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SKY4u APS MCC for Ryanair

Old 10th Jun 2019, 12:15
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Thank you for your comment, Rob

Originally Posted by Rob Howarth View Post
Hello All,

I have been watching this thread for sometime now and read some valuable inputs from contributors.

As way of introduction, I am fortune enough to be at the helm of CRM Aviation Europe, an EASA ATO specialising in MCC and JOC training for the past 9 years. We, CRM Aviation, are therefore very well connected within the commercial aviation recruiting market, seeing 130+ MCC customers each year, of which a very large proportion secure multi crew opportunities. I have stood and watched the introduction of APS MCC and it's fledgling ATO's attempt to maximise on this by use of some interesting marketing techniques.

As we continue to train our MCC/JOC customers, I felt in was necessary, in this very buoyant recruiting market to point out a few facts. Rather than list it all here, I would invite you to visit this link - https://www.crmeurope.com/whats-new/

I hope that the information in this link is of use or clarity to people.

Regards,
Exactly my idea and definitely reflecting the impression of most aviators. But some certain flight schools are trying hard to shed positive light on APS. Especially one seems to be deeply involved in APS matters and constantly promoting their name on all threads.
I'm repeating myself but the APS is still making no sense to fresh and new pilots. Just stick to what is required by law. And that's a standard MCC.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 15:24
  #62 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Rob Howarth View Post
Hello All,

I have been watching this thread for sometime now and read some valuable inputs from contributors.

As way of introduction, I am fortune enough to be at the helm of CRM Aviation Europe, an EASA ATO specialising in MCC and JOC training for the past 9 years. We, CRM Aviation, are therefore very well connected within the commercial aviation recruiting market, seeing 130+ MCC customers each year, of which a very large proportion secure multi crew opportunities. I have stood and watched the introduction of APS MCC and it's fledgling ATO's attempt to maximise on this by use of some interesting marketing techniques.

As we continue to train our MCC/JOC customers, I felt in was necessary, in this very buoyant recruiting market to point out a few facts. Rather than list it all here, I would invite you to visit this link - https://www.crmeurope.com/whats-new/

I hope that the information in this link is of use or clarity to people.

Regards,
It is interesting that Upset Training & Recovery is being introduced as an EASA requirement in 2019.

I do get a sense of dťjŗ vu. Many moons ago ( last century ) when CAP509 UK professional training existed, I was a QFI at BAe Flying College, Prestwick. The approved course was 200 hours flying light ac plus simulator. Various airlines sent their cadets to Scotland for a 16 month course. The last 2 months was called LOFT training in a HS125-800. The prerequisite to MCC.

The single engine flying was conducted on PA28-161 and a beautiful Swiss trainer AS 202 Bravo. 180hp VP fully aerobatic machine, with no limit to inverted flight. Not only stalling, spinning, upset training were taught but also the 5 basic aerobatic manoeuvres. The final SE test, PT5, required competency to be demonstrated of the syllabus. The confidence gained by the junior birdmen was a matter of routine.

Then the 1st Gulf War. Recession etc. Beancounters in the airlines wanted to cut costs. The famous quote by the then MD at PIK
" no good producing a Rolls Royce product, when the customers only want a Ford Escort".

So good bye SE quality training, hello 2 hours stall and spin awareness. Events happen, eventual scratching of the EASA head, and perhaps we need to prevent these accidents. Let us introduce some upset training. If only quality training had survived....



Last edited by parkfell; 10th Jun 2019 at 15:54.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 16:23
  #63 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Reverserbucket View Post
So there's an assessment uncle dickie? Are there any approved APS courses available yet by the way?

