AFTA, Simtech, VA or any other school for APS MCC

[JamesBanda]

Did any of you do the intake assessment for the APS MCC at Sky4u, VA or AFTA recently?

[737crew]

EASA and RYR

As EASA is slow the APS program will be available the next years even if the officials change their mind about it. RYR did a good job in pushing it but most students unwilling to pay for it. Most of the cadets do a MCC before type rating starts with their employer. So no need for it. Legacy carriers all have own programs for their cadets, and mostly they pay for it.

[tevious]

which MCC

Hello,

I completed my Cpl/Ir/Me last week. I wanted to make an APS MCC with the Ryanair program with one of its partner school. I just sent the basic documents and I didn't have the possibility to try the assessment because the school said me that my application is not going further... I've no idea why, nothing bad in my resume, Atpl score (92% all first pass) and I've a qualified profil beside aviation.
I was in a small flight school in Poland and the training was fine.

Which Ato could you recommend to pass an APS MCC or MCC JOC to maximise the chances to get a job with Ryanair or other airlines? The partner school said me they don't know the reason about the "NO" and they propose me normal MCC JOC.

Thanks.

[JamesBanda]

Originally Posted by tevious

Hello,

I completed my Cpl/Ir/Me last week. I wanted to make an APS MCC with the Ryanair program with one of its partner school. I just sent the basic documents and I didn't have the possibility to try the assessment because the school said me that my application is not going further... I've no idea why, nothing bad in my resume, Atpl score (92% all first pass) and I've a qualified profil beside aviation.
I was in a small flight school in Poland and the training was fine.

Which Ato could you recommend to pass an APS MCC or MCC JOC to maximise the chances to get a job with Ryanair or other airlines? The partner school said me they don't know the reason about the "NO" and they propose me normal MCC JOC.

Thanks.

Which provider is that?

[parkfell]

Originally Posted by tevious

Hello,

I completed my Cpl/Ir/Me last week. I wanted to make an APS MCC with the Ryanair program with one of itzzzs partner school. I just sent the basic documents and I didn't have the possibility to try the assessment because the school said me that my application is not going further... I've no idea why, nothing bad in my resume, Atpl score (92% all first pass) and I've a qualified profil beside aviation.
I was in a small flight school in Poland and the training was fine.

Which Ato could you recommend to pass an APS MCC or MCC JOC to maximise the chances to get a job with Ryanair or other airlines? The partner school said me they don't know the reason about the "NO" and they propose me normal MCC JOC.

Thanks.

You need to visit those providers on your shortlist. A reputable ATO offering MCC/JOC will equate to APS. Compare the syllabus' and make your own decision.
If you have some trusted friends who recently completed the MCC phase, then take their advice.

What is critical is that you are a team player and produce a professional performance irrespective with whom you are paired up with. Having a constant bitch about them will go down like a lead balloon.

The acid test of maturity, which is an important characteristic for multi crew flying. Otherwise go back to the previous day job.

[tevious]

Ok,

The Ato was Sky4U, they don't have any informations about why "No", they said.
At this early stage, do you know if juste making application (I didn't pass the cut-E assessment...) and getting a No could give me minus point when I could apply for Ryanair after my MCC in few weeks?

Thanks.

[JamesBanda]

Originally Posted by tevious

Ok,

The Ato was Sky4U, they don't have any informations about why "No", they said.
At this early stage, do you know if juste making application (I didn't pass the cut-E assessment...) and getting a No could give me minus point when I could apply for Ryanair after my MCC in few weeks?

Thanks.

Did you take the cut-e and did not pass it or they didn't even give you the chance to take the test?

[tevious]

I didn't pass any assessment, just sent the documents they asked for, wait 1 day and today got email saying that my application is not going further...
I asked for a reason, they said they don't know themself and proposed me normal mcc/joc.

[JamesBanda]

Originally Posted by tevious

I didn't pass any assessment, just sent the documents they asked for, wait 1 day and today got email saying that my application is not going further...
I asked for a reason, they said they don't know themself and proposed me normal mcc/joc.

Very unprofessional!

[tevious]

I cannot say that... they are very fast responding and propose me alternative, I think that FR said no, but the question that no one can answer is why.

If I rely on some messages above it could be possible that the school is no longer in good situation with FR, maybe it's because of the MAX and it's not too a good signal for people who want to apply for FR, or maybe it's because of my school... nice but small at the North of Poland and not a "big name" like some others... Anyway I have to find a new solution.

[bh737]

Originally Posted by 737fan

​​​​​​I wrote down the price above. But it's good to provide once more. Does anybody have the price for Simtech?

I paid €6,800 at Simtech for the APS. I see they have a discount to €3,745 on the MCC/JOC course now and they're doing it on the 737-800...

[tevious]

Was it worthy to make the APS for you, did you get something with Ryr?

I don't know what is the value of Sky4U, I crawled between threads to find a MCC, I think that best country after UK for a job should be Germany (where is Sky4U indeed). I found another one, Cockpit4U, they propose me 3590€ for MCC/JOC on 737NG FFS.
Do you have any feedback about this one?

