidence to support this both from current MPL employers and others (a number of Flybe MPL cadet's have been left stranded with nothing of tangible value following the collapse for example).
Andrew Lavery asked
In this case, EASA and the oversight body is Trafikstyrelsen - the Danish Transport, Building and Construction Authority.
My advice would always be to stick with anything that provides a secure opportunity to join an airline on successful completion, but in the case of MPL, I'm really not sure that the job is much more than an inference (unless specified otherwise in a contract between the end-operator and the buyer). In principal, MPL is good for the trainee, good for the training provider and ultimately, good for the operator but there is significantly greater risk attached to a course of training so dependant on the end user when the market turns south or is impacted adversely, and there is evidence to support this both from current MPL employers and others (a number of Flybe MPL cadet's have been left stranded with nothing of tangible value following the collapse for example).
Andrew Lavery asked
Personally, I want to know who regulates some of these cowboy money taking flight
Last edited by Reverserbucket; 22nd Jul 2020 at 23:16.
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Find out what the time period is in which you can sit all your ATPL exams, someone mentioned above it’s 24 months? Sit all your exams apart from the easiest one, withdraw from the school, you’ll get your money back minus £5k, which is the cost of groundschool anyway, then take a year out completely and reassess. Given 2008 took 2 years to empty the hold pools this will be almost certainly longer.
I’d advise your coursemates to do the same. This is your opportunity to get out reasonably unscathed. Use it wisely.
Good luck.
I’d advise your coursemates to do the same. This is your opportunity to get out reasonably unscathed. Use it wisely.
Good luck.
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: From UK
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have 18 months to complete the ATPL exams from the time you take the first one.
Then you have 36 months to get an IR and CPL issued after you have completed all 14 exams.
I think delaying is a pretty good strategy.
If you haven't taken any of the exams, delay for a few months.
If you've alreadytaken some, and if at all possible, it probably is a good idea to delay doing all the exams if you still have lots of the 18 months left. Even if it's just one exam like VFR Comms, it'll give the economy a longer time to recover. Don't leave anything until month 18 though as you need to give yourself a buffer in case you need to retake anything.
Then you have 36 months to get an IR and CPL issued after you have completed all 14 exams.
I think delaying is a pretty good strategy.
If you haven't taken any of the exams, delay for a few months.
If you've alreadytaken some, and if at all possible, it probably is a good idea to delay doing all the exams if you still have lots of the 18 months left. Even if it's just one exam like VFR Comms, it'll give the economy a longer time to recover. Don't leave anything until month 18 though as you need to give yourself a buffer in case you need to retake anything.
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you've already done some exams I would personally continue with them and only delay your last sitting. Leave 1-2 easy exams (comms I/V or m&b ) such that you can do learn and pass them on short notice.
Don't get into the situation where you don't have enough time to master+pass your last subjects because you've delayed doing sittings or studying them. Once the 18 months have passed all your previous results will be rendered invalid.
If you haven't sat any exams at all, something to consider is that ECQB7.0 is coming soon (deadline april 2021, I believe), which implements some major changes regarding learning objectives and subjects (comms will become 1 subject for instance).
Why do it before ECQB7.0? if you start now you will finish all your sittings under the old learning objectives and ECQB6.0, which will presumably no longer get updated and hence all questions will be available to study, via third party questionbanks such as aviationexam, bgs, atplquestions etc.
Once the new ECQB arrives the third party banks might require a while to get up-to date, as they rely on students' feedbacks... knowing EASA, you will still require questionbanks to pass your ATPLs in the future.
The use of questionbanks usually gets a load of **** from oldtimers, but with the way EASA has currently set up their exams they have become a neccesity to pass some of the subjects. I've literally encountered questions (on my actual exams) about one sentence in my 500 page book.
Don't get me wrong: you should study the subject, however some questions are simply ment for memorization from bank and will have no practical use for your career. e.g. min. regulatory distance between taxiway lights....
Don't get into the situation where you don't have enough time to master+pass your last subjects because you've delayed doing sittings or studying them. Once the 18 months have passed all your previous results will be rendered invalid.
If you haven't sat any exams at all, something to consider is that ECQB7.0 is coming soon (deadline april 2021, I believe), which implements some major changes regarding learning objectives and subjects (comms will become 1 subject for instance).
Why do it before ECQB7.0? if you start now you will finish all your sittings under the old learning objectives and ECQB6.0, which will presumably no longer get updated and hence all questions will be available to study, via third party questionbanks such as aviationexam, bgs, atplquestions etc.
Once the new ECQB arrives the third party banks might require a while to get up-to date, as they rely on students' feedbacks... knowing EASA, you will still require questionbanks to pass your ATPLs in the future.
The use of questionbanks usually gets a load of **** from oldtimers, but with the way EASA has currently set up their exams they have become a neccesity to pass some of the subjects. I've literally encountered questions (on my actual exams) about one sentence in my 500 page book.
Don't get me wrong: you should study the subject, however some questions are simply ment for memorization from bank and will have no practical use for your career. e.g. min. regulatory distance between taxiway lights....
Last edited by African_TrouserSnake; 30th Jul 2020 at 00:33.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: France
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First of all, it seems obvious that an MPL is too restricting.
You could very well find an instructing job, or a private jet company, but only with a normal license.
Then, two things to consider :
How much would it cost to finish training, from where you're at ? Forget about what is paid and non refundable, if it's lost it's lost. But if the school does not want to refund you a large sum, but would accept converting it to another form of training, the frozen atpl could be cheaper than polish modular.
Some years from now, when things will pick up (I sure hope they eventually will), will easyjet hire you if you went modular and did not train at the expected place ?
These are the two most important things to consider, amont what I see.
You could very well find an instructing job, or a private jet company, but only with a normal license.
Then, two things to consider :
How much would it cost to finish training, from where you're at ? Forget about what is paid and non refundable, if it's lost it's lost. But if the school does not want to refund you a large sum, but would accept converting it to another form of training, the frozen atpl could be cheaper than polish modular.
Some years from now, when things will pick up (I sure hope they eventually will), will easyjet hire you if you went modular and did not train at the expected place ?
These are the two most important things to consider, amont what I see.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Down South now...
Age: 43
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
Yes. EZY have dropped all their cadets in training, nothing else they could do really. Same for BA with their low hours guys, even worse though at BA as they don't have the bond repayment clause so only a year of bond repayment given as a gesture of goodwill. Tough times.
