Flight training funding
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flight training funding
So next year I’m starting my fast track training with Aeros. I’m wondering what’s the best way to fund the training is? I’m working a job but wondering if there’s any good ways to pay for it preferably getting the 64k paid off ASAP so I can just book in everything and not worry about money. (Even though at my current job getting 64k to pay up front is impossible 😂
so wondering if any of you have any good ways to pay for it without massive gaps between?
so wondering if any of you have any good ways to pay for it without massive gaps between?
de minimus non curat lex
There are no magic answers; a few suggestions though:
1. Confirm you have been issued with a Class One medical.
2. All 14 EASA exam successfully completed?
3. Hour building phase completed with appropriate number of hours to start the final push.
4. Have not less than 110% of CPL/IR course cost + fees. ( unless you regard yourself as an “ace of the base” as retakes can occur)
5. Pay the minimum amount UP FRONT. You will probably have to remain in credit. Pay as you go if possible, despite tempting offers of discounts. The larger the discount the more financially vulnerable the supplier. That applies to any business. Google the company’s name and check with Companies House as to the soundness of the organisation.
6.Visit more than one ATO. Speak with the staff and most importantly the trainees (customers)
7. Read any contract very carefully. Carry out DUE DILIGENCE ~ CAVEAT EMPTOR.
8.The recent airline collapses both in the UK & EU might indicate that things a plenty will not last for ever.
9. MCC/JOC or APS. Shop around.
10. If an offer is too good to be true, then it probably is. Do not gullible. Lots of very smooooth talking charlatans in aviation saying just what you want to hear, preying on the desperate and vulnerable.
Personnal recommendations from trusted friends is often a good source of advice.
1. Confirm you have been issued with a Class One medical.
2. All 14 EASA exam successfully completed?
3. Hour building phase completed with appropriate number of hours to start the final push.
4. Have not less than 110% of CPL/IR course cost + fees. ( unless you regard yourself as an “ace of the base” as retakes can occur)
5. Pay the minimum amount UP FRONT. You will probably have to remain in credit. Pay as you go if possible, despite tempting offers of discounts. The larger the discount the more financially vulnerable the supplier. That applies to any business. Google the company’s name and check with Companies House as to the soundness of the organisation.
6.Visit more than one ATO. Speak with the staff and most importantly the trainees (customers)
7. Read any contract very carefully. Carry out DUE DILIGENCE ~ CAVEAT EMPTOR.
8.The recent airline collapses both in the UK & EU might indicate that things a plenty will not last for ever.
9. MCC/JOC or APS. Shop around.
10. If an offer is too good to be true, then it probably is. Do not gullible. Lots of very smooooth talking charlatans in aviation saying just what you want to hear, preying on the desperate and vulnerable.
Personnal recommendations from trusted friends is often a good source of advice.
Last edited by parkfell; 10th Oct 2019 at 08:57. Reason: Syntax
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I’ve done research. Aeros is UK leading flight school I believe, it’s fast track course has a high % pass rate and a few airlines (Flybe, Jet2 and Ryanair) take a lot of people from there. A lot of instructors are very experienced as well. I was just seeing if there was any good ways to fund it as I’d rather pay it all off so I can just book days and then not have to worry about cost or massive gaps between flights. Thankfully it is pay as you go and as I said it’s next to impossible for me to pay the £64,500 so pay as you go seems to be the way. Thanks I’ll definitely talk to a couple of my friends who are going through ATPLs or just completed them see what they think.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Stansted
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Might be slightly off topic but mate of mine who used to fly Gliders with me got all his hour building done via a Gliding Club flying the towplanes for a couple of summers. He reckons that alone saved him well north of £15,000 on his modular bill after going to Eastern Europe for the CPL MEIR and distance learning ATPL by the time he got a bonded TR and a job flying an airliner in late 2019. His total bill was around 40k all in.
Needless to say I'm following (if the Industry ever picks up!)
Needless to say I'm following (if the Industry ever picks up!)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 35
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Might be slightly off topic but mate of mine who used to fly Gliders with me got all his hour building done via a Gliding Club flying the towplanes for a couple of summers. He reckons that alone saved him well north of £15,000 on his modular bill after going to Eastern Europe for the CPL MEIR and distance learning ATPL by the time he got a bonded TR and a job flying an airliner in late 2019. His total bill was around 40k all in.
Needless to say I'm following (if the Industry ever picks up!)
Needless to say I'm following (if the Industry ever picks up!)
In the UK? Wherever you want it to be, within reason. Abroad, much less. It all boils down to understanding the modular system, which probably 80% don't.
