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ATPL Studies

Old 26th Apr 2018, 05:48
  #1 (permalink)  
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ATPL Studies

Well not long into my studies modular ATPL (A) studies and think I have made a mistake these are borderline impossible for someone who cant seem to remember anything.

Keep taking the progress test but barely getting over 50% most time its in the 40's. Read the material and heard it's not advised to keep re-reading so been watching the corresponding oxford videos on Youtube. Also trying Anki for flash cards and reviewing them daily but nothing seems to work.

I am starting to think that you need a bit more intelligence then I actually have to be able to do these exams? It scary as I'm only on the first part of GNAV and not into the hard stuff yet I bet.

Been reading books on learning and all saying about the testing effect and how its best form of learning but think it just makes me spiral down and down and doesn't seem to help. Books also suggest flashcards which I can see value in but you have to be consistent with them.

Also, how do people manage time? Do people do 2 or 3 hours or just space it out in smaller chunks?

Please can anyone offer any advise?
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 08:43
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Is it just GNAV you are having issues with? This subject has always been a pain in the neck for many and maybe you will get better progress with other subjects. It might also be the case you are better suited to a residential course despite the increased costs.

I never had problems in studying the ATPL subjects but I remember GNAV was the subject I was the most scared of and I supplemented my studies with Cat3C videos on YouTube and their iBooks. The explanations are brilliant and made the subject crystal clear to me: as long as you remember you have 180 degrees in a triangle and 360 in a circle and learn how to make a quick sketch of the task you can easily do it. If I did it with a 93% mark, so can you. And I have always been terrible at maths and never studied trigonometry at school (this is a big one!).

Last edited by Banana Joe; 26th Apr 2018 at 10:40.
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 12:30
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Put the books down and hit the banks, I wasted so much time with books at the beginning and like you not making much progress on my percentages

My method is to get through the subject as quickly as possible on the bank and take notes to answer the questions and learn some theory, the second time around it will be easier than before and you will start remembering more stuff

Flag all the questions you keep getting wrong or don't fully understand the theory behind and keep practising them and studying the theory behind them, it is a long process but as long as you know the theory behind the banks you should be fine on the exams as the new questions that appear in the exams are based off of the same theory

You have to force yourself to study the long hours, get plenty of exercise as this really helps believe me, I jog twice a day between studies and it really helps to keep my mind fresh for studies compared to when I don't exercise

If you can average 90% in the bank and 90% of that theory you can pass the exams

I read through the books once very fast then study exclusively on the banks and I will occasionally look at the books again if I don't understand something but generally on Aviation Exam you have 90% of the material you need to understand the subjects and the comments section really clears up a lot of uncertainties for the questions

I can't recommend Aviation Exam enough as a study aid for the questions
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 15:21
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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What they said^^ . If you try to learn the books you'll find it impossible. Learn the question banks, then by all means read the books to further your understanding.
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 22:44
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The Cat3c youtube video's were fantastic.
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Old 27th Apr 2018, 11:13
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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This is a tricky one, but I would say it's totally normal, I can assume you are only a few weeks maybe into your studies. I imagine all these subjects are new, daunting and seem impossible. I have felt exactly the same. I started with pof and GNav, they are two of the heaviest subjects in material, volume and understanding. I spent 6 weeks in each doing about 9 hours a week to get 50%, and I went to a selective grammar school, so don't worry, it's not lack of intelligence. The volume is simply too huge to fully understand in such short periods, to even try is foolish. And some of the questions are written simply to catch you out, not to test your knowledge. In short, they are a frustrating mess of poorly worded questions that make assumptions and use tiny wording differences to catch you out, hence your scores.

Recently a tactic I have found to be generating much better scores much faster is to read the topics thoroughly, and research anything that isn't clear, as stated via YouTube or the web, do the progress tests as desired, make no notes.

Use the BGS or other bank and use the sub topics inside the topic to focus on each section. I've been doing 40 questions or so across three hours and then making the notes as required, especially formulae and definitions etc. That way your learning is far more focused and ordered, in the material it is simply impossible to know what is essential and what isnt, after all there's only so many ways they can ask you how far away one latitude is to another or what track the aircraft is using.

