AFTA, Simtech, VA or any other school for APS MCC
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I will reveal your identity.
You are a training organisation which provides MCC training and you are trying to discredit APS MCC providers and the course itself as much as you can.
The above information you gave is totally untrue and unfounded.
Assessments stats are directly available on the RYR website.
Stop lying to people on this forum
You are a training organisation which provides MCC training and you are trying to discredit APS MCC providers and the course itself as much as you can.
The above information you gave is totally untrue and unfounded.
Assessments stats are directly available on the RYR website.
Stop lying to people on this forum
Don't be afraid. We're not talking about small sky. Only about the serious componies
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This war between you both is a little bit weird from outside...
I contacted C4U and S4U for the MCC, both were correct in the exchanges and even if the training is not the same (one is less expansive on FFS with summer discount but with less sim time, the other is few hundred euros more but with 10h sim more on fixed sim), I think they are both good, so I decided to go to the one which gave me the soonest date and which is S4U.
I'll go there in a few weeks so I'll give you a true feedback after...
For now they give me whole 737 CBT and asked me to learn at least 10 modules and if possible the whole course. The quality of the CBT is good, I cannot say something wrong against, some people criticize the APS... I asked for but I was not able to be in this program (maybe due to Ryr has closed hiring, stopping APS in the same time would be something logic), so I'm going for regular MCC/JOC... For 2700€ less and 30h in sim, it is just 10h less in the sim than the APS, so a good deal from my side!
If you both fighting are representatives from some schools, you should avoid to do that in a public forum... people are not stupid and can sense who is a user and who is from the marketing
I give you an objective feedback after the MCC, here I read somethings against this school, meanwhile some friends now in Airline recommended me to go there so a fresh feedback from someone neutral could be positive for everyone
I contacted C4U and S4U for the MCC, both were correct in the exchanges and even if the training is not the same (one is less expansive on FFS with summer discount but with less sim time, the other is few hundred euros more but with 10h sim more on fixed sim), I think they are both good, so I decided to go to the one which gave me the soonest date and which is S4U.
I'll go there in a few weeks so I'll give you a true feedback after...
For now they give me whole 737 CBT and asked me to learn at least 10 modules and if possible the whole course. The quality of the CBT is good, I cannot say something wrong against, some people criticize the APS... I asked for but I was not able to be in this program (maybe due to Ryr has closed hiring, stopping APS in the same time would be something logic), so I'm going for regular MCC/JOC... For 2700€ less and 30h in sim, it is just 10h less in the sim than the APS, so a good deal from my side!
If you both fighting are representatives from some schools, you should avoid to do that in a public forum... people are not stupid and can sense who is a user and who is from the marketing
I give you an objective feedback after the MCC, here I read somethings against this school, meanwhile some friends now in Airline recommended me to go there so a fresh feedback from someone neutral could be positive for everyone
Last edited by tevious; 27th Aug 2019 at 14:58.
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@tevious
Thank you for your detailed reply.
Please post your feedback in an other thread. This one is not for sky, but for AFTA, Simtech, VA, and so on
You will pretty well understand that there are many other open threads/forums for this particulare flight school. But I would like to collect information for the others.
Ciao
Please post your feedback in an other thread. This one is not for sky, but for AFTA, Simtech, VA, and so on
You will pretty well understand that there are many other open threads/forums for this particulare flight school. But I would like to collect information for the others.
Ciao
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APS overvalued
I don't see any extra value with the APS. Cadets are forced to do everything double and triple on own expenses. Where will this stop?
Airlines should better ask openly for donations, would be more honest.
Airlines should better ask openly for donations, would be more honest.
de minimus non curat lex
Shop around
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Debriefing Sky4U
Hi,
I just completed the MCC/JOC with Sky4U. I read, sorry to say it, but a lot of bull**** about the situation.
The situation is good inside and their partnerships with airlines run well, I saw 5 people doing the Easyjet NGC this evening after our last sim, I saw also at least 2 groups of APS from Ryanair, I don't know how many MCC were running the last 2 weeks but with the time of some of our sims I think they have a lot!
About the MCC/JOC itself, I'm completely satisfied, we got some old experienced guys, some younger passionate and all high qualified, all flying or having flown for airlines and cargo.
The sim itself is realistic and belongs to the company (it's inside LAT's center but they have their offices and space for sim there), the SOPs well done too, I just wished to get it before going to the MCC when I suscribed to have more time to learn it, but on site it was fine.
We got for the last 3 days the CFI as instructor. He's simply amazing, he pushed us a lot, at the beginning I was freaking out about him, but he thinks very quickly and he's the most efficient instructor I got from my first hour of PPL, truly. He easily finds what are you weaknesses and helps to be better. He asks a lot of people, but besides he's very fair and positive, and out of the training he's a very nice guy!