When I started, I thought you had to get a PPL, night rating, hour build - then do a CPL and IR. A lot of people still believe that, and most flight schools perpetuate the myth because it makes then more money.
There are loads of different options, but if you want to stay in the UK then the optimum is:
PPL, NR, hours, IMC, hours, CBIR, CPL
The #1 cost saver is doing the IR before the CPL - because those hours count towards the CPL requirement of 200. It stands to reason that an IR AFTER the CPL will require a lot more hours in total. And you do not need to do the CPL in a multi..!
The #2 cost saver is avoiding expensive simulators. Simulators are a great tool for teaching - because you can stop, rewind, repeat. The problem is, they are rarely used as such. Most SIM sessions are done real time, to tick the box for getting the hours you need. No joke, after 5 hours in the SIM, my instructor said he'd taught me everything I needed - the next 25 would just be practicing. And most SIMS are (a) as expensive as a plane and (b) no better than a £1000 PC based home flight SIM. Basically, get as many hours in the plane as you can, because they also count towards your CPL. An IRR and CBIR done in a single engine plane will cost approximately £2000 - because you're already paying for that plane to hour build.
The #3 cost saver is back seating. Do this and #4 and you will pass every course in minimum times, crucial to saving money. Back seating is obvious: watch someone else pay to **** stuff up, and learn from their mistakes. When it's your turn you'll know what's expected of you. A decent school should allow this for IR training etc. When you come to take the test, you'll have experienced twice the hours and learned 3 times as much (with no pressure in the back seat your capacity to think is much greater)
The #4 cost saver is chair flying. Flying a plane is like learning your lines in a play. You have to practice over and over and over. You can do this in 2 ways: in an airplane at £200 per hour, or on a chair or empty SIM for free. It's your choice. You should aim to never learn anything in the air. It's just a motor skill. Learn it on the ground and practice it in the air. If you're forgetting your downwind checks, it's because you haven't rehearsed it in your mind enough - now it's cost you £50 to do it again. If you get in the cockpit and say "teach me" you're doing it wrong.
The #5 cost saver is the SEIR. If you get an MEIR, you need 15 hours multi on top of an MEP rating. That's roughly 25 hours MEP. If you get an SEIR, it's virtually free as part of your hour building, then after your MEP it's only a few hours to convert that SEIR to an MEIR. Yes, you have to take 2 tests, but guess what? You'll be taking a IR test every year. And it's a myth that they're hard.
So once you understand that the goal is to get 200 hours and 100 PIC, *with all boxes ticked along the way*, you'll realise it's not actually that expensive. If you assume £200 per hour for 200 hours, you'll get £40k. (Bearing in mind 100 are PIC, so you can shop around and pay £75-£100 for those, and the money saved will balance the MEP hours, exam fees and ATPLs)
And that's just the UK options, if you get an FAA PPL and multi IR you can convert via CBIR with zero required minimums and an EASA CPL will cost about £4k.
When I started, I thought you had to get a PPL, night rating, hour build - then do a CPL and IR. A lot of people still believe that, and most flight schools perpetuate the myth because it makes then more money.
There are loads of different options, but if you want to stay in the UK then the optimum is:
PPL, NR, hours, IMC, hours, CBIR, CPL
The #1 cost saver is doing the IR before the CPL - because those hours count towards the CPL requirement of 200. It stands to reason that an IR AFTER the CPL will require a lot more hours in total. And you do not need to do the CPL in a multi..!
The #2 cost saver is avoiding expensive simulators. Simulators are a great tool for teaching - because you can stop, rewind, repeat. The problem is, they are rarely used as such. Most SIM sessions are done real time, to tick the box for getting the hours you need. No joke, after 5 hours in the SIM, my instructor said he'd taught me everything I needed - the next 25 would just be practicing. And most SIMS are (a) as expensive as a plane and (b) no better than a £1000 PC based home flight SIM. Basically, get as many hours in the plane as you can, because they also count towards your CPL. An IRR and CBIR done in a single engine plane will cost approximately £2000 - because you're already paying for that plane to hour build.
The #3 cost saver is back seating. Do this and #4 and you will pass every course in minimum times, crucial to saving money. Back seating is obvious: watch someone else pay to **** stuff up, and learn from their mistakes. When it's your turn you'll know what's expected of you. A decent school should allow this for IR training etc. When you come to take the test, you'll have experienced twice the hours and learned 3 times as much (with no pressure in the back seat your capacity to think is much greater)
The #4 cost saver is chair flying. Flying a plane is like learning your lines in a play. You have to practice over and over and over. You can do this in 2 ways: in an airplane at £200 per hour, or on a chair or empty SIM for free. It's your choice. You should aim to never learn anything in the air. It's just a motor skill. Learn it on the ground and practice it in the air. If you're forgetting your downwind checks, it's because you haven't rehearsed it in your mind enough - now it's cost you £50 to do it again. If you get in the cockpit and say "teach me" you're doing it wrong.
