L3 Harris Delays
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Is there any news when L3 will resume training?
https://ionline.sapo.pt/artigo/70060...iVTp65HisKolVw
"British Pilot Academy leaves Ponte de Sor students without money or solution"
Last edited by janrein; 4th Jul 2020 at 18:42.
Join Date: Aug 2016
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With travel restrictions to both New Zealand and the USA in place for an indefinite period, FTE Jerez indeed looks like the safest bet out there. I'm not getting into the modular VS integrated VS a different career debate, just considering the facts regarding the availability of the different facilities for the foreseeable future.
Looks like that's not gonna happen anymore (for the portuguese base) according to recent news article:
https://ionline.sapo.pt/artigo/70060...iVTp65HisKolVw
"British Pilot Academy leaves Ponte de Sor students without money or solution"
https://ionline.sapo.pt/artigo/70060...iVTp65HisKolVw
"British Pilot Academy leaves Ponte de Sor students without money or solution"
“An aviation school in Ponte de Sor terminated contracts with 120 cadets, who now cannot find a place to continue the course. Company L3 justifies a pandemic decision.
The Aviation School Aerocondor L3 European Airline Academy - located at the Ponte de Sor aerodrome, in Alentejo - decided to terminate the contracts of 120 students who attended the course that would allow them to obtain the commercial aircraft pilot license (ATPL) .
The notice arrived by email and was justified by covid-19. In practice, the 120 students were left without the money for the part of the training already completed (around 20 thousand euros) and without alternatives to continue and complete the course. The problem, in this case, is that this pilot training must be carried out, from beginning to end, obligatorily within 36 months, according to the international rules defined by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) ). Now, with no places available at other schools - due to the high number of people currently attending ATPL courses in Portugal - the 120 students risk losing everything: money and training”
Doesn't surprise me for even a second. They never cared about their students in the past. They don’t care about them now. They won’t care in the future. WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP GIVING THEM THEIR MONEY??
Join Date: Oct 2019
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The airlines are getting murdered by this. The same applies to any training provider.
Anyone who parts with a penny up front needs their heads examining. There will be casualties and you will lose your money. If you are extremely lucky, you might complete the course. But there won’t be a job at the end of it. Not a chance.
Anyone who parts with a penny up front needs their heads examining. There will be casualties and you will lose your money. If you are extremely lucky, you might complete the course. But there won’t be a job at the end of it. Not a chance.
de minimus non curat lex
The tipping point
Whilst the Right Honourable Gentleman has expressed his point of view, and although it is not essentially without merit, there are certain aspects to consider.
Payment by credit card will give some protection. Other means may well have little or no protection.
Insurance against default might be an option; take financial advice from a professional authorised to provide it.
Those who have just started might well decide to throw in the towel, cut their losses and perhaps wait for better times and eventually go down the modular route.
Alternatively the ATO might agree to you pausing training for say a year, perhaps longer, until the prospects of employment becomes less opaque.
I assume the ATO is still trading.
Those deep into the flying having spent 75%+ might well decide to keep on going. What has been spent is a ‘sunk cost’ and with nothing to show for it apart from a PPL at best. So for that extra 25% you are issued with a licence, and await in a state of hibernation.
Renewals, keeping reasonably current, needs careful planning and something the ATO might be flexible with special deals going for previous customers.
Another option would be to delay the MCC element so that you have the course later downstream when the “green shoots” aka interviews start to appear. Hit the ground running.
As for those not at the start, or near the end, at least complete the EASA exams successfully, before making a final decision.
Unfortunately, not all ATOs will survive the tsunami. Spent your money carefully, as up front payments are always at potential risk.
Above all, above smooooth talking snake oil salesmen.
Payment by credit card will give some protection. Other means may well have little or no protection.
Insurance against default might be an option; take financial advice from a professional authorised to provide it.
Those who have just started might well decide to throw in the towel, cut their losses and perhaps wait for better times and eventually go down the modular route.
Alternatively the ATO might agree to you pausing training for say a year, perhaps longer, until the prospects of employment becomes less opaque.