parkfell offers a very good summary of the issue facing trainers in a number of airlines at the moment where a type-rating candidate is compliant but has no material understanding or depth or knowledge in any of the desired competencies. The time and energy spent creating APS (largely as a result of ATO lobbying following CAT LOC-I events such as AF447) might have been devoted to creating a better and more robust fundamental training philosophy that taught students properly, from the start, how to select basic attitudes, control the aeroplane throughout the entire flight, including recognition and recovery from incipient and developed stall/spin scenarios and a more disciplined approach and landing capability. Watching the recent easyjet 'Inside the Cockpit' series I found it quite revealing in terms of how much coaching seems to have been provided by the trainers at various stages where handling was required. The path to the right-hand seat of a commercial airliner has changed, in my view over the years - integrated students were more often than not, highly selected and/or airline sponsored/selected pre-training and the modular or 'self-improver route required gaining considerably more experience flying as an instructor then perhaps in a piston-twin or turboprop prior to reaching eligibility to join a jet operator; if the suggestion is that APS somehow fills this gap today and also masks the trainee pilot's basic handling ability then that's a rather short-sighted approach to tackling a much more significant problem in our industry.
You are entirely correct. The APS or MCC/JOC will not remedy the potential inability to select an attitude and TRIM. Such matters should have been taught during the light ac training phase. Unless quality instruction is present it is hardly surprising that junior birdmen fail to be taught the basics with a high level of skill. They muddle through, pass the IRT on a DA42 ( the perfect ac for PPL/IR schools for the weekend flyers) and are awarded a CPL/IR. Commercial flying here I come.
L3 recent order of PIPER ac, PA28 & PA44 is revealing. No doubt the beancounters were part of this decision, but from a training point of view, they are ideal for what professional training requires. Selecting an attitude and then accurate trimming. Without this, accurate speed control climbing or descending or S/L will not be achieved. The acid test I would suggest?
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 20:41
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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I agree 100% with Karl and Rob's opinion regarding the APS, this is a ploy to get more money out of students, offering little real value.

Regarding upset recovery training etc., candidates entering an MCC / JOC course, with no experience on Jet, can't be expected to get any value out of Upset recovery training performed during such a course.
A fundamental flaw with most these simulators, is that they are not very realistic for Upset recovery training, simply limited by their design. The Simulators are generally not good enough or realistic enough in their design, to give proper training for these events.

Airlines are putting Upset Recovery training into their Sim training programs, however the value of it is in my opinion very limited, and that is for experienced pilots, never-mind what insignificant value this will have for a new fresh CPL/IR pilot.

The MCC is as been said the the regulatory / mandatory introduction to Multi Crew environment, and primary objective is to learn to work as a team, learn basics about CRM, crew coordination, in normal and abnormal operations.

The "fake news" advert from APS adverts, is that it will improve your chances of getting a job, that it will put you in the front of the line when applying. This is nonsense, even if RYR write that these candidates will be given "preference" for an assessment, this is not the same as saying they will be given preference for a job offer, these are two very different things.
So far I do not know anyone who have applied for Ryanair, how have not been given the chance for an assessment, but I know a few who both got a job with them, and did not get a job with them after their initial assessment.

To get a job without getting into to much debt, it's important to spend your money wisely, save your money for refresher sims when you know you have an assessment. A 2 week APS course is not going to give you anything of benefit.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 20:59
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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@2unlimited: Well I do know many great instructors and pilots who were not called by Ryanair in 2018 after applying (or who were called when they already were doing a type rating for another airline) and who all got their airline jobs. They did also have first time passes etc. (while someone without was called so it looked totally random who Ryanair call). But maybe if you have used 100 000 Euro on a famous flight school then Ryanair will call no matter what kind of MCC/JOC you will do, but for people who rather save 60 000 Euro its worth to pay 6000 to actually get called and the chance in the assessment ( For example VA claim that 97 % of their students get calls from different airlines during the first month after the APS MCC and they claim to have proof).

So its how you look at it better to save 60 000 or 6000 Euro? Other than that it depend from the student what he will get out of a course. If you prepare before and keep doing sim sessions after it then it will probably help also on the assessment itself. As for the HR interview having ideas like yours about "stepping stone in the career" in the back of your mind may be found out by good assessors and there is maybe the reason of people failing HR interview? By the way did you see the BA vs EK thread in terms and endearment forum? Did you see the first officer salary after 20 years and the captain salary after upgrade. Now deduct UK tax from it and compare it to Ryanair Captain salary in Poland (in case of doing 700 to 900 hours per year as people claim happen) and deduct 19 % deductible or 9 % non deductible tax. Then compare living costs.... then you will learn why people would rather fly for Ryanair especially if they are not very interested in living in UK for example. As for Germany in addition to learning German to much higher level than communicative and passing the DLR it will also take some time before someone can earn at Lufthansa what a Ryanair Captain can earn...... In Poland its more like "race to the top" to get to Ryanair at least if its about salary. As for enjoying flying 787 cockpit seat is only available at LOT.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 02:24
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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KT1988; Not every reply is aimed at you.
My flight school was not integrated and nobody paid £100.000 to go to that school.

