CTC Wings Training
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CTC Wings Training
Hi all,
I have been doing some vigorous research through the CTC wings website and trying to come to terms with the hight risk factor and actual outcome of such a course.
I have come to terms with the course fees plus type rating training. I just wanted some advice and clarity from people that have looked into this option further or have even been through this process themselves.
Firstly what are the hidden and additional costs before the training commences, I've seen the insurance fee and inspection fees etc but how much are they and when do these fees need paying? When does the entire loan need to be secured? And when does a class 1 medical need to be completed? Does this all need to be in place before the application day or before training commences if selected?
I also would like to know how easily cadets seeked employment after completion of the ATPL, and how long this process took?
I am lead to believe the course lasts approximately 18 months, and then type rating takes the additional 6 months (after appointed by a partner airline). But what my concern is, if you do not get appointed immediately, and the entire training takes over 24 months, how are you expected to pay your course fees without a job??
Sorry for the amount of questions, but how much do you typically earn straight out of flight school (I am lead to believe it is around 45,000, unless the type rating has been supported which could reduce your salary) and how soon do you receive payment? I am just concerned (as everyone is) about leaving flight school and not being able to pay the £1000+ fee before and even after I gain employment at a partner airline.
If anyone can give advice or knowledge then I would be extremely grateful for your time.
Thank you very much.
I have been doing some vigorous research through the CTC wings website and trying to come to terms with the hight risk factor and actual outcome of such a course.
I have come to terms with the course fees plus type rating training. I just wanted some advice and clarity from people that have looked into this option further or have even been through this process themselves.
Firstly what are the hidden and additional costs before the training commences, I've seen the insurance fee and inspection fees etc but how much are they and when do these fees need paying? When does the entire loan need to be secured? And when does a class 1 medical need to be completed? Does this all need to be in place before the application day or before training commences if selected?
I also would like to know how easily cadets seeked employment after completion of the ATPL, and how long this process took?
I am lead to believe the course lasts approximately 18 months, and then type rating takes the additional 6 months (after appointed by a partner airline). But what my concern is, if you do not get appointed immediately, and the entire training takes over 24 months, how are you expected to pay your course fees without a job??
Sorry for the amount of questions, but how much do you typically earn straight out of flight school (I am lead to believe it is around 45,000, unless the type rating has been supported which could reduce your salary) and how soon do you receive payment? I am just concerned (as everyone is) about leaving flight school and not being able to pay the £1000+ fee before and even after I gain employment at a partner airline.
If anyone can give advice or knowledge then I would be extremely grateful for your time.
Thank you very much.
Professional Student
With CTC Wings the odds of getting a job with an airline are pretty good, but they are still odds. The job market is fairly positive now for newbies, but who knows what will happen when you finish in two years or so? Don't bet the farm here.
Do your class one *before* you spend anything!
Do your class one *before* you spend anything!
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Firstly what are the hidden and additional costs before the training commences, I've seen the insurance fee and inspection fees etc but how much are they and when do these fees need paying? When does the entire loan need to be secured? And when does a class 1 medical need to be completed? Does this all need to be in place before the application day or before training commences if selected?
Loan arrangement fee with BBVA
Class 1 initial fee
Sustenance during training
Before training commences
I also would like to know how easily cadets seeked employment after completion of the ATPL, and how long this process took?
It is different for everyone. For some it's minutes, some stay in the hold pool for months/years. Some don't make it to the hold pool, that is rare though.
I am lead to believe the course lasts approximately 18 months, and then type rating takes the additional 6 months (after appointed by a partner airline). But what my concern is, if you do not get appointed immediately, and the entire training takes over 24 months, how are you expected to pay your course fees without a job??
That's a question a lot of CTC cadets who still don't have jobs ask themselves every day. BBVA don't care, you signed a contract that obligates you to make the agreed repayments, job or no job.
