EASA ATPL Changing Question style
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I don't think they can stop your career before it even begins. One of my instructor had 7 fails, he is now flying for his national carrier. And I reckon he was a very good instructor. Another one failed meteorology three times, yet he got called to several interviews and now he is an A320 first officer (didn't have to pay for his TR). A friend of mine failed M&B, then retook it and got 100%, yet it's still a fail. He is now flying the 737.
I reckon that these exams, as much of a pain in the neck they can be, do not determine whether you will have a career as a pilot or not.
I reckon that these exams, as much of a pain in the neck they can be, do not determine whether you will have a career as a pilot or not.
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I think that is true based on what method of training you are under.
For those on an airline cadet programme they need to pass the exams within a set time period and often stipulating a specific grade to be achieved. Numerous retakes, using up all your CAA sessions and having to go back from scratch will see you be dropped.
For those going modular, I would imagine it is a lot less of a "be all and end all" exercise.
For those on an airline cadet programme they need to pass the exams within a set time period and often stipulating a specific grade to be achieved. Numerous retakes, using up all your CAA sessions and having to go back from scratch will see you be dropped.
For those going modular, I would imagine it is a lot less of a "be all and end all" exercise.
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I wonder how many of you "in my day" folk would actually pass the current ATPL exams with a high score?
Most significant difference for me was the use of electronic tests and mock exams; never had this tool for any of the previous exams I'd taken and it streamlined (turned on it's head in fact) the learning process in my view. I can see now why the fundamental knowledge of many entry-level F/O's is so weak - you simply don't need to know much to pass the exams with the benefit of pretty accurate question banks (although it really helps in most cases in terms of picking out the right option).
Despite the anecdotal evidence that appears to support the opposite, airline training departments really do identify a correlation between successful theoretical knowledge attempts in much the same way as first series passes in CPL and IR Skill Tests act as an indicator of future success or potential training risk. I'd say that based on experience of the current system, admitting that someone had failed multiple exams in a series would be nothing to be proud of and I can well see why a change is necessary after all, we're not talking about driving a Toyota Prius with a couple of punters in the back but managing and for short periods of time, actually flying a heavy, complex piece of high performance machinery at speeds not far shy of the supersonic envelope with tens to potentially hundreds of passengers. It's not rocket science but airline flying is still (just) an occupation that demands some skill, attention and professionalism.
Last edited by Reverserbucket; 3rd Jul 2017 at 16:00.
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Hello,
The most difficult thing for me is the time & number of sessions.
Why can't they let you do one exam at a time? Even if they reduce the failing opportunities to 1.
As a modular-distance student with a 40h/week job, the worst it's to have to sit with 4-5 subjects. And the fact that when you do it, you have 18 months to complete the rest.
I think the whole system is designed for people who has the money (without working) to do it the integrated way.
The most difficult thing for me is the time & number of sessions.
Why can't they let you do one exam at a time? Even if they reduce the failing opportunities to 1.
As a modular-distance student with a 40h/week job, the worst it's to have to sit with 4-5 subjects. And the fact that when you do it, you have 18 months to complete the rest.
I think the whole system is designed for people who has the money (without working) to do it the integrated way.
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Simply because other parts of the transport industry use 2 - train drivers, for example. We should be at least as strict. The 6 sittings should also be 4. The reason for not doing one at a time is retention. You can't just learn and dump each subject because it all pops up again in other subjects.
I guess there is also an element of motivation (I'm sure you are BTW) - other people with kids and jobs do it in 6 months.
I guess there is also an element of motivation (I'm sure you are BTW) - other people with kids and jobs do it in 6 months.
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Precisely. Nearly fell asleep today whilst my instructor was talking about some DC magneto carry on to do with engine ignition. I asked him which aircraft we will fly uses these systems, he said I'll be lucky to come across it in a museum.
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Hello,
The most difficult thing for me is the time & number of sessions.
Why can't they let you do one exam at a time? Even if they reduce the failing opportunities to 1.
As a modular-distance student with a 40h/week job, the worst it's to have to sit with 4-5 subjects. And the fact that when you do it, you have 18 months to complete the rest.
I think the whole system is designed for people who has the money (without working) to do it the integrated way.
The most difficult thing for me is the time & number of sessions.
Why can't they let you do one exam at a time? Even if they reduce the failing opportunities to 1.
As a modular-distance student with a 40h/week job, the worst it's to have to sit with 4-5 subjects. And the fact that when you do it, you have 18 months to complete the rest.
I think the whole system is designed for people who has the money (without working) to do it the integrated way.
I have a 37h/week job and still managed to pass all 14 subjects within 6 months, 14 first passes, average above 90% (95 IIRC)
By the way, I wonder how a potential recruiter would view that :
Would he believe since I was so fast it means I didn't have enough time to learn to an above-average level ?