Not everyone wants to live in a shit hole like Poland, even the Polish donít want to live there, so give it a rest of how rich you think you will be in Poland.

97 % getting an assessment does not mean they get a job, at my old flight school 100% had an assessment, but it has NOTHING to do with the Flight school.

It was a modular school that had a good reputation, so when VA are claiming 97% have an assessment, that does not
mean this is because of VA.

Besides that you are becoming pretty tiresome for someone who is not even yet qualified or working as a pilot, and you seem pretty desperate to try to flog your Goldwings school where you clearly have invested interest if
you are renting them your c172.

It must be a pretty unstable school, if they canít even afford to own their own aircraft, what will happen if you or others just leave with your aircraft?

People much more experienced than you can tell you the APS is no golden ticket, if you are good enough you will get job, the APS will not make or break you.

The airlines want to see progress from one session to the next.

Regarding HR interview, who cares, itís all a game of
smoke and mirrors, you need to know what they want to hear.

A good advice if you get a job, find something more to talk about than aviation, nobody wants to sit 10 hours hearing about a C172 that you own.

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Old 11th Jun 2019, 08:45
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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As an APS student I would like to contribute here. I completed my APS in March and I found it very intense, the school really had super high expectations and wanted all the procedures known.

Too much expectations for an MCC in my opinion but I guess it's called Airline Pilots Standard for a reason which to be honest I wasn't expecting their standards to be so high

Anyway the course was very good, learned so much on the MCC probably more than if I would have done an MCC JOC instead.

My goal from before I even started my training was to get in to the right hand seat of a well known Irish airline, I weighed up my options and decided it was probably worth the extra money to do the APS because they state on record you will have an advantage and I wanted to maximise my chances to be employed by them. Holding an APS means you are less of a training risk in the eyes of the airline as you have completed an MCC to a higher standard than non APS students so I bit the bullet and did it.

My application process went very quickly, within 3 weeks of first applying I found myself in their Headquarters being interviewed, They asked me about my MCC as well on the interview, I don't know if it made the difference between getting the job and not getting the job but I felt it helped get the interview at the very least and if I could go back I wouldn't change anything, I took a lot of confidence from my MCC that I'm not sure I would have taken having done a standard MCC JOC so for me I felt like it paid off personally speaking.

I would say however that my sim partner got the job as well who must have spent 2-3k on his MCC in a school I never heard of and on an airplane I never heard of so that made me feel like I wasted my money a bit haha. As I said previously I would do an APS again if I had to go back and make a decision again but in my situation money wasn't a problem for me and maybe if you're on a budget then it's probably best to do an MCC JOC in the meantime

This is just my own experience and opinion on the matter of APS vs MCC JOC, I hope you found it helpful.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 09:00
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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@2unlimited: But since you tell people that they save a lot by not going to APS MCC then I have to tell about the more obvious thing that is saving much more on not doing integrated programs. And the part about Ryanair you said it to everyone so I felt like destroying your illusion about legacy airlines.... Ryanair actually give a better salary if you calculate waiting 20 years to become Captain in a legacy airline. In addition I just wondered why you are so much against APS MCC and care that people do not misuse 6000 Euro (or less because MCC/JOC also cost) but never saw you care about people not losing 60 000 or say integrated does not give them a job unless its a program with guaranteed job. Not every example is about you, this one was for other people wondering what to pay for.

As for "shit holes" as you nicely call it (probably inspired by a president most socialists do not like (no he is not capitalist) ), some people also do not want to live in a socialist "shit hole" that will tax them to death to pay for drunkards, jail hotels, fancy toilets and other welfare for those afraid of work, and they will be happy to live places like Poland after they learn how it is for real today not 30 years ago.. The Polish who do not want to live there today are mostly "factory workers" and those who dream of working little while getting the "free stuff". Its an aviation forum so we talk about pilots.... so tell me how many Polish pilots do not want to live in Poland? As for other nations some people even go to the Middle East to not live in a socialist "shit hole" but they do not need to go so far away to get decent netto salary after tax. And I believe I am only tiresome for you when I brush away your ideas about what is "race to the bottom" or what is so good for the pilots while they actually get better TCs from Ryanair than they do at your legacy carriers where people have to pay a lot of tax in addition to a overall lower salary (calculate 20 years as FO). I came with facts about Ryanair salary and the facts about legacy carrier salary have been told by others in the BA vs EK thread.

