Becoming a pilot After COVID-19
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: UK North
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like lambs to the slaughter. It is very irresponsible of them to give you false hope just because you want to be a Pilot. They simply want your money.
Consider the worldwide economic downturn - will people have spare money to go on holiday? There is possibly a major financial depression about to happen.
Consider public confidence in the travel industry - look at the way current customers are not being refunded for cancelled trips. Most will become reluctant to commit large sums of money for what could be a non-event.
Consider a suitable public immunisation programme - a vaccine hasn't even been developed yet. There will have to be a universal agreement on health requirements at point of entry and departure otherwise 2 weeks holiday PLUS 2 weeks quarantine will be unrealistic for most travellers.
There was a major shortage of Flying Instructors at most schools so will there be enough staff for them to carry out these courses?
Consider all those experienced unemployed Pilots chasing after too few jobs
Two years is too soon. Try 5, go Modular and save a fortune.........
Last edited by Bridgestone17; 10th May 2020 at 16:18.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of all examples of trolling I've seen on that forum that was well and by far the finest. Great irony - but, sadly, that's what any overexcited and underinformed candidate will hear if they ask the marketing department of any FTO that has one... As long as they have done their job, yours becomes entirely your own problem.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 35
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They would say that wouldn't they!
Like lambs to the slaughter. It is very irresponsible of them to give you false hope just because you want to be a Pilot. They simply want your money.
Consider the worldwide economic downturn - will people have spare money to go on holiday? There is possibly a major financial depression about to happen.
Consider public confidence in the travel industry - look at the way current customers are not being refunded for cancelled trips. Most will become reluctant to commit large sums of money for what could be a non-event.
Consider a suitable public immunisation programme - a vaccine hasn't even been developed yet. There will have to be a universal agreement on health requirements at point of entry and departure otherwise 2 weeks holiday PLUS 2 weeks quarantine will be unrealistic for most travellers.
There was a major shortage of Flying Instructors at most schools so will there be enough staff for them to carry out these courses?
Consider all those experienced unemployed Pilots chasing after too few jobs
Two years is too soon. Try 5, go Modular and save a fortune.........
Like lambs to the slaughter. It is very irresponsible of them to give you false hope just because you want to be a Pilot. They simply want your money.
Consider the worldwide economic downturn - will people have spare money to go on holiday? There is possibly a major financial depression about to happen.
Consider public confidence in the travel industry - look at the way current customers are not being refunded for cancelled trips. Most will become reluctant to commit large sums of money for what could be a non-event.
Consider a suitable public immunisation programme - a vaccine hasn't even been developed yet. There will have to be a universal agreement on health requirements at point of entry and departure otherwise 2 weeks holiday PLUS 2 weeks quarantine will be unrealistic for most travellers.
There was a major shortage of Flying Instructors at most schools so will there be enough staff for them to carry out these courses?
Consider all those experienced unemployed Pilots chasing after too few jobs
Two years is too soon. Try 5, go Modular and save a fortune.........
Any upfront costs into aviation training for the next several years is going to be very risky. If you have hundreds of thousands to potentially waste then yeah you go for it. Having just the right amount of money for an integrated course then I’d suggest save it for when the industry begins to recover because if you loose it now you’ll probably never get the chance again.
It’s not rocket science this, it’s all over the main stream media so there is very little digging to actually do. IAG, Ryanair, BALPA all saying its going to take several years to get back to the pre-covid19 demand. So why a school offering a massively expensive course would know any better. Beyond me.
de minimus non curat lex
The posting has all the hallmarks of being a ‘wind up’ to get a reaction from those he likes to antagonise. Quite a few of them given the reaction.
Demonstrating a lack of maturity, as he likes to have a laugh at others misfortune. I believe the Germans have a word for those who like to see others suffer. SCHADENFREUDE
Probably best to give this individual a wide berth in future and disregard any future idiotic postings.
Last edited by parkfell; 11th May 2020 at 08:51. Reason: Cross reference to Interview thread
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 35
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this person is a local Prestwick spotter of a certain vintage, who might have done his PPL in the USA a number of years ago. Search function will reveal postings in the Ryanair recruitment / simulator thread warning against training just now. See the Interview section. I have replied on that thread and captured his posting as a quote.
The posting has all the hallmarks of being a ‘wind up’ to get a reaction from those he likes to antagonise. Quite a few of them given the reaction.
Demonstrating a lack of maturity, as he likes to have a laugh at others misfortune. I believe the Germans have a word for those who like to see others suffer. SCHADENFREUDE
Probably best to give this individual a wide berth in future and disregard any future idiotic postings.
The posting has all the hallmarks of being a ‘wind up’ to get a reaction from those he likes to antagonise. Quite a few of them given the reaction.
Demonstrating a lack of maturity, as he likes to have a laugh at others misfortune. I believe the Germans have a word for those who like to see others suffer. SCHADENFREUDE
Probably best to give this individual a wide berth in future and disregard any future idiotic postings.