For reference I'm now doing 12 hours in 4 days, 4 days at work where I may do another three hours if I can, and then 12 hours in 4 days. I've scheduled 18 months from start of revision to end of last exam. Until the brush up week at the beginning of June where I will possibly step up the revision if I can see what I don't understand until the exams in August.

After that it's simply a matter of playing their game and learning what the question is asking.

Keep at it, they are a rollercoaster of emotions and often feel like being kicked when you are down. It simply appears a matter of putting the hours in rather than any significantly difficult principles. Practice practice practice, but focus that practice.
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Old 27th Apr 2018, 19:48
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Well firstly its partly down to you, I found GNAV easy because I like maths, when I did GNAV I walked out of the exam 30 minutes early and got 91%. Whereas I am a pretty lazy reader and don't have such an analytical mind so I kinda suck at other subjects like HPL where I needed nearly the full hour and only got 79%.

However, its what everyone else has said, you can't pass these exam if you don't use the QB. If you are sitting your exams under the UK CAA, then I recommend you use the BGS bank.

Don't worry about the progress tests too much, just get them done and get into the QB ASAP. When you first go through the CBT course you don't really know which bits of theory you really need to know until you start the QB and can see which topics are really being tested. Once you've done a few mock exams you can then go back to the CBT/books and recap those topics you struggle with.

Also, make sure you check the ATP forum for the latest feedback so you can spot any new questions or topics you should read up on. The feedback will also give you an idea of the questions that have come up most frequently in recent exam sittings.

Don't worry, you can do it! I remember when I first started the CBT, I was also discouraged by my progress test results. I also remember my first mock exam on the QB was rubbish too. Don't worry though, keep working hard and you will get there!
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 00:08
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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Originally Posted by Negan View Post
Put the books down and hit the banks, I wasted so much time with books at the beginning and like you not making much progress on my percentages

My method is to get through the subject as quickly as possible on the bank and take notes to answer the questions and learn some theory, the second time around it will be easier than before and you will start remembering more stuff

Flag all the questions you keep getting wrong or don't fully understand the theory behind and keep practising them and studying the theory behind them, it is a long process but as long as you know the theory behind the banks you should be fine on the exams as the new questions that appear in the exams are based off of the same theory

You have to force yourself to study the long hours, get plenty of exercise as this really helps believe me, I jog twice a day between studies and it really helps to keep my mind fresh for studies compared to when I don't exercise

If you can average 90% in the bank and 90% of that theory you can pass the exams

I read through the books once very fast then study exclusively on the banks and I will occasionally look at the books again if I don't understand something but generally on Aviation Exam you have 90% of the material you need to understand the subjects and the comments section really clears up a lot of uncertainties for the questions

I can't recommend Aviation Exam enough as a study aid for the questions
'' I jog twice a day between studies and it really helps to keep my mind fresh for studies compared to when I don't exercise ''

does that include using av exam in the offline mode whilst jogging..lol

i must remember to jog next week..lol
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 00:10
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
What they said^^ . If you try to learn the books you'll find it impossible. Learn the question banks, then by all means read the books to further your understanding.
People like you are the answers to my prayers and the light to the darkness of the tunnel called ATPLs..lol

Cant wait to look back at my ATPLs once im done , i look forward to the naked dance around the bonfire when im burning the 14 ATPL BOOKS..lol
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 11:41
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Originally Posted by ZeroFuelMass View Post
Hit the question banks as much as you can as often as you can, as long as you can....using AE definitely helped my life, I was mainly studying there and what was not yet clear back to books and/or online, but focus on the main principles do not get swamped in minor details...passed all 14 first time with high marks.

Good luck !

hi bud sent you a Dm
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 08:49
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Originally Posted by r10bbr View Post
People like you are the answers to my prayers and the light to the darkness of the tunnel called ATPLs..lol

Cant wait to look back at my ATPLs once im done , i look forward to the naked dance around the bonfire when im burning the 14 ATPL BOOKS..lol
Good luck in a technical interview.
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 10:33
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Whilst it does take a significant amount of effort to successfully complete the EASA exams, what junior birdmen tend to forget is that having been issued with a CPL/IR comes the tricky business of gaining employment.
Clearly the more impressive results achieved in the exams and flying tests the better.