Regarding HR interview its you who kept telling people its where most pilots fail, I told you what might be the reason for people with ideas like yours. If the airline feel someone is not interested in giving 100 % for the best of the company they might not wish that person even if he is "the best pilot on earth". Regarding talking about aviation, I do really, really hope I meet pilots like those at my school for whom aviation is not just a job but also their hobby and who enjoy flying in every possible way. It seems for me that for you its no difference if you fly or sit behind a desk from 8-16.... so just a job no passion left probably. I hope to not meet too many people who wish to just get the salary and do not enjoy at all the pilot job...... they are probably just as unhappy as if they were sitting behind a desk doing a normal boring job.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 09:19
  #69 (permalink)  

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KT 1988

Have you ever thought about packing in aviation and think about being a lawyer instead?

Your qualities as demonstrated on PPRuNe ..........Argumentative: always thinking you are right: always wanting to have the last word.......

It would be interesting if you ever did some psychometric testing such as "16 PF" and revealed the results.
It would not surprise me to learn that "there is enough material for a complete conference" to borrow a famous quote from Faulty Towers.

As for having to occupy a flight deck with you for a day...........would you pass the beer test...?

I am inclined to agree with some recent advice given to you on PPRuNe ......give it rest....pass your exams....get a job...get some experience.....then start pontificating.

Beter still think about the Law.....you are far more suited to that as an occupation.


Last edited by parkfell; 11th Jun 2019 at 11:57. Reason: Syntax
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 09:33
  #70 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Victor Golf View Post
As an APS student I would like to contribute here. I completed my APS in March and I found it very intense, the school really had super high expectations and wanted all the procedures known.

Too much expectations for an MCC in my opinion but I guess it's called Airline Pilots Standard for a reason which to be honest I wasn't expecting their standards to be so high

Anyway the course was very good, learned so much on the MCC probably more than if I would have done an MCC JOC instead.

My goal from before I even started my training was to get in to the right hand seat of a well known Irish airline, I weighed up my options and decided it was probably worth the extra money to do the APS because they state on record you will have an advantage and I wanted to maximise my chances to be employed by them. Holding an APS means you are less of a training risk in the eyes of the airline as you have completed an MCC to a higher standard than non APS students so I bit the bullet and did it.

My application process went very quickly, within 3 weeks of first applying I found myself in their Headquarters being interviewed, They asked me about my MCC as well on the interview, I don't know if it made the difference between getting the job and not getting the job but I felt it helped get the interview at the very least and if I could go back I wouldn't change anything, I took a lot of confidence from my MCC that I'm not sure I would have taken having done a standard MCC JOC so for me I felt like it paid off personally speaking.

I would say however that my sim partner got the job as well who must have spent 2-3k on his MCC in a school I never heard of and on an airplane I never heard of so that made me feel like I wasted my money a bit haha. As I said previously I would do an APS again if I had to go back and make a decision again but in my situation money wasn't a problem for me and maybe if you're on a budget then it's probably best to do an MCC JOC in the meantime

This is just my own experience and opinion on the matter of APS vs MCC JOC, I hope you found it helpful.
,

If you attend MCC, MCC/JOC, APS, with solid basic skills you will succeed. To a large extent this is determined by the quality of light ac training. You bring these skills with you.
The post CPL/IR issue phase merely demonstrates how well you were previously taught, and puts some icing on the cake, and for some a few cherries on top as well. There is no magic wand. Steer hard focused work will always pay dividends.

Choose your basic training provider with great care....



