Licensing: can you have your cake and eat it? FAA/EASA
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Licensing: can you have your cake and eat it? FAA/EASA
Good afternoon all,
I am currently in flight training in the USA and have been so for around 6 months now. I am a British national, working towards an EASA airline transport pilots licence on an integrated course and have around 6 months to go now till completion. I have absolutely fallen in love with the USA though and I'm thinking I'd like to live out here permanently but I don't want to lose my EASA licence as I believe its a licence that will open many many doors whereas the FAA licence seems a little sequestered. So:
Is it possible to hold both ATPL licences simultaneously?
What does the conversion process look like?
I completed the 750hrs classroom time or whatever it was in 7 months and attained all 14 groundschool exams, so I believe that there would be a requirement to sit the FAA exams which I believe are nowhere near as in depth? would it be possible to come and just sit the exams as a distance learner? after that do you need to do FAA flight training or could I just come and sit the check rides for the ME IR?
Im aware you need 1500hrs to get taken on by the airlines over here in the states but I can get 1500hrs turbine time back in Europe.
Thanks to anyone who's taken the time to read and respond to this.
I am currently in flight training in the USA and have been so for around 6 months now. I am a British national, working towards an EASA airline transport pilots licence on an integrated course and have around 6 months to go now till completion. I have absolutely fallen in love with the USA though and I'm thinking I'd like to live out here permanently but I don't want to lose my EASA licence as I believe its a licence that will open many many doors whereas the FAA licence seems a little sequestered. So:
Is it possible to hold both ATPL licences simultaneously?
What does the conversion process look like?
I completed the 750hrs classroom time or whatever it was in 7 months and attained all 14 groundschool exams, so I believe that there would be a requirement to sit the FAA exams which I believe are nowhere near as in depth? would it be possible to come and just sit the exams as a distance learner? after that do you need to do FAA flight training or could I just come and sit the check rides for the ME IR?
Im aware you need 1500hrs to get taken on by the airlines over here in the states but I can get 1500hrs turbine time back in Europe.
Thanks to anyone who's taken the time to read and respond to this.
Yes, it is possible to hold both an EASA license and a FAA certificate. There’s only one written test for the FAA ATP and most folks just do a few weeks of online studying and pass the test. There is no requirement for flight training for the ATP checkride unless it is also a type rating ride. Then o would have to complete a flight training course. There is also a requirement to complete an ATP Certificate Training Program before you take the ATP written exam. It’s a 40 hour class that includes 10 hours of simulator time. It’s designed to fill in the knowledge gap between a 1470 hr CFI and a 1550 hour regional jet co-pilot. It’s really redundant (to be polite) for someone who has flown in jets but that’s the requirement.
Yes, didn’t think where it’s posted.
Yes, didn’t think where it’s posted.
Have you got a green card? You can't just go to the States and get a job... That said, at the moment someone with the right to live and work coming with a foreign licence and 1500tt would have their FAA conversion paid for in full by a regional airline.
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MarkerInbound thanks ever so much for taking the time to respond to this!!! any idea on schools which can handle this kind of request? and any idea how much it will cost? sounds like you could all in all probably complete the entire process of training within a couple of weeks or something and then it'll be just a matter of waiting around for the licence ...
As it stands I have no right to live and work here but Im pretty optimistic if I could persuade an airline to take me on I could be granted a green card, and whatsmore as Im fulfilling a student visa right now it would probably put me in good stead for getting a green card
As it stands I have no right to live and work here but Im pretty optimistic if I could persuade an airline to take me on I could be granted a green card, and whatsmore as Im fulfilling a student visa right now it would probably put me in good stead for getting a green card
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rude stuff - gees really?! I know I can't come across and just do that but in my school there are a lot of european CFI's and they got taken on here on the EASA training programme so I shouldn't think its so difficult provided you have a job to go to? my intention would be to come across with 1500tt in around 2 - 2.5 years time
I should think the FAA will admire an EASA licence as our standards are also v high - different philosophy with regards to training as we do much more theoretical training whereas you do more practical training but I get the impression that once you've got your 1500hrs, they don't really care about your training anymore
I should think the FAA will admire an EASA licence as our standards are also v high - different philosophy with regards to training as we do much more theoretical training whereas you do more practical training but I get the impression that once you've got your 1500hrs, they don't really care about your training anymore
It's relatively easy to get an instructor job if you've got a J1 or whatever visa they use nowadays, as it generally counts as an internship. You could also get a visa to be an EASA flight instructor at an EASA school. It's very different to getting an airline job. At the moment only Australians can get a work visa for pilot jobs. As for FAA admiring EASA...
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"I should think the FAA will admire an EASA licence as our standards are also v high"
Actually, the FAA (and Canadian) systems are superior. It amazes me how the Europeans look down on them.
Actually, the FAA (and Canadian) systems are superior. It amazes me how the Europeans look down on them.
MarkerInbound thanks ever so much for taking the time to respond to this!!! any idea on schools which can handle this kind of request? and any idea how much it will cost? sounds like you could all in all probably complete the entire process of training within a couple of weeks or something and then it'll be just a matter of waiting around for the licence ...
