Bartolini Air MEP MEIR CPL Feedback Please
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Bartolini Air MEP MEIR CPL Feedback Please
I would like to get some recent feedback for this school. I know its very popular and gets good results, however getting feedback is like getting blood from a stone.
Could any current or recent students give some feedback for myself and others who are considering going there. If you can, please answer the following;
Your overall thoughts about the school?
A/c availability?
Instructor availability?
Quality of communication between you and staff?
WX situation?
How was the CPL course?
Do they prep the a/c for you before each flight or is that up to you?
What about the IR, good SOPs, briefing, much time spent on autopilot, what sort of approaches do they teach?
How long did it take to do the course?
Anything else worth mentioning?
Where did you stay and how did you travel to/from there school?
I'm looking feedback for the modular MEP MEIR CPL NOT the 0 to fATPL course.
Many thanks for any info, if you don't want to post here please pm.
Could any current or recent students give some feedback for myself and others who are considering going there. If you can, please answer the following;
Your overall thoughts about the school?
A/c availability?
Instructor availability?
Quality of communication between you and staff?
WX situation?
How was the CPL course?
Do they prep the a/c for you before each flight or is that up to you?
What about the IR, good SOPs, briefing, much time spent on autopilot, what sort of approaches do they teach?
How long did it take to do the course?
Anything else worth mentioning?
Where did you stay and how did you travel to/from there school?
I'm looking feedback for the modular MEP MEIR CPL NOT the 0 to fATPL course.
Many thanks for any info, if you don't want to post here please pm.
Last edited by MaverickPrime; 13th May 2018 at 14:23.
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Your overall thoughts about the school?
Very positive.
A/c availability?
They are maintained in-house and instructors do a good job at making sure you will fly. Of course, you always have to account for unforeseen events.
Instructor availability?
Most of the instructors are full-time instructors and it's not unheard of reaching 100 hours per month for some of them.
Quality of communication between you and staff?
In my case, it was always very good. The whole staff is very friendy.
WX situation?
It's Poland, you get all the seasons. The best period is between April and October but thunderstorms can be frequent.
How was the CPL course?
It was alright, they do a great job at IR training.
Do they prep the a/c for you before each flight or is that up to you?
What do you mean they prepare the aircraft for you? You have to prepare your flights and you also have to do a walk around and all the rest associated with your flying task.
What about the IR, good SOPs, briefing, much time spent on autopilot, what sort of approaches do they teach?
Top notch quality in my opinion. You won't do NDB approaches simply because there aren't any but you can fly a VOR approach with the bearing pointer on the G1000.
How long did it take to do the course?
The average for CPL, MEP and ME-IR is 2 months but if the weather is good and you really push it can be done in as little as 6 weeks.
Anything else worth mentioning?
You get what you pay for and with this I mean that you have to study yourself. They give you all the resources you need and the instructors answer your questions.
Very positive.
A/c availability?
They are maintained in-house and instructors do a good job at making sure you will fly. Of course, you always have to account for unforeseen events.
Instructor availability?
Most of the instructors are full-time instructors and it's not unheard of reaching 100 hours per month for some of them.
Quality of communication between you and staff?
In my case, it was always very good. The whole staff is very friendy.
WX situation?
It's Poland, you get all the seasons. The best period is between April and October but thunderstorms can be frequent.
How was the CPL course?
It was alright, they do a great job at IR training.
Do they prep the a/c for you before each flight or is that up to you?
What do you mean they prepare the aircraft for you? You have to prepare your flights and you also have to do a walk around and all the rest associated with your flying task.
What about the IR, good SOPs, briefing, much time spent on autopilot, what sort of approaches do they teach?
Top notch quality in my opinion. You won't do NDB approaches simply because there aren't any but you can fly a VOR approach with the bearing pointer on the G1000.
How long did it take to do the course?
The average for CPL, MEP and ME-IR is 2 months but if the weather is good and you really push it can be done in as little as 6 weeks.
Anything else worth mentioning?
You get what you pay for and with this I mean that you have to study yourself. They give you all the resources you need and the instructors answer your questions.
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Many thanks Banana Joe!