Last edited by parkfell; 11th Jun 2019 at 11:44. Reason: syntax
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 09:54
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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@parkfell: I am working on my exams all the time, so sometimes when I take a break I write something on the forum (I write pretty fast.... because writing was part of my past lawyer job). I thought this part of the forum was meant for pilots who have not yet gotten their professional license, and I asked questions about APS MCC program. The discussion started to go off topic as always after 2unlimited joined it. I confess I have very strong belief in freedom and capitalism and dislike socialism of any kind so I do reply when someone call Ryanair "race to the bottom" while the offer they got in Poland is better than most legacy carriers in whole Europe. And I will also defend the Polish self employment system and airlines who make proper legal contracts so people do not have to pay too much tax. And when Poland get called "shit hole" I will also reply what I think about Norway (I guess its where 2unlimited is originally from) and their taxes. When net salary is compared and the price level there is no worse nation wise T&C for pilots than living in Norway.

Sorry if it went too much off topic but I can not just let obvious wrong statements just stand there like that about Ryanair unanswered when its the best T&C airline in Poland. And since you ask then another off topic: actually I hated to work with law (not to mention I hated living in Norway). I did study law because in the past I thought just about what will give the best salary and not what is fun to work with. Well that changed I understood I do not want to sit behind a desk for the rest of my life and especially not behind one in Norway where the more I worked the more was taken from me to pay for whatever the state thought was a bright idea to throw money at. So no I will never again perform a job like that, rather do something I really like even if it is less rewarding. I will never ever go back to living in Norway, I enjoy freedom and I enjoy a culture where its not desired that people who do not wish to work shall get as equal money as possible to those who work hard. Differences are natural people are individuals, not some collective average beings.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 10:46
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KT1988 View Post
@parkfell: I am working on my exams all the time, so sometimes when I take a break I write something on the forum (I write pretty fast.... because writing was part of my past lawyer job). I thought this part of the forum was meant for pilots who have not yet gotten their professional license, and I asked questions about APS MCC program. The discussion started to go off topic as always after 2unlimited joined it. I confess I have very strong belief in freedom and capitalism and dislike socialism of any kind so I do reply when someone call Ryanair "race to the bottom" while the offer they got in Poland is better than most legacy carriers in whole Europe. And I will also defend the Polish self employment system and airlines who make proper legal contracts so people do not have to pay too much tax. And when Poland get called "shit hole" I will also reply what I think about Norway (I guess its where 2unlimited is originally from) and their taxes. When net salary is compared and the price level there is no worse nation wise T&C for pilots than living in Norway.

Sorry if it went too much off topic but I can not just let obvious wrong statements just stand there like that about Ryanair unanswered when its the best T&C airline in Poland. And since you ask then another off topic: actually I hated to work with law (not to mention I hated living in Norway). I did study law because in the past I thought just about what will give the best salary and not what is fun to work with. Well that changed I understood I do not want to sit behind a desk for the rest of my life and especially not behind one in Norway where the more I worked the more was taken from me to pay for whatever the state thought was a bright idea to throw money at. So no I will never again perform a job like that, rather do something I really like even if it is less rewarding. I will never ever go back to living in Norway, I enjoy freedom and I enjoy a culture where its not desired that people who do not wish to work shall get as equal money as possible to those who work hard. Differences are natural people are individuals, not some collective average beings.
Beer test .......most likely a FAIL

Team player: doubtful

SURVIVAL CHANCES RHS.....under 50%
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 11:02
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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@uncle dickie: Never heard of it being included in any airline assessment and is it not so that every airline got a different "beer test" because probably every airline got a different culture? I can also hardly imagine that absolutely every Captain and every FO even within the same company always got matching personalities. I believe the airlines wish that people are first of all professional about performing the flying task no matter if they got the same beliefs or not.

Its simple if I ever meet a Captain (with a base in Poland those will be very few) in the cockpit who is a socialist just skip talking about anything politics or T&C etc. related. And if he talks about his beliefs I will just avoid the topic and skip sharing my beliefs in order to not drive the focus away from the professional task. But a forum is definitely a place where aviation related topics can be discussed and where comments about airlines like "race to the bottom" can be replied especially when facts about salaries tell a different story. Of course we should try to stay on topic that was APS MCC but when someone go off topic then its natural to reply, especially when the topic is APS MCC for RYANAIR.