Or on the contrary would he believe I'm a super smart learner ?
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Congratulations. Can you tell us your study method and how many hours a week did you study please?
I have been studying for three weeks and i have only finished HP and i am half way of air law and with an average on Aviation Exam tests of only 80%...
I have been studying for three weeks and i have only finished HP and i am half way of air law and with an average on Aviation Exam tests of only 80%...
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Nearly fell asleep today whilst my instructor was talking about some DC magneto carry on to do with engine ignition
I was told that the CEO of an airline introduced himself to a group of first day First Officers a few years ago and asked how many of them were interested in aeroplanes? A few raised their hands likely imagining he was asking if they were plane spotters, to which he responded that having gone through the process of ground school, practical training and testing, they should all be interested and that if they wanted to come back for the second day of induction training, they should re-think their motivations for flying. I thought that said quite a lot about the way the industry has changed in recent years.
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Reverserbucket, you were definitely told the principles of internal combustion engine when getting your driver license. Now, honestly ask yourself - does it really help you with your Audi when it suddenly lights up the CHK ENG?
In the CEO example, what he detected was that some of his potential pilots produced a quick but incorrect decision, while others preferred to wait and learn the situation better. Ironically, he blamed them. This indeed tells a lot about the industry these days...
In the CEO example, what he detected was that some of his potential pilots produced a quick but incorrect decision, while others preferred to wait and learn the situation better. Ironically, he blamed them. This indeed tells a lot about the industry these days...
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neboskreb
I knew almost nothing about internal combustion engines when I passed my driving test and received no formal training other than practical driving tuition but if I see an engine warning, I tend to pull over on the side of the road and call for a tow. I'm not paid to drive a car however but for flying, I am and when an annunciator illuminates, a troubleshooting process via the QRH and checklist procedure is most definitely aided by an understanding of the systems. As I said, much of the syllabus content is not specifically relevant but there is a lot of background information which sometimes becomes more valuable as you gain experience.
I think you've misunderstood my point concerning the motivation of the new entry intake; quite a few people spend a fortune on training with no real understanding of what the job, environment or lifestyle entails and in particular, no interest. Perhaps it's a generational thing but I meet people like this every day as well as those who have learnt the answers to pass the exams rather than attempted to understand the theory - in modern aviation, preparation is everything and the day you learn on the job may well be your last. Tot ziens!
I knew almost nothing about internal combustion engines when I passed my driving test and received no formal training other than practical driving tuition but if I see an engine warning, I tend to pull over on the side of the road and call for a tow. I'm not paid to drive a car however but for flying, I am and when an annunciator illuminates, a troubleshooting process via the QRH and checklist procedure is most definitely aided by an understanding of the systems. As I said, much of the syllabus content is not specifically relevant but there is a lot of background information which sometimes becomes more valuable as you gain experience.
I think you've misunderstood my point concerning the motivation of the new entry intake; quite a few people spend a fortune on training with no real understanding of what the job, environment or lifestyle entails and in particular, no interest. Perhaps it's a generational thing but I meet people like this every day as well as those who have learnt the answers to pass the exams rather than attempted to understand the theory - in modern aviation, preparation is everything and the day you learn on the job may well be your last. Tot ziens!
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You may not need to know how the clutch works to drive your car, but if you do know, it sure helps to save you money as well as being a better driver.
I have one student who is having difficulty precisely because his technology is way newer than that asked about in the questions. However, a lot has been added for the new LOs.
I have one student who is having difficulty precisely because his technology is way newer than that asked about in the questions. However, a lot has been added for the new LOs.
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I think we can all agree that no one is complaining that we have to learn.
It just seems ridiculous that the very questions they ask to check the LOs are often outside of the prescribed LOs. For example the LO states we must know the function principle of a thermal plug. What do EASA do? Ask the student how many thermal plugs may a wheel have ... "one" or "one or more" ... seriously?
By all means revise the stuff, but it's hypocritical to expect a higher standard on the student's behalf whilst the standard of questions are very often poor to say the least.
It just seems ridiculous that the very questions they ask to check the LOs are often outside of the prescribed LOs. For example the LO states we must know the function principle of a thermal plug. What do EASA do? Ask the student how many thermal plugs may a wheel have ... "one" or "one or more" ... seriously?
By all means revise the stuff, but it's hypocritical to expect a higher standard on the student's behalf whilst the standard of questions are very often poor to say the least.
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"one" or "one or more" ...
Alternatively, you could try the U.S.A for an examining framework that is often described as far more practical and relevant...until you take the FAA oral exam as part of a practical flight test and can't recall the minimum number of static wicks required for the aircraft to be used or the angle of dihedral of the horizontal stabiliser and then you realise that this sort of stuff is not only confined to EASA.