Do you know some ATOs who have connections with airlines and can help to get a job after the MCC?

If someone is looking for a MCC, ready to go and would like to come with me to C4U (not yet validated from my side but within next days if everything still ok), let me know, they can organize course only for us so we won't be bothered with regular schedule.

[parkfell]

Originally Posted by bh737

I paid €6,800 at Simtech for the APS. I see they have a discount to €3,745 on the MCC/JOC course now and they're doing it on the 737-800...

You would not be comparing apples with pears by any chance?

To be meaningful, you must compare exactly what each course is offering.......

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Originally Posted by bh737

I paid €6,800 at Simtech for the APS. I see they have a discount to €3,745 on the MCC/JOC course now and they're doing it on the 737-800...

To clarify, the MCC elements (20H) are carried out on the generic XJ simulator. Only the final 8 hours are carried out on the 738 sim. That's taken from Simtech's website.

[parkfell]

Just bear in mind that we are talking about MCC. The clue is in the name. This is the first opportunity for junior birdmen, post CPL/IR issue, to practice working as a crew. PF & PM. The harder part is PM, as you start the course with ZERO experience of the role. Quite simply " stick with the script ". The other new bit is getting away from R/T used during IR training and adopt "line flying R/T" iaw CAP413 (UK CAA).
The device, provided it is approved, will be adequate to start to learn the multi crew techniques. A taster. Learning the protocols, using simplified SOPs. TDODAR. NITS. etc

You do not need an " all singing and dancing" high tech FFS for this course which junior birdmen often think is their best bet.
They are getting confused with others courses which follow on from MCC.

[travis.karl]

Originally Posted by tevious

Was it worthy to make the APS for you, did you get something with Ryr?

I don't know what is the value of Sky4U, I crawled between threads to find a MCC, I think that best country after UK for a job should be Germany (where is Sky4U indeed). I found another one, Cockpit4U, they propose me 3590€ for MCC/JOC on 737NG FFS.
Do you have any feedback about this one?

Do you know some ATOs who have connections with airlines and can help to get a job after the MCC?

If someone is looking for a MCC, ready to go and would like to come with me to C4U (not yet validated from my side but within next days if everything still ok), let me know, they can organize course only for us so we won't be bothered with regular schedule.

C4U is a good choice. Would always recommend them. Sky4u on the contrary is apparently doing bad. So reputation wise you should go for C4U.

[Reverserbucket]

You do not need an "all singing and dancing" high tech FFS for this course which junior birdmen often think is their best bet.

But ATO marketing departments like to promote their high fidelity contemporary type FTD's as the best way to secure a first job - it surely isn't coincidence that those offering APS in a 738 sim were apparently 'partnering' with RYR to provide flow to the airline? A student pilot and their money are easily parted by targeted, confident sales pitch, particularly where technology is concerned (I recall the introduction of the G1000 and the schools suggesting the improved chances of finding a job on an EFIS type if you trained in a DA40/42 instead of a PA28/34, irrespective of the suitability of the type for training, etc.).

The question really should be, how did we manage before MCC/JOC/APS? I don't recall type-ratings taking any longer than they do today or the ability of freshly minted CPL/IR holders to acclimatise to a multi-crew environment, or modified R/T (in the UK at least, CAP413 is used at IR level as well btw). In any event, a lot of multi-crew discipline could be conducted in a more cost efficient manner in the classroom complemented by inexpensive cockpit trainers, rather than the high-end devices often used. The real difference lies in the basic ability of these individuals in my view; many simply don't appear to have competently grasped the fundamentals of attitude and speed control in a light single which makes the transition to a CS23/25 type and associated multi-crew concept more of a handful.

APS is a significant increase in cost to the student over MCC and further widens the gap between those with genuine ability and interest versus those with the facility to pay. It is a travesty that the time and effort devoted to creating APS was not spent reinforcing the front-end of training, and that EASA feels that deficiencies in basic training can be smoothed-over through adoption of a course of approved training in a more complex, faster paced training environment. But then of course, there's comparatively little profit in single-engine piston training vs what you can make per hour in a FFS.

[travis.karl]

MCC sufficient

Since my first posting on this forum I'm telling that the APS is nonsense. But still many students unsure about what to do.
​​​​

[737fan]

Thread is for all good flight schools providing APS MCC

Not the small aggressive one from Berlin. And I would highly appreciate if the people stick to my request. I started this thread to collect and share exoereience and information about AFTA, Simtech, VA, Bartolini (now) etc
For sure you can not compensate less quality with big marketing, people will find out but it will take some time.
Thank you

[BoeingLudo737]

Originally Posted by 737fan

Many new cadets invited and passed RYR with MCC only, most of them no APS students. On other hand many APS students failed. That's what I heard from inside.

I will reveal your identity.

You are a training organisation which provides MCC training and you are trying to discredit APS MCC providers and the course itself as much as you can.
The above information you gave is totally untrue and unfounded.
Assessments stats are directly available on the RYR website.
Stop lying to people on this forum