The #5 cost saver is the SEIR. If you get an MEIR, you need 15 hours multi on top of an MEP rating. That's roughly 25 hours MEP. If you get an SEIR, it's virtually free as part of your hour building, then after your MEP it's only a few hours to convert that SEIR to an MEIR. Yes, you have to take 2 tests, but guess what? You'll be taking a IR test every year. And it's a myth that they're hard.
So once you understand that the goal is to get 200 hours and 100 PIC, *with all boxes ticked along the way*, you'll realise it's not actually that expensive. If you assume £200 per hour for 200 hours, you'll get £40k. (Bearing in mind 100 are PIC, so you can shop around and pay £75-£100 for those, and the money saved will balance the MEP hours, exam fees and ATPLs)
And that's just the UK options, if you get an FAA PPL and multi IR you can convert via CBIR with zero required minimums and an EASA CPL will cost about £4k.
Last edited by rudestuff; 15th May 2020 at 07:49.
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Palm Beach
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have, so far, resisted the temptation to join the hot and current thread about life after COVID, but I very much enjoyed reading the last posting by rudestuff, I wholeheartedly agree and it prompted me to join in.
Trying to avoid getting into the 'integrated vs "modular debate I would still at least hope by now, it is be clear to everyone who really has done their research, there is no difference, its simply about the quality of the training and the school's standards and moral compass.
I also admit, my crystal ball does NOT allow me to predict the future either, and despite many on here that think they are right (many gloomy and some optimistic), no one really knows, so in my opinion it boils down to money - spend as little as you can to follow your dream, but this would be my best advice even before the virus!!
There will be people that will strongly argue "you get what you pay for', perhaps an over generalization to justify the 100K plus price tag, but let the facts speak for themselves, Rudestuff is factually correct, I personally also know many great commercial pilots who paid an equivalent sum (different amounts depending which year they trained, of course), and today that is the right and sensible amount to spend if you want to start now.
I certainly do not subscribe to gloom and doom approach. Flying is fantastic, flying as a recreational pilot is incredible fun and rewarding, gaining a full commercial and looking for an airline job in the future is commendable and it still is for many, the greatest job on earth despite those that suggest otherwise, although maybe for them they hate it. So certainly do not stop the dream and give up, just take enjoyable affordable steps and be ready for the next hiring boom, whenever it might occur.
So to the pundits that predict Armageddon - they say flying is finished, no one will travel again. I cant say they are wrong, just as I cant say I am right, however, learning to fly and holding a PPL is fulfilling the dream of flying, you can do most things and go most places (especially with an IR), you can even share costs with friends, you just cant be paid or fly for an airline yet, but later, its an easy jump if by the time everything returns (if it does) to normal, you have a couple of hundred hours in your logbook and have enjoyed every minute of it.
SJ
Trying to avoid getting into the 'integrated vs "modular debate I would still at least hope by now, it is be clear to everyone who really has done their research, there is no difference, its simply about the quality of the training and the school's standards and moral compass.
I also admit, my crystal ball does NOT allow me to predict the future either, and despite many on here that think they are right (many gloomy and some optimistic), no one really knows, so in my opinion it boils down to money - spend as little as you can to follow your dream, but this would be my best advice even before the virus!!
There will be people that will strongly argue "you get what you pay for', perhaps an over generalization to justify the 100K plus price tag, but let the facts speak for themselves, Rudestuff is factually correct, I personally also know many great commercial pilots who paid an equivalent sum (different amounts depending which year they trained, of course), and today that is the right and sensible amount to spend if you want to start now.
I certainly do not subscribe to gloom and doom approach. Flying is fantastic, flying as a recreational pilot is incredible fun and rewarding, gaining a full commercial and looking for an airline job in the future is commendable and it still is for many, the greatest job on earth despite those that suggest otherwise, although maybe for them they hate it. So certainly do not stop the dream and give up, just take enjoyable affordable steps and be ready for the next hiring boom, whenever it might occur.
So to the pundits that predict Armageddon - they say flying is finished, no one will travel again. I cant say they are wrong, just as I cant say I am right, however, learning to fly and holding a PPL is fulfilling the dream of flying, you can do most things and go most places (especially with an IR), you can even share costs with friends, you just cant be paid or fly for an airline yet, but later, its an easy jump if by the time everything returns (if it does) to normal, you have a couple of hundred hours in your logbook and have enjoyed every minute of it.
SJ