What I mean about a/c prep; I've heard at some schools the walk around, M&B, preflight etc is done by the instructor, I don't think this gives you much opportunity to practice.
What I mean about a/c prep; I've heard at some schools the walk around, M&B, preflight etc is done by the instructor, I don't think this gives you much opportunity to practice.
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No, all the preparation is on you and before every training flight the instructor has to check your preparation work. It's the same for hour building flights otherwise you won't be signed off for that particular flight.
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Nobody knows the answer to that, nobody even knows for sure when Brexit will happen, if ever. Although I would be willing to bet that the UK will stay within EASA in some shape of form.
Also, are there anymore Bartolini students out there that can provide feedback????
Also, are there anymore Bartolini students out there that can provide feedback????
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Hi there,
I was there last year - got there is April and was there for 12 weeks. That is a little longer than normal as we had some pretty bad weather during April and May (the last of the winter snow fell mid May!!). that was unusual - apparently it was some of the worst April flying on the schools record and even my local hosts (i stayed in an AirBnB apartment with a local family) said the weather that year had been particularly bad. However, in 12 weeks i did CPL, IR ME and about 30 hours of hour building - not bad i think!!
Your overall thoughts about the school?
Overall the school was good. The grand majority of the instructors really want to get the best out of you and they work to ensure that you finish within your timescales. There were a few of us that didnt have as long as me off work and the school worked with them to ensure they finished on time. The IR training was particularly good - i trained with Adam one of the owners - and it is clear he is proud of this school and their accomplishments and wants the school to produce good quality pilots. I think some people in western Europe have this image of because it is in Poland its all a bit slap-dash..... well i would disagree with that - overall its professional and they dont cut corners when it comes to the aircraft or flight planning.
A/c availability?
Had no problems at all - and that includes booking a single for nearly 30 hours of hour building. If you have some hour building to do their though be prepared to get some early or late flights in!
Instructor availability?
Overall good. there were a few moments when it felt like things were going slowly and that i was worried i was going to be there for ever! But to be honest it was all in my head and they had it all covered. Ultimately they want you finished as much as you want to be finished as the more people they have their at the same time the more difficult it becomes to make sure there is aircraft availability to meet their commitments
Quality of communication between you and staff?
It was good - they are people and you can call them and chat or meet them at the school. They also have really nice people working in the background dealing with the admin and so if you have any issues getting anyone speak to them and they will help get you in contact.
WX situation?
As i said above we had a lot of non-VFR days in April and then into May. It then cleared up and from then the flying happened really fast! It was damn good experience though and i definitely flew on a few days where i pushed my boundaries from what i had done in hour building...... all safe and all OK and it was a good way to slowly but surely push your experience.
How was the CPL course?
Enjoyable - some of my favorite flights ever was on that course with an instructor called Tak. You will fly higher then ever before and do low passes at big international airports! So the flying is great fun and great experience. However the learning curve is steep. Planning these flights takes a LONG time - they really want meticulous planning!! Also, how you fly them has to be professional - this is a professional course after all - so be prepared to get a lot of mistakes pointed out to you!!! My VRF flying before hand and after is totally different and how i manage the cockpit came on leaps and bounds. Every flight i learnt a lot!
Do they prep the a/c for you before each flight or is that up to you?
All up to you - the only thing you cant do is fuel the aircraft without an instructor present. But you will be expected to do all the walk around, add oil etc... yourself.
What about the IR, good SOPs, briefing, much time spent on autopilot, what sort of approaches do they teach?
The IR theory is very indepth and the tests they need you to pass are quite challenging. I think the SOPs were good but to be honest i have nothing to compare them to - but they were clear and you could operate the aircraft safely if you flew in accordance with them. As has been mentioned you will fly ILS, VOR DME approaches, circle to lands etc... but there are no NDBs in Poland so you can only fly them by cheating (setting up just the pointer needle on the VOR and then it essentially works the same). You will do a load of NDB approaches in the sim though!