It was not comfortable and we were not here to play with the sim, but the learning curve was very steep, I made progress and learnt about myself like I've never thought before, and his method works very well!
One minus point was sometimes the hours of sim, 2 times a very early wake up, the roster was in parallel stable as announced before the training, we had few very early sims as I wrote, few very late and few during daylight, it was a little bit complicated for my biorythm... but hey, you want to be a pilot, that's your future anyway, good to know how can be the life with this job... a minus for a plus so!
Last point, MCC JOC is not APS, according to regulation you attend all the course, you get the certificate... but that's not what Sky4U does, they have their standards (and they have high standards, good when you understand that it's maybe the last time you touch a sim before an assessment if you don't follow a sim preparation...), they train you to meet it and only when you reach what they want you to reach they give you the MCC. If you don't reach or fail something, you can get extra session, I don't know how it works and who pays for that, according to what I hear, it occured only a couple of times... Basically, they ask you a lot, but they give you the material to be ready for the sim, and if you do you job and commit yourself with personnal homework and full concentration within sim time, it can only go well.
I can only recommend them, but as I just wrote, you're not going to play with a sim for 2 weeks of holidays, prepare you to work and to put your skills to a new level.
I'll probably go there again for sim preparation, but I first have to be invited by an airline for that.
I just completed the MCC/JOC with Sky4U. I read, sorry to say it, but a lot of bull**** about the situation.
The situation is good inside and their partnerships with airlines run well, I saw 5 people doing the Easyjet NGC this evening after our last sim, I saw also at least 2 groups of APS from Ryanair, I don't know how many MCC were running the last 2 weeks but with the time of some of our sims I think they have a lot!
About the MCC/JOC itself, I'm completely satisfied, we got some old experienced guys, some younger passionate and all high qualified, all flying or having flown for airlines and cargo.
The sim itself is realistic and belongs to the company (it's inside LAT's center but they have their offices and space for sim there), the SOPs well done too, I just wished to get it before going to the MCC when I suscribed to have more time to learn it, but on site it was fine.
We got for the last 3 days the CFI as instructor. He's simply amazing, he pushed us a lot, at the beginning I was freaking out about him, but he thinks very quickly and he's the most efficient instructor I got from my first hour of PPL, truly. He easily finds what are you weaknesses and helps to be better. He asks a lot of people, but besides he's very fair and positive, and out of the training he's a very nice guy!
It was not comfortable and we were not here to play with the sim, but the learning curve was very steep, I made progress and learnt about myself like I've never thought before, and his method works very well!
One minus point was sometimes the hours of sim, 2 times a very early wake up, the roster was in parallel stable as announced before the training, we had few very early sims as I wrote, few very late and few during daylight, it was a little bit complicated for my biorythm... but hey, you want to be a pilot, that's your future anyway, good to know how can be the life with this job... a minus for a plus so!
Last point, MCC JOC is not APS, according to regulation you attend all the course, you get the certificate... but that's not what Sky4U does, they have their standards (and they have high standards, good when you understand that it's maybe the last time you touch a sim before an assessment if you don't follow a sim preparation...), they train you to meet it and only when you reach what they want you to reach they give you the MCC. If you don't reach or fail something, you can get extra session, I don't know how it works and who pays for that, according to what I hear, it occured only a couple of times... Basically, they ask you a lot, but they give you the material to be ready for the sim, and if you do you job and commit yourself with personnal homework and full concentration within sim time, it can only go well.
I can only recommend them, but as I just wrote, you're not going to play with a sim for 2 weeks of holidays, prepare you to work and to put your skills to a new level.
I'll probably go there again for sim preparation, but I first have to be invited by an airline for that.
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Some really try
... to make Sky4u look good. Sure, if it's a student he doesn't want to graduate or receive a certificate from a crappy school. Otherwise if it's a paid marketing agency putting effort in good reviews and recommendations, it's simply cheating.
Whoever believes in this scheme is completely naive.
And Sky is in talks with different companies, Europe wide. They want a savior for some reasons. It's obvious. A sale may occur. Or an investor may buy in.
But it's f.....g hilarious that they promoted their non-existing sim center excessively. Now they're regarded a joke in Berlin. By the way: who is Kay Wachtelborn? Pretending to be somebody, in fact being nothing else than a criminal with an obvious track record. We had that already in other threads. Look again at his old contacts and friends.
Nothing more to say.
Whoever believes in this scheme is completely naive.
And Sky is in talks with different companies, Europe wide. They want a savior for some reasons. It's obvious. A sale may occur. Or an investor may buy in.
But it's f.....g hilarious that they promoted their non-existing sim center excessively. Now they're regarded a joke in Berlin. By the way: who is Kay Wachtelborn? Pretending to be somebody, in fact being nothing else than a criminal with an obvious track record. We had that already in other threads. Look again at his old contacts and friends.
Nothing more to say.