Not just the FTOs though was it?
Every six months or so somebody would be on here breathlessly linking to an article claiming the world would be short of 100,000, 500,000 or 1,000,000 pilots within the next...and it wasn't just those who were actively looking at sitting in the seat that got carried away - there's no doubt some parents saw funding their nearest and dearest as a financial investment and were looking for a return, rather than a way of facilitating their offspring get into a personally rewarding career.
Every six months or so somebody would be on here breathlessly linking to an article claiming the world would be short of 100,000, 500,000 or 1,000,000 pilots within the next...and it wasn't just those who were actively looking at sitting in the seat that got carried away - there's no doubt some parents saw funding their nearest and dearest as a financial investment and were looking for a return, rather than a way of facilitating their offspring get into a personally rewarding career.
I do have great sympathy for those at the end of their MPL training to find that their jobs are no longer there, or their mentored airline is no longer in existence! It can’t be denied that even the more ‘realistic’ members on this forum had been advocates of only training if tagged by an airline.
Hopefully in a couple of years things won’t be looking so bleak, where some airlines may struggle there may be new opportunities once confidence returns. I find it hard to believe that it won’t eventually improve.
Last edited by pug; 11th May 2020 at 10:41.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst COVID has given our government a chance to meet its co2 emissions targets I fear we will be back to messing up the planet before we know it.
Inevitably that will mean more cars, more planes and more pilots sooner than you think.
Inevitably that will mean more cars, more planes and more pilots sooner than you think.
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Germany
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of all examples of trolling I've seen on that forum that was well and by far the finest. Great irony - but, sadly, that's what any overexcited and underinformed candidate will hear if they ask the marketing department of any FTO that has one... As long as they have done their job, yours becomes entirely your own problem.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A point of view
Not sure who is more naive student falling for a glossy brochure or people calling FTOs out for making them. It would be rather poor marketing if instead of a glossy brochure they were sending out matte flyers informing their potential clients that flight training is an incredibly risky investment and there is no guarantee of a job. If I go to a realtor I don't expect them to advise against buying a house because it's better to rent. It's indeed a business and they are marketing their business most efficient way possible. By no means is it FTOs job to act as a career & financial adviser to ensure their potential client doesn't make a bad investment by buying their service.
When advertising services they must ensure that the information published is factual and can be checked and does not exploit their vulnerability or lack of aviation knowledge.
They must ensure that any document is not false or misleading.
They must not deliberately leave out relevant information.
A honest business will always get customers as ‘word of mouth’ is the best form of advertising possible, as this website often demonstrates.
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Germany
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is there any public demonstration of any ATO doing dishonest marketing? I checked the mentioned FTEjerez I could see them doing nothing wrong on their website. I don't think anyone is claiming to offer a guaranteed job. Saying "now it's a good time to start training" or "airliners will start hiring again" isn't more dishonest than saying the opposite.
de minimus non curat lex
You must take the whole post as best practice, as it is, in essence, an indivisible framework to adopt.
It is true that “airliners(sic) will start hiring again”. The question is when. Given the number of known ‘unknowns’ that generates a wide range of starting dates.
What would be a honest answer to give a potential customer? Honesty is what you sincerely believe to be true.
I would suggest the best anyone can do just now is an inspired guess, even with Ryanair announcing today that they intend to operate 1,000 flights by 1 July, subject to restrictions being lifted
[TIMES on line article today]
.......” a good time to start training”. I would opine that the answer may well be inextricable linked to the hiring question.
Whilst the Integrated training route is invariably the quickest way to qualify, the Modular route allows you to set you own pace as the present crisis unfolds.
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: From UK
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.......” a good time to start training”. I would opine that the answer may well be inextricable linked to the hiring question.
Whilst the Integrated training route is invariably the quickest way to qualify, the Modular route allows you to set you own pace as the present crisis unfolds.
Whilst the Integrated training route is invariably the quickest way to qualify, the Modular route allows you to set you own pace as the present crisis unfolds.
Nobody knows when things will 'pick up' again in terms of hiring. We all hope it will be as soon as possible, but we all need to be realistic. It is unlikely to be anytime soon and 2022 seems the soonest it could feasibly be and we could very well be looking closer to the middle of the decade.
Remember: Never lend money that you couldn't afford to pay back without a flying job. Always have a back-up plan if things don't work out as you expect them. Don't expect to walk into a shiny jet cockpit when finishing your training. Always give yourself as much flexibility as possible.
Flexibility means going modular and it has many advantages. You can take a break when training. Perhaps do the PPL and ATPL exams and take a break to see how the market is developing - You have 36 months to do the CPL and IR after finishing them. It is overall much cheaper to go modular as well.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: GREECE
Age: 46
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Timing is king and you need to be realistic about it. Right now, I can't see any significant opportunities for 200-hour beginners until mid-to-late 2022 at the very earliest. I'm actually tempted to say 2023, to err on the safe side. That's all based on interpolation from the numerous forecasts I studied in the past weeks.