With regards to autopilot its kinda up to you. When you first start the IR it will have been a while since you flew the twin as the MEP is 1 of the first things you do. As such i mentioned to the instructor on my first IR lesson that i didnt think i yet at the feel of the aircraft..... he said no problem - today will will get you happy hand flying the aircraft with the SID and then some ILS approaches..... flew it all without any automatics and sure enough, by the end of the lesson i had the feel and was far more comfortable. Then as the IR progressed we used the automatics more to allow me time to think more about the IR part of the flying. By the end of the course i was really comfortable hand flying it or using the AP in IMC.
The briefings were adequate - some quite short admittedly.... but you really have a good idea of what to do in the IR as you have done so much time in the SIM.
How long did it take to do the course?
12 weeks with 30 hours hour building
Anything else worth mentioning?
Is Bartolini perfect - no its not. Its run by humans afterall! Please show me a perfect school where everyone is happy about everything!! I did a bit of PPL training at an EASA school in Florida and whilst the instructors there were good, the difference in how the business treated you is night and day! In Florida you were a walking cash cow to be exploited for every cent they could get. In Poland they tried their hardest to make sure that they delivered what they say - a training course on time and for the price you were quoted - I actually came in 180 euroes under the price and that difference was in my account within 3 days!
I think if money is no object there may be better schools than bartolini - i would say L3 for example, especially considering their links to the airlines..... However, if i was given the same choice again i would make the same decision and go to Bartolini - the aircraft were brand spanking new, i got finished within my timescales, i finished on budget, had a great time and met some what will be life long friends.
Where did you stay and how did you travel to/from there school?
I found a place on AirBnB - it was a great experience as i stayed with a lovely Polish family so got to experience lots of different food and their culture. Plus had a HUGE room, with access to a lovely little garden and was made an awesome breakfast every morning! It was close to the school (i would cycle to school and back) but was a little further out form the city..... you could easily get a bus for about 20p or an uber for about £2!
A lot of my mates stayed in the student accommodations in the city - a place called Salsa and another called Politecknika (definitely not the right spelling!!!). They were nice big rooms and much closer to the city but further from the school than i was. I preferred where i stayed as i got to be part of a Polish family for 12 weeks which was an awesome experience plus my room was far bigger!!
As you can see - i am overall very satisfied with my choice. Also, so far 70% of the guys in my course now have airline jobs! I also know of lots who are flying for airlines who were on different course start dates to me. I think their reputation is building and their students are getting jobs and ultimately, that surey is the most important thing!!
Good luck with whatever you decide :-)
I was there last year - got there is April and was there for 12 weeks. That is a little longer than normal as we had some pretty bad weather during April and May (the last of the winter snow fell mid May!!). that was unusual - apparently it was some of the worst April flying on the schools record and even my local hosts (i stayed in an AirBnB apartment with a local family) said the weather that year had been particularly bad. However, in 12 weeks i did CPL, IR ME and about 30 hours of hour building - not bad i think!!
Your overall thoughts about the school?
Overall the school was good. The grand majority of the instructors really want to get the best out of you and they work to ensure that you finish within your timescales. There were a few of us that didnt have as long as me off work and the school worked with them to ensure they finished on time. The IR training was particularly good - i trained with Adam one of the owners - and it is clear he is proud of this school and their accomplishments and wants the school to produce good quality pilots. I think some people in western Europe have this image of because it is in Poland its all a bit slap-dash..... well i would disagree with that - overall its professional and they dont cut corners when it comes to the aircraft or flight planning.
A/c availability?
Had no problems at all - and that includes booking a single for nearly 30 hours of hour building. If you have some hour building to do their though be prepared to get some early or late flights in!
Instructor availability?
Overall good. there were a few moments when it felt like things were going slowly and that i was worried i was going to be there for ever! But to be honest it was all in my head and they had it all covered. Ultimately they want you finished as much as you want to be finished as the more people they have their at the same time the more difficult it becomes to make sure there is aircraft availability to meet their commitments
Quality of communication between you and staff?
It was good - they are people and you can call them and chat or meet them at the school. They also have really nice people working in the background dealing with the admin and so if you have any issues getting anyone speak to them and they will help get you in contact.
WX situation?