However the interview will be more than just a cosy chat. Not only will the "beer test" appear as an underarm test, but exploring your technical knowledge will sort out the sheep from the goats. Don't think for one moment you can simply dump the wealth aviation knowledge gained.
A measure of understanding is essential, which is not gained by simply concentrating on QBs.
Can you think outside the box? If not, why not ?
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 17:27
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All good points. Right now your focus is obviously on passing the exams, but be prepared for the fact that you are going to be learning for the rest of your career.
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 19:40
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Originally Posted by Capt Pit Bull View Post
Good luck in a technical interview.

when your part of the MPL programme of one of these middle eastern airways and a citizen , there's no interviews needed/ no such thing as a technical interview just a cosy chat if that but the rest follows as having mint tea and some nargila

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Old 30th Apr 2018, 21:34
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Originally Posted by r10bbr View Post
when your part of the MPL programme of one of these middle eastern airways and a citizen , there's no interviews needed/ no such thing as a technical interview just a cosy chat if that but the rest follows as having mint tea and some nargila

Just incredible. Name your employer so I know not to fly on their network please.
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 21:38
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Ryanair....
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 21:54
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Originally Posted by r10bbr View Post
when your part of the MPL programme of one of these middle eastern airways and a citizen , there's no interviews needed/ no such thing as a technical interview just a cosy chat if that but the rest follows as having mint tea and some nargila

Being honest with you r10bbr, whilst I'll give you that many parts of the theory are not the most relevant, if you think you're gonna pass the exams then you can relax for the rest of your pilot life you're in for a major surprise. Especially if you're studying modular or untagged. You will need to demonstrate superior technical knowledge at any interview you come across, and no they are not light cosy chats. Perhaps at the beginning, but they will get down to business with you pretty quick. They have desks full of thousands of CVs and no shortage of people with adequate technical knowledge, why should they pick someone who has below average knowledge and also no desire to want to improve on this knowledge.

There are no known assessments within the UK or the rest of Europe that don't require you demonstrate technical knowledge. Theoretical knowledge is not only beneficial for the knowledge in itself, but it also demonstrates that you have at least average intelligence if you can learn and understand lots of it.

I heavily suggest you pull your socks up and take a good dose of reality if you are serious about becoming a pilot and not someone with just a sheet of paper stating they've done some exams.

EDIT: I've just read you seem to think you're already in a position to write ryanair down as your employer. This is a disastrous error of judgment on your behalf, sir. You will not last 5 minutes in an interview with them if what you've written on here is anything to go by. A major part of their interview is technical knowledge alone.

I wish you luck.
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 22:00
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i never said about relaxing afterwards as i know its a continuous study cycle even when renewing the type rating...
i also never stated that my family own one of the largest middle eastern carriers #RYANAIR

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Old 30th Apr 2018, 22:08
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Originally Posted by r10bbr View Post
i never said about relaxing afterwards as i know its a continuous study cycle even when renewing the type rating...
i also never stated that my family own one of the largest middle eastern carriers #RYANAIR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYwMZs6eSqo
Talking of dancing around a bonfire after some exams suggests you think it's all over with. You will be required to possess superior knowledge about any aircraft you fly and its procedures for your entire life though. How long will this bonfire dance last for?

As for the video, I'm sorry sir but you have me lost. You need to change a lot if you want to pass those exams. I'm saying this for your own benefit. I get the feeling that unless you implement some major changes within yourself you're not going to succeed, and that really is not nice.
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Old 30th Apr 2018, 22:14
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Originally Posted by momo95 View Post
Talking of dancing around a bonfire after some exams suggests you think it's all over with. You will be required to possess superior knowledge about any aircraft you fly and its procedures for your entire life though. How long will this bonfire dance last for?

As for the video, I'm sorry sir but you have me lost. You need to change a lot if you want to pass those exams. I'm saying this for your own benefit. I get the feeling that unless you implement some major changes within yourself you're not going to succeed, and that really is not nice.

As of today i have passed all 14 exams, friday was my last exam ...
momo, do you want to join me at the bonfire dance whilst we sit and drink mint tea and smoke some nargila..
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