As it stands I have no right to live and work here but Im pretty optimistic if I could persuade an airline to take me on I could be granted a green card, and whatsmore as Im fulfilling a student visa right now it would probably put me in good stead for getting a green card
As it stands I have no right to live and work here but Im pretty optimistic if I could persuade an airline to take me on I could be granted a green card, and whatsmore as Im fulfilling a student visa right now it would probably put me in good stead for getting a green card
Thats simply not the way it works, you have to be preferably a US Citizen or at a minimum a green card holder to be hired by any US based airline, they’re not going to assist you in that regard. Plenty of ‘home grown’ applicants still
Not sure why you think having held a student visa gives you an advantage in attaining a green card either, one has nothing to do with the other
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You can get the training a lot easier than you could get the right to work in the usa. You can sit the FAA writtens in a few days. The path to an FAA ATPL starts with either a private certificate or a 61.75 private certificate if you already have an easa ppl. You will need additional specific training requirements. But it's very do-able. Right now the big advantage is that you have a visa so you aren't forced to use a school that will issue a visa, which opens your options up a lot. Find a local FAA instructor and fly with them, plus study the 14CFR part 61 requirements for pilot certification which will tell you in detail what you will have to do to get a CPL and IR done. Then hour build for atpl. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-61
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The data does not back up the idea that the EASA system is superior either, as the FAA airlines do have a better safety rate than their European counterparts. FAA airlines have an 11 year (2008 - 2018) average accident rate of 2.579 per million departures, whereas EASA airlines are showing a 3.039 rate over the same time frame (source - ICAO accident statistics: commercial operations, aircraft weight greater than 5.7 tons). EASA beat the FAA only in the year 2017 over the 11 year time frame.
I like many aspects of the EASA system, but I do think many EASA pilots get bogged down in the minute details instead of focusing on the big picture first, and I think that is caused by the foundations laid during the training.
Last edited by NEDude; 27th Oct 2019 at 13:32.
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correct but I know from previous experience with a different visa authority, if you have successfully fulfilled the obligations of a visa before and didn't bifurcate from them, then it builds a reputation for yourself that the authorities look more favourably upon.
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never once did I ever insinuate that i look down upon FAA licences - I merely said that our standards very high which they are ... doesn't mean to say FAA standards are any less its just a different philosophy regarding the training
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NEDude - just to re-iterate, I never once said that I thought the EASA licence was superior but looking at the theoretical knowledge requirements, they're a million miles apart whereas the FAA licence is more practically based. Its interesting you noted that you think this is the cause of the statistics but what are the statistics based on? is it actually EASA airlines or on European airports? I should suspect due to our geographic location, if its based on airport incidents then it could be influenced by different airlines from afar flying in!
So how come youve ended up with all three licences? is there any restriction for holding multiple licences?
So how come youve ended up with all three licences? is there any restriction for holding multiple licences?
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"never once did I ever insinuate that i look down upon FAA licences - I merely said that our standards very high which they are ... doesn't mean to say FAA standards are any less its just a different philosophy regarding the training"
I said Europeans. And the European standards are not high. Transport Canada's standardisation is light years ahead.
I said Europeans. And the European standards are not high. Transport Canada's standardisation is light years ahead.
Funny how a thread involving the different aviation authorities always seems to end up in people arguing about which is best.
As for the green card issue, here’s a fun/interesting take on how complicated, weird and sometimes broken the US system for assigning those cards can be:
As for the green card issue, here’s a fun/interesting take on how complicated, weird and sometimes broken the US system for assigning those cards can be:
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NEDude - just to re-iterate, I never once said that I thought the EASA licence was superior but looking at the theoretical knowledge requirements, they're a million miles apart whereas the FAA licence is more practically based. Its interesting you noted that you think this is the cause of the statistics but what are the statistics based on? is it actually EASA airlines or on European airports? I should suspect due to our geographic location, if its based on airport incidents then it could be influenced by different airlines from afar flying in!
So how come youve ended up with all three licences? is there any restriction for holding multiple licences?
So how come youve ended up with all three licences? is there any restriction for holding multiple licences?
Regarding the restrictions, the only restriction is that within EASA, you are only permitted to have one EASA license. You cannot hold an EASA license from Ireland and one from Sweden, only one at a time. But as far as different regulatory authorities, there are no restrictions. I actually have a Chinese ATPL as well, so I actually have four different licenses in total. But none of them come from overlapping jurisdictions or regulatory authorities so there are no restrictions.
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Funny how a thread involving the different aviation authorities always seems to end up in people arguing about which is best.
As for the green card issue, here’s a fun/interesting take on how complicated, weird and sometimes broken the US system for assigning those cards can be:
https://youtu.be/tXqnRMU1fTs
As for the green card issue, here’s a fun/interesting take on how complicated, weird and sometimes broken the US system for assigning those cards can be:
https://youtu.be/tXqnRMU1fTs
But thanks for that video ... just goes to show how brutal of a journey its gonna be :-( anyway ... anything is possible if you put your mind to it!