As for the APS MCC I do still believe its useful if proper effort is put into getting as much as possible out of it. Plus on the forum people write whatever they wish to write, while I got real examples from pilots about assessment calls when talking to them personally. So if someone on the forum say that Ryanair will call for sure but pilots in real life say its not true then I do rather believe the real life examples. So for me APS MCC actually give extra assessment chances. So I wanted to get info about the different providers to see who will give me the most for the money....
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 11:51
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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I would like to be a fly on the wall if / when you go on your MCC course.
That will prove to be very interesting indeed.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 12:07
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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@uncle dickie: If it is allowed by the provider I can make a video (put a cam on behind) that will also show how the APS MCC course looks like so people can watch what it is about and how it is being performed it would be more descriptive than the websites. Forums are for discussions, schools are for learning and cockpit is to perform the professional task. I believe the clue is proper behavior in the proper place for it.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 12:12
  #76 (permalink)  

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KT1988

Probably best you do the psychometric testing "PF16" or equivalent, once the CPL/IR phase is complete.
You need to understand your Strengths and Weaknesses.
Airline Prep in the UK "fine tune" candidates prior to interviews.
Going in "all guns blazing" is rarely successful.

Airlines often include such testing as part of their recruitment process.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 23:28
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by uncle dickie View Post
I would like to be a fly on the wall if / when you go on your MCC course.
That will prove to be very interesting indeed.
I would like to be a fly on the wall when he goes for real job interview.

KT1988, one of the things interviewers look for during an interview is how you will be to sit with for the next 12 hours of the day.
Assessment interviews are often done by other Flight Crew , FOs, Captains or/ and HR specialists.
The favourite question is of course, tell me something negative about yourself?

(Airline Prep in U.K. is good and I can recommend)

Probably would have to be the Vodka test instead of the beer test.

KT1988 you missing the point, this job is a a day out where you do a professional job, just because you donít sit thinking and talking aviation does not mean you havenít got passion for your job.
I would definitely not want someone only able to talk about flying sitting next to me during 12 hour day, Itís long hard days, fatigue is a big issue, and money is not everything in life, your big dream airlines are RYANAIR and Emirates, the 2 airlines the majority of professional pilots dislike the most. I suggest you check some posts in the ME forum on EK.

Priorities in life changes, flying is a job, we donít live to work, we work to live.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 06:16
  #78 (permalink)  

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KT1988
When I go down to the bookies today to have a punt on Bojo, I wonder if they will give me odds on KT 1988 surviving the CPL/IR course?
KT reminds me of a 10 week pup, Arthur, I met for the first time last weekend. He is not house trained either yet.

During your previous life in the legal profession, would you say that you were a team player? Were you resentful when your mentors gave you advice? Did you demonstrate empathy to your colleagues and clients? Were you the 'go to' person when an serious urgent matter arose? These are some of the characteristics required on the flight deck, common to very many professions.

Last edited by parkfell; 12th Jun 2019 at 11:27. Reason: Added final paragraph
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 08:33
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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I think you don't understand the personality question KT, lack of experience would not really explain your personality. They are looking for personality issues, and how you dealt with it. I have to say, based on some of your opinions and views, you will be struggling to convince fellow pilots with some of your views about the industry.

"some who have done 15 000 hours still enjoy to fly as much as possible"

Not really, some prefer to spend time with family, friends, children enjoying life, social life, social skills is the key. I know certain companies don't care about your home out of work, social life, and they just want robots who turn up and work work, you will probably be well suited for such a company. However you will soon discover that most people working in these companies, also rather want to spend time with their families / friends etc. than fly as much as possible.
This does not mean they don't love flying or love their work, it's about balance between work life and out of work life. If you fly close to 800 - 900 hour a year, that is more than enough flying for most normal people.

And you keep banging on about RYR salaries in Poland, not sure where you get the figure 148.000 Euro from, as not even Captains outside Poland make this money before tax. So I highly doubt RYR are going to make Polish pilots their highest earners. You clearly don't understand how RYR works, if you believe that you will be paid that kind of money from RYR. I think you need to get some kind of Reality Check.

Still it will take many years before you will even be close to that bracket, it's not a given that everyone is a captain after 3 - 4 years working for the airline. It depends on the market and many other aspects, training, sims demand inside the company etc.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 11:51
  #80 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 752
KT1988

I don't think that you have a scooby....

Regarding your reference approaching retirement, those who hate flying wouldn't post on PPRuNe as they would want to put aviation firmly to the back of their minds. Understanding human nature doesn't appear to be one of your strong points?

Last edited by parkfell; 12th Jun 2019 at 12:02.
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