As i said above we had a lot of non-VFR days in April and then into May. It then cleared up and from then the flying happened really fast! It was damn good experience though and i definitely flew on a few days where i pushed my boundaries from what i had done in hour building...... all safe and all OK and it was a good way to slowly but surely push your experience.
How was the CPL course?
Enjoyable - some of my favorite flights ever was on that course with an instructor called Tak. You will fly higher then ever before and do low passes at big international airports! So the flying is great fun and great experience. However the learning curve is steep. Planning these flights takes a LONG time - they really want meticulous planning!! Also, how you fly them has to be professional - this is a professional course after all - so be prepared to get a lot of mistakes pointed out to you!!! My VRF flying before hand and after is totally different and how i manage the cockpit came on leaps and bounds. Every flight i learnt a lot!
Do they prep the a/c for you before each flight or is that up to you?
All up to you - the only thing you cant do is fuel the aircraft without an instructor present. But you will be expected to do all the walk around, add oil etc... yourself.
What about the IR, good SOPs, briefing, much time spent on autopilot, what sort of approaches do they teach?
The IR theory is very indepth and the tests they need you to pass are quite challenging. I think the SOPs were good but to be honest i have nothing to compare them to - but they were clear and you could operate the aircraft safely if you flew in accordance with them. As has been mentioned you will fly ILS, VOR DME approaches, circle to lands etc... but there are no NDBs in Poland so you can only fly them by cheating (setting up just the pointer needle on the VOR and then it essentially works the same). You will do a load of NDB approaches in the sim though!
With regards to autopilot its kinda up to you. When you first start the IR it will have been a while since you flew the twin as the MEP is 1 of the first things you do. As such i mentioned to the instructor on my first IR lesson that i didnt think i yet at the feel of the aircraft..... he said no problem - today will will get you happy hand flying the aircraft with the SID and then some ILS approaches..... flew it all without any automatics and sure enough, by the end of the lesson i had the feel and was far more comfortable. Then as the IR progressed we used the automatics more to allow me time to think more about the IR part of the flying. By the end of the course i was really comfortable hand flying it or using the AP in IMC.
The briefings were adequate - some quite short admittedly.... but you really have a good idea of what to do in the IR as you have done so much time in the SIM.
How long did it take to do the course?
12 weeks with 30 hours hour building
Anything else worth mentioning?
Is Bartolini perfect - no its not. Its run by humans afterall! Please show me a perfect school where everyone is happy about everything!! I did a bit of PPL training at an EASA school in Florida and whilst the instructors there were good, the difference in how the business treated you is night and day! In Florida you were a walking cash cow to be exploited for every cent they could get. In Poland they tried their hardest to make sure that they delivered what they say - a training course on time and for the price you were quoted - I actually came in 180 euroes under the price and that difference was in my account within 3 days!
I think if money is no object there may be better schools than bartolini - i would say L3 for example, especially considering their links to the airlines..... However, if i was given the same choice again i would make the same decision and go to Bartolini - the aircraft were brand spanking new, i got finished within my timescales, i finished on budget, had a great time and met some what will be life long friends.
Where did you stay and how did you travel to/from there school?
I found a place on AirBnB - it was a great experience as i stayed with a lovely Polish family so got to experience lots of different food and their culture. Plus had a HUGE room, with access to a lovely little garden and was made an awesome breakfast every morning! It was close to the school (i would cycle to school and back) but was a little further out form the city..... you could easily get a bus for about 20p or an uber for about £2!
A lot of my mates stayed in the student accommodations in the city - a place called Salsa and another called Politecknika (definitely not the right spelling!!!). They were nice big rooms and much closer to the city but further from the school than i was. I preferred where i stayed as i got to be part of a Polish family for 12 weeks which was an awesome experience plus my room was far bigger!!
As you can see - i am overall very satisfied with my choice. Also, so far 70% of the guys in my course now have airline jobs! I also know of lots who are flying for airlines who were on different course start dates to me. I think their reputation is building and their students are getting jobs and ultimately, that surey is the most important thing!!
Good luck with whatever you decide :-)
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1 more thing - i am from the UK and despite doing the training in Poland, they get a UK CAA examiner in for you so its done under UK CAA (there is no cost involved in this by the way!!)....... as such i have a license issued by the UK CAA....... It is obviously though an EASA license as it would be if you did the training in the UK.