I assume the ATO is still trading.
Those deep into the flying having spent 75%+ might well decide to keep on going. What has been spent is a ‘sunk cost’ and with nothing to show for it apart from a PPL at best. So for that extra 25% you are issued with a licence, and await in a state of hibernation.
Renewals, keeping reasonably current, needs careful planning and something the ATO might be flexible with special deals going for previous customers.
Another option would be to delay the MCC element so that you have the course later downstream when the “green shoots” aka interviews start to appear. Hit the ground running.
As for those not at the start, or near the end, at least complete the EASA exams successfully, before making a final decision.
Unfortunately, not all ATOs will survive the tsunami. Spent your money carefully, as up front payments are always at potential risk.
Above all, above smooooth talking snake oil salesmen.
Last edited by parkfell; 7th Jul 2020 at 11:23.
de minimus non curat lex
For those unfortunate junior birdmen who have left L3 Portugal, in common with advice given to those selecting any ATO for the very first time, you must visit the establishment speak to the staff and more importantly the customers.
Usual advice in all circumstances: CAVEAT EMPTOR & due diligence.
They have had a rough time, and to a certain extent ‘shell shocked‘, and will be susceptible to smooooth talking snake oil salesmen.
Usual advice in all circumstances: CAVEAT EMPTOR & due diligence.
They have had a rough time, and to a certain extent ‘shell shocked‘, and will be susceptible to smooooth talking snake oil salesmen.
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Lots of people are suddenly about to find out they aren't the invincibles they once thought they were nor are they in any way 'special' for having had the 'unique' opportunity to throw 100k down the drain for a chance to study at these so called academies
I hope this is the end of the L3/CAE/FTE cartel that has dominated European aviation for the last while. Major change was needed and this may be one of the few good things to come from this crisis.
I hope this is the end of the L3/CAE/FTE cartel that has dominated European aviation for the last while. Major change was needed and this may be one of the few good things to come from this crisis.
de minimus non curat lex
L3 offering Modular training in Portugal
L3 Twitter feed offering the modular route starting January 2021.
“zero to hero” style available
You do wonder given the treatment of customers this year, how many courageous customers they are likely to attract.
“zero to hero” style available
You do wonder given the treatment of customers this year, how many courageous customers they are likely to attract.
Last edited by parkfell; 10th Jul 2020 at 07:46.
Join Date: May 1999
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Wildly expensive, though, they will never get their cost base down to compare with real modular prices. And we know what happens when the market starts to pick up, you will be dumped just like the Portugese students.
A most unfortunate situation for the clients/students of this ATO. How does the L3 organization expect to be taken serious in the future? This type of business decision, involving the termination of a 120 hopeful young people, in such a fashion is far from admirable. I wish the best for the students and hope they will find a way forward.
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From the outside, L3 is very shiny and impressive. A bit like the image VS used to have. If that floats your boat, you are hooked.
Bit like getting your car serviced at the Mercedes main agent. All image. Free coffee and biscuits. Sky TV, comfy sofas. Then they charge you £150 + VAT for 5 litres of oil. Plus labour.
Same job can be done for a lot less elsewhere. Depends on how much image matters to you.
Bit like getting your car serviced at the Mercedes main agent. All image. Free coffee and biscuits. Sky TV, comfy sofas. Then they charge you £150 + VAT for 5 litres of oil. Plus labour.
Same job can be done for a lot less elsewhere. Depends on how much image matters to you.
Join Date: Feb 2023
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Based on my own experiences, I would strongly advise speaking directly to a large number of students in various phases of training, if you can find a way to do it. Look for student lounges, or even ask for some contacts from whoever interviewed you. Beware that they will likely share only contacts with positive feedback, but you can potentially use such contacts to reach others in turn who may have a different perspective.
Unfortunately, there is also the possibility that a previously good organization will turn bad. There is also the possibility that a dysfunctional org will get its act together and improve.
I think it’s a great idea on OP’s part to ask here as well. If you can’t find students to ask directly, post online and maybe the right people will see it
