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SKY4u APS MCC for Ryanair

Old 12th Jun 2019, 11:56
  #81 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
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It will take you at least 10 years to become a Captain with RYR from now, and by the time you reach that stage, they might not even have base in Poland anymore, or they might have changed all.

I am pretty sure you will never see that amount 148.000 Euros, it's like you living in a fantasy world. I would guess that RYR in Poland would rather employ more pilots to have better standby coverage, each flying less hours, as it will not cost the company any extra, example 30 pilots working there, instead of 20 pilots, as they only guarantee the minimum amount of 30 hours a month. The only extra cost will be the initial training. Also you can expect long time to command if you only waiting for Poland base, as if the jobs are filled with locals, most of them will not move to other base or other company, as they want to be home based.

You say 19% deductible or 8.5 % non deductible? What exactly do you mean?
You still pay tax and national insurance, that whole amount comes of whatever you are making. I don't know what national insurance is in Poland, but from what you say tax is 19% and everyone has to make national insurance contribution.

I think you have a steep learning curve ahead.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 14:09
  #82 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
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KT - I was telling you approx. time for you to become a RYR Captain from your current position today. And the way the market is looking at the moment. One big company like NAS goes bust, and suddenly there will be thousands of pilots, ready trained to walk into most jobs in Europe, RYR specially because they are 737 rated.
These kind of things can happen, and whatever plans you might have today, by the time your training is finished it can have changed completely.

You seem to twist words to suit your understanding, I said they guarantee minimum 30 hours a month, I know of guys on similar contracts with other companies, where FO's during the winter struggled to even reach 20 - 30 hours a month, sure you get hammered in summer / peak season with 70 - 100 hours, but when you are paid by block hour only, it does not cost the company much to have more pilots working for them. As long as they average it of 30 hours a month a minimum.
Companies generally need to have standby cover, so they if an aircraft needs minimum 7 FO's and 7 Captains to operate, they might increase this to a higher number, as you are on Zero hour contract, so it does not cost the company anything extra to have 12 FO's and 12 Captains each aircraft, but each FO and each Captain flies less than maximum hours a month.
You will notice most the companies who operate like this, have very low flight hours in the 6 - 7 winter months, hence they guarantee minimum 30 hours. And during 6 winter months you might never fly much more than these minimum hours.
They do this so they have good coverage during summer, when schedule is much more busy.

There is no shortage of "cadet pilots", there is shortage of experienced Captains and experienced FO's to a certain degree. But if a couple large companies goes bust in the next couple of years, which is very likely, than there is no shortage anymore even for experienced crews. Another thing is that airlines are not very good to plan crewing far ahead of time, they often become reactive, suddenly they discover they don't have enough crew, and when this happens it's faster and cheaper to get people in with experience, than go trough the whole process of training a cadet up from scratch, because most companies don't have the capacity to this, lack of trainers, lack of simulators etc. This is how it works.

Experienced Captains and FO's will not be happy to sign a contract where the guaranteed base pay is only 30 hours average a month, this puts all the advantage with the airlines, you however think this is a great contract, because you believe in the "pie in the sky" calculating how much you might make as a Captain, when you haven't even finished your theory ATPL's yet.
First you have to go trough painful years as a Second Officer, First Officer etc., before you might pass or fail a Command assessment in X amount of years.
That starts at 43 Euros an hour, and after maybe 1 year goes up to 63 Euros, before it becomes 78 Euros. And you are not calculating anything what Ryanair will make you pay out of this money for your recurrent sims, uniform, unscheduled night stops paying for your own hotel, food etc.

Generally most "reputable" companies don't fly Cadets / new SO's to 900 hours a year, as if they did they would probably burn out within the first 6 months. Many companies cap the hours for the first 12 months, when you join the company as a cadet. During line training you will generally also not fly anything close to the hours required.

The reason I mention that APS is not essential, is that when you join a company, you will first do initial TR, with the companies SOP's, after you will do a company introduction, which is nearly the same as another TR - but where you get checked to companies standards. Which is generally much higher than is required to just get a TR.
As you generally don't know where you will have first interview, what type and when you will have it, the APS becomes a "lottery" if you time it correctly. Hence I don't see a massive advantage of it, sure if you don't care about the money go ahead, knock yourself out. But don't think that will in any way shape or form, give you a massive advantage ahead of someone who has not done it.
I have done a few assessments in my life, passed them all, and nothing during the assessment was related to either MCC , JOC or any other training I had done in the past. Those courses are a "nice" introduction to what Multi Crew environment is, and how it works when you only have been doing single pilot flying in the past, but they are generally of a very generic format. There is no trainer assessing you as a Cadet, that expects you to do a perfect flawless sim.
It also makes it more difficult for them to judge what progress you are making during a sim session, when you have maybe learned some bad habits, if not properly trained to the standards that the company wants.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 14:45
  #83 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 752
[QUOTE=KT1988;10492046]@parkfell: Well I am never generalizing so anyone can be here, I have read a lot on this forum and while some people are both helpful and enthusiastic about the job some mostly complain or appear to believe at least the job is nothing special and equal to a 8-16 desk job. And stuff that some people write that someone gotta be crazy if he wants to fly more (flying for fun or SEP is not the same as flying on autopilot in cruise from what people say) than what he does at his job.... happily in real life I met those "crazy" people. You can not understand human nature from a discussion forum. Once again its becoming a great off topic.QUOTE]

You have got me well and truly beaten with your gobbledegook above. Probably what Michael Gove might have written 20 years ago whilst under the influence of you know what.
i think that I shall send it to SQA (Scottish Exam Board) so that can include it in their "plain (not plane) English competition" whereby it is rewritten in simple understandable English.

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Old 12th Jun 2019, 16:37
  #84 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,004
NAS possibility going bankrupt within 1 - 2 years, has nothing to do with recession, it's just unsustainable business model large amount of debts. Of course I hope it will not happen, but the chances are big of it happening.

Recently happen to many good airlines, Monarch, Air Berlin etc. If these companies go under, it was because the numbers did not add up. So nobody is going to replace them, straight away if the numbers don't add up.
I would never go to a new or small airline these days, because the odds of them surviving are not the best.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 17:36
  #85 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
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Funny that when NAS did not profit on the SAS strike, as their profits and passenger numbers was down during a period where NAS seats should have been fully booked, due to the SAS strike.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 21:03
  #86 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
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NAS problem is their massive debts, the bubble will burst eventually unfortunately.

I guess how quick you get the call / email from RyR depends on several factors. RyR works like this, if you want base in Poland, they will send you somewhere else. Enjoy.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 22:04
  #87 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
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Kutaisi - Yes sure that will be an enjoyable stay. I know guys refusing command, because they don't want to be sent there. You go to a base where nobody wants to go, you get stuck indefinite.
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