So as far a brexit is concerned it makes no difference if you do the training there or in the UK (assuming its done before it all changes anyway) - you will end up with an EASA license issued by the UK CAA....... unless of course you would like one issued by another state and then that can be arranged.
After brexit who knows - there is no clarity around that at the moment.
So as far a brexit is concerned it makes no difference if you do the training there or in the UK (assuming its done before it all changes anyway) - you will end up with an EASA license issued by the UK CAA....... unless of course you would like one issued by another state and then that can be arranged.
After brexit who knows - there is no clarity around that at the moment.
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Hi itchybumba, that is fantastic feedback. Thanks very much for taking the time to write all that.
From what you say it sounds good. I can see why they have a long waiting list. I won't have any hours to build if I go there, so I'm sure we can get it completed in the 10 week timeframe.
From what you say it sounds good. I can see why they have a long waiting list. I won't have any hours to build if I go there, so I'm sure we can get it completed in the 10 week timeframe.
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Most work in Ryanair, quite a reasonable chunk in Adria thanks to the partnership between Adria and Bartolini Air. A few joined other operators like TUI, Thomas Cook (via Wings Alliance), Titan and other regional operators.
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^ So how do 200hr newbies (from Bartolini and other schools) join Titan when every single pilot job advert I have seen from them request a thousand+ hours TT and often a relevant current type rating with hours on type ("or you will NOT be considered")
Do Bartolini etc. have links with them or. . ?
Do Bartolini etc. have links with them or. . ?
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^ So how do 200hr newbies (from Bartolini and other schools) join Titan when every single pilot job advert I have seen from them request a thousand+ hours TT and often a relevant current type rating with hours on type ("or you will NOT be considered")
Do Bartolini etc. have links with them or. . ?
Do Bartolini etc. have links with them or. . ?
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I am very pleased to report it is now 86% of people have got jobs from my group :-)
As mentioned above in my group all the jobs are in Ryanair and jet 2 but a lot also go to Adria and the other airlines mentioned above.
As mentioned above in my group all the jobs are in Ryanair and jet 2 but a lot also go to Adria and the other airlines mentioned above.
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I really do apologise if this sounds trivial but it's more of a concern for my parents rather than myself. How's the society in Lodz? Especially regarding race? I'm of African descent, How safe is the city for a man like me to be roaming the streets alone of Lodz? Am I suspect to difficult situations? It's not Poland's main City. thanks
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I had a look around Bartolini Air last week and was quite impressed to be honest.
For Lodz, some parts at night can make you feel a bit on edge but other than that, the main street is beautiful and I felt fairly safe during the day.
Perhaps you should visit Lodz, JayDotbe, if this really is a factor when choosing a school. You might be surprised if you have not been to Eastern Europe before.
For Lodz, some parts at night can make you feel a bit on edge but other than that, the main street is beautiful and I felt fairly safe during the day.
Perhaps you should visit Lodz, JayDotbe, if this really is a factor when choosing a school. You might be surprised if you have not been to Eastern Europe before.
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I would like to get some recent feedback for this school. I know its very popular and gets good results, however getting feedback is like getting blood from a stone.
Could any current or recent students give some feedback for myself and others who are considering going there. If you can, please answer the following;
I'm looking feedback for the modular MEP MEIR CPL NOT the 0 to fATPL course.
Many thanks for any info, if you don't want to post here please pm.
Could any current or recent students give some feedback for myself and others who are considering going there. If you can, please answer the following;
I'm looking feedback for the modular MEP MEIR CPL NOT the 0 to fATPL course.
Many thanks for any info, if you don't want to post here please pm.
Fair, probably one of the best in Europe for the under 20k budget
A/c availability?
In my situation it could have been much better. they sold a twin during our training, another broke down, leaving 15 students (2 groups) with one twin that was flying continiously with, as consequence, short times between maintenance. We ended up not having a twin available during the few days od above minima weather, and delaying our training. appareantely for the income of students they have at the moment they need 4 twins more r less, at least to keep the 8 weeks goal realistic.