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At least I can go to marketing agency if I don't become a pilot :P
I don't know what are you talking about Kay, I just met him one time in Berlin, he was nice and fair, what happens with business after that is not my business, maybe you're true, maybe not, I don't know...
The only thing which was interesting me was the quality of training, and it's fine.
No idea about the building with sim center story, I've never heard something about that and we didn't talk about that (learning SOP and building CRM was enough actually...), the only thing I can say is that the sim belongs to Sim4U which is the sister company from Sky4U and is located in front of 4 FFS...
I don't know what are you talking about Kay, I just met him one time in Berlin, he was nice and fair, what happens with business after that is not my business, maybe you're true, maybe not, I don't know...
The only thing which was interesting me was the quality of training, and it's fine.
No idea about the building with sim center story, I've never heard something about that and we didn't talk about that (learning SOP and building CRM was enough actually...), the only thing I can say is that the sim belongs to Sim4U which is the sister company from Sky4U and is located in front of 4 FFS...
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Tevious
By posting here and ignoring my last posts and request you simply ignore the topic of this thread. And you keep posting the same on other threads, so your major interest is to promote a certain name.
You can do so, you have plenty of other threads and you can spam all over with your flightschool. But I'm about to vomit reading your and your aliases posts.
You can do so, you have plenty of other threads and you can spam all over with your flightschool. But I'm about to vomit reading your and your aliases posts.
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I understand that you need feedbacks from other ATO, anyway I'm fair and cannot agree when someone (who might had something to do or was related to the school) makes unfair and untrue bashing against.
I'm just now a frozen Atpl and I'm looking for a job (and they didn't give me any supply or connection for that), it was important for me to relate my experience in order to counter balance what some people say and which is from my experience completely wrong.
Now I have my MCC/JOC, I gave my feedback and said what I had to say, I won't take longer part in this topic, don't worry about potential spams, it won't be from me if it occurs.
I'm just now a frozen Atpl and I'm looking for a job (and they didn't give me any supply or connection for that), it was important for me to relate my experience in order to counter balance what some people say and which is from my experience completely wrong.
Now I have my MCC/JOC, I gave my feedback and said what I had to say, I won't take longer part in this topic, don't worry about potential spams, it won't be from me if it occurs.
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AMEN!!!
So much bull**** on this thread. The simple fact is APSMCC graduates are far better prepared for assessments and type rating. While Ryanair might have had a guiding hand in the regulation, many of the better MCC providers have offered enhanced versions for years.
The other key point is that the the APS has a test at the end of it, rather than just being an attendance course. I’ve trained hundreds of students on basic (20 hr) MCCs and I can tell you, we might have given them a certificate, (because they ‘completed’ the course), but only a few reached a point where I was confident they would pass a sim check. Many were awful including a percentage that I wouldn’t trust to sit the right way round on a lavatory let alone fly a transport category aircraft.
On an APS course there is a lot more scope to fix basic problems, and, if they cannot be fixed, then they will fail the APS assessment.
Simple fact is APSMCC holders have greater success rate at interview. You can bitch about the extra cost if you want, but as a percentage of your total spend it is small. If it gets you to a job a little bit quicker it pays for itself anyway.
Doing a basic MCC is a false economy.
The other key point is that the the APS has a test at the end of it, rather than just being an attendance course. I’ve trained hundreds of students on basic (20 hr) MCCs and I can tell you, we might have given them a certificate, (because they ‘completed’ the course), but only a few reached a point where I was confident they would pass a sim check. Many were awful including a percentage that I wouldn’t trust to sit the right way round on a lavatory let alone fly a transport category aircraft.
On an APS course there is a lot more scope to fix basic problems, and, if they cannot be fixed, then they will fail the APS assessment.
Simple fact is APSMCC holders have greater success rate at interview. You can bitch about the extra cost if you want, but as a percentage of your total spend it is small. If it gets you to a job a little bit quicker it pays for itself anyway.
Doing a basic MCC is a false economy.
Sorry if I missed it. Surely a Jet Orientation course and Multi Crew Co operation course are just that. Introducing you to a jet and multi crew.
Its not a test of flying the sim. That is what type ratings are for surely?
Its not a test of flying the sim. That is what type ratings are for surely?
Last edited by Climb150; 18th Dec 2019 at 01:49.
de minimus non curat lex
Whilst there is no formal Regulatory assessment for MCC, it is more than just an attendance course.
You do have to put in sufficient effort to reach a satisfactory.
JOC however is unregulated. The certificate issued for attending the course is a matter for the provider.
The APS is assessed and a minimum standard is required to be certified for the APS qualification. If the standard is not reached then a MCC certificate is another option.
I suppose a complete ‘no hoper’ leaves without any certificate.
Having said that, ‘never so never’ as a wise old hand one said to me many moons ago.
Last edited by parkfell; 20th Dec 2019 at 11:20. Reason: Add final sentence