How does this translate to you? If you intend on starting tomorrow full-time and finishing it all in 18 months, you will graduate in November 2021. Factor in at least 6 months for job hunting (that's often the case even in good times) - and you will still fall short of the window when significant improvement of the market is likely to happen. If, however, you start in a year from today with the same time to completion - you will likely find yourself in a far better position when you graduate. Or, alternatively, you can start now but space it out some more, aiming to finish by about Christmas 2022 for example.
The question of whether to start anything right now and follow a more spaced-out timeframe or start in a year and do everything in a more condensed manner depends entirely on your personal circumstances. Money? Job? Location? Situation at intended FTO - i.e. can they be trusted with any amount of money upfront or do they look even remotely likely to go under with it? If you start anything anytime soon, will you be able to travel to the training location? Will they have adequate resources to train you in a timely and efficient manner since there's likely to be a backlog on courses which were cut short by the lockdown? Research those questions, and research them very thoroughly. You can only make the right decisions with the right information in hand.
How does this translate to you? If you intend on starting tomorrow full-time and finishing it all in 18 months, you will graduate in November 2021. Factor in at least 6 months for job hunting (that's often the case even in good times) - and you will still fall short of the window when significant improvement of the market is likely to happen. If, however, you start in a year from today with the same time to completion - you will likely find yourself in a far better position when you graduate. Or, alternatively, you can start now but space it out some more, aiming to finish by about Christmas 2022 for example.
The question of whether to start anything right now and follow a more spaced-out timeframe or start in a year and do everything in a more condensed manner depends entirely on your personal circumstances. Money? Job? Location? Situation at intended FTO - i.e. can they be trusted with any amount of money upfront or do they look even remotely likely to go under with it? If you start anything anytime soon, will you be able to travel to the training location? Will they have adequate resources to train you in a timely and efficient manner since there's likely to be a backlog on courses which were cut short by the lockdown? Research those questions, and research them very thoroughly. You can only make the right decisions with the right information in hand.
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would big ATO’s not strike a deal with Airlines like EasyJet to prioritise their future fresh graduates first?
Its beneficial to both the ATO’s and the airline.
The ATO’s can keep selling the £120k dream and the airlines have a steady stream of fresh graduates they can pay less.
Obviously the airlines could just pay the future experienced pilots they hire less, but by taking on fresh meat they could strike a deal for cheaper ongoing access to sim time etc with the ATO’s. Then just bridge any gap in experience with a few direct entry FO’s
Everybody wins... except experienced FO’s
Its beneficial to both the ATO’s and the airline.
The ATO’s can keep selling the £120k dream and the airlines have a steady stream of fresh graduates they can pay less.
Obviously the airlines could just pay the future experienced pilots they hire less, but by taking on fresh meat they could strike a deal for cheaper ongoing access to sim time etc with the ATO’s. Then just bridge any gap in experience with a few direct entry FO’s
Everybody wins... except experienced FO’s
de minimus non curat lex
Would big ATO’s not strike a deal with Airlines like EasyJet to prioritise their future fresh graduates first?
Its beneficial to both the ATO’s and the airline.
The ATO’s can keep selling the £120k dream and the airlines have a steady stream of fresh graduates they can pay less.
Obviously the airlines could just pay the future experienced pilots they hire less, but by taking on fresh meat they could strike ,a deal for cheaper ongoing access to sim time etc with the ATO’s. Then just bridge any gap in experience with a few direct entry FO’s
Everybody wins... except experienced FO’s
Its beneficial to both the ATO’s and the airline.
The ATO’s can keep selling the £120k dream and the airlines have a steady stream of fresh graduates they can pay less.
Obviously the airlines could just pay the future experienced pilots they hire less, but by taking on fresh meat they could strike ,a deal for cheaper ongoing access to sim time etc with the ATO’s. Then just bridge any gap in experience with a few direct entry FO’s
Everybody wins... except experienced FO’s
Those competent juniors even ‘in store’ for say 3 months had past their ‘sell by date’ in the eyes of EZY on that occasion.
Now, that was then, and just what they say in future is a matter for conjecture.
Being in the right place at the right time will as ever play a crucial part in getting that all important first job.
Timing will be of the essence.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
Age: 65
Posts: 1,802
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Would big ATO’s not strike a deal with Airlines like EasyJet to prioritise their future fresh graduates first?"
But what on earth could the ATOs offer to the airlines to make that deal stick? Ryanair have shown that you can get good pilots from both integrated and modular, there is NO difference.
But what on earth could the ATOs offer to the airlines to make that deal stick? Ryanair have shown that you can get good pilots from both integrated and modular, there is NO difference.