If you still have the old contract with the 2002 be prepare to struggle to fly the cpl module since a lot of hour builders use the 02. If you have the new contract with the 2008 you won't have problems.
Instructor availability?
Almost always available but you really have to run after them. If you don't ask you don't fly, somebody else will in your place. I didn't expect that, but once you know it you'll fly regularly.
Quality of communication between you and staff?
Ground staff is very helpful, some polish instructors have poor English, but overall I have to say good, even if we randomly discovered they sold one plane from one of the instructors...
Anyway if you have any problem, talk with Joanna.
WX situation?
You're in Poland, so make your conclusions. I was there probably in the worst period and it took 13 weeks to complete the cpl-ir-mep, and going to school every day, some of my colleagues took 16 weeks. Appareantly in summer it's good. From September to March expect one month delay on the 8 week goal.
Big issue for cpl is vfr conditions, and for the ir freezing level. Most of the time it lays on the ground in Autumn-winter, flying is up to the instructor because Tecnams don't have any anti/de-icing system. Flying in clouds is not ideal with -5 on the ground and overcast at 1000ft.
How was the CPL course?
Good, but do not expect incredible advices from the instructors. Plan as goog as you can, and also prepare some questions in prevision of the single flights and also the skill test.
The good thing is that VFR flying in Poland request some skills (unless you just go around looking at the garmin as a lot of people do......), so a good planning is very important.
Try to give your best, because it goes fast. The twin part of the CPL was my favourite, great fun.
If in winter get rid of the cpl module asap (vfr conditions are rare).
A lot of paperwork to print and some tricky airspaces but nothing undoable.
Do they prep the a/c for you before each flight or is that up to you?
Depends, usually you have to refuel, but also with preflight checks doesn't take more than 20 mins to strartup.
What about the IR, good SOPs, briefing, much time spent on autopilot, what sort of approaches do they teach?
How long did it take to do the course?
IR is good, they're one of the first schools in Europe to provide also pbn training and rating. Tho my instructor was not that helpful, if I didn't ask anything we would have flown without even talking. Prepare questions, learn as good as you can the sops, train on the sim they have at school and it will be helpful. Honestly flying rnav is doable even by a monkey, but making it useful for your future is up to you.
Sops are well made (especially for the twin), you will do: rnav - lnav- ils- ndb- vor approaches. EPLL is the perfect place where to do it, a few (still some) commercial traffics, professional controllers and no big delays or holdings. In two hours you could easily do more than 5 approaches.
For the sim do not argue with Bogdan. he's a good guy, if you fair, he fair, if you wanna argue, it's over. Nice that during sim training you do some demanding approaches (Klagenfurt, Wien, Geneva, ecc..).
Adam and Bartek are very good instructors but not so available because they fly on the company's Citation (as some other instructors..).
It took me 13 weeks to finish my cpl-ir-mep.
Anything else worth mentioning?
Again, be prepared to do most of the job alone, or with your course mates. Instructors want to fly as much as they can, but briefings are rare, and you're supposed to know sops and theory even if you never talked about it before with your instructor. For less than 20k I think you cannot ask for more honestly, but with the structure they have at the moment they cannot ask for much more. If they raise the price even more consider Diamond.
Another thing: I do not want to sound too negative in my feedback, but some things were not working really well. What I have to say in their defense is that they're transferring the school to the old airport terminal and also expanding the school. But when I was there it was sometimes not clear if they were a fying school, an executive airline or a tecnam dealer. If I could give them an advice is not to expand too fast, focus on what they think is the most important business for them (hopefully the school, even if it should not be just business..) and not to think they will always be able to manage borderline situations as they did sometimes, because sometimes studens do feel a bit alone, and they share their thoughts within each other, and this is no good for the school reputation. I hope it will get better in this year, because honestly, sometimes they were a bit messy.
Where did you stay and how did you travel to/from there school?
I was staying at an airbnb and there are plenty of them in lodz. Basecamp and salsa were full and honestly, a bit expensive as well.
Lodz is nice honestly, especially in summer-spring. If in winter you'll start to feel a bit depressed after 3 months, don't worry it's normal.
?