Sorry for the amount of questions, but how much do you typically earn straight out of flight school (I am lead to believe it is around 45,000, unless the type rating has been supported which could reduce your salary) and how soon do you receive payment? I am just concerned (as everyone is) about leaving flight school and not being able to pay the £1000+ fee before and even after I gain employment at a partner airline.
Flexicrew is, I'm told, 30 at the absolute most of 900 hours a year and lots of standby duties.
Flybe is low 20's I think.
Monarch and Thomas Cook haven't dipped in for a long time.
Norwegian took a handful late last year. Employed by external agency OSM.
Ryanair don't have concrete links anymore to CTC. You can apply directly to Ryanair as a modular Pilot.
Look mate, your best bet is an MPL course. QR or easyJet. QR get paid more earlier but you have to live in the sandpit.
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hobbit1983, tech log.
Thanks to both of you for your responses. There is just so much to think about when it comes to this huge debate in my mind considering the risk factor of spending that amount of money on training. To come out the other end and land directly into a job is an absolute dream and would solve all of the concerns.
Thanks again.
Thanks to both of you for your responses. There is just so much to think about when it comes to this huge debate in my mind considering the risk factor of spending that amount of money on training. To come out the other end and land directly into a job is an absolute dream and would solve all of the concerns.
Thanks again.
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How can I work out the BBVA loan repayments? I know how much the course will cost, and it states the interest rate is currently 4.1%. It also states for the first 24 months is a holiday period then the next 24 months is a reduced rate and then the last remaining 6 year pays the full amount. How can I work out the amount required to pay back during years 2-4 and 4-10?
Professional Student
sadly it's not a certainty. How badly do you want to be an airline pilot, and why?
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The risks will always be there so all you can do is try and reduce them however you can. The main two ways I would suggest are as follows:
1) Save up as much as you can before starting any course. This will both reduce your loan repayments and will also give you more time before the repayments will start (as the 2 year period starts from your first drawdown)
2) Get on an MPL scheme. The main advantage being that if you successfully complete the course, it is likely that you will start work much sooner than with a CPL/IR and then having to wait to apply for jobs and complete a type rating.
Finally have a plan/job available that you could do immediately after training that will enable you to cover your loan repayments, in the event that you have a lengthy wait before getting a flying job offer.
As mentioned BBVA will expect the money to be paid on the repayments date, whether that is through an airline job or mcdonalds.
1) Save up as much as you can before starting any course. This will both reduce your loan repayments and will also give you more time before the repayments will start (as the 2 year period starts from your first drawdown)
2) Get on an MPL scheme. The main advantage being that if you successfully complete the course, it is likely that you will start work much sooner than with a CPL/IR and then having to wait to apply for jobs and complete a type rating.
Finally have a plan/job available that you could do immediately after training that will enable you to cover your loan repayments, in the event that you have a lengthy wait before getting a flying job offer.
As mentioned BBVA will expect the money to be paid on the repayments date, whether that is through an airline job or mcdonalds.
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I'm in the exact same position as the Original poster, but I have read that an MPL course is very risky? For example, under Generation EasyJet at CAE OAA, if you were to complete an MPL and begin work for easyjet, you are stuck with them until you unfreeze your ATPL at 1500hrs, and if they have cuts and redundancies and lay you off (apparently the MPL pilots can be the first to go) then you're screwed with a useless MPL that no other airline wants and are £100,000+ in debt. Is this true?
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A source I was talking to at a big school said that this is certainly a possibility. They said that a few months ago, a couple of people on an MPL course for a well-known airline failed their final assessment and interview, before they go onto line-training and type-rating. The airline dismissed them. Supposedly they applied to every other airline possible, so see if they could transfer their MPL, to no avail. After all, what makes them different to any other applicant for a job. If this is true, then it's quite literally £100k down the swanny, with absolutely nothing to show for it. If anything, these MPL schemes are "guaranteed interviews", not "guaranteed jobs".
I think everything about flight training is a risk, but so is getting out of bed every day. If you keep your nose clean, don't fail anything, and do as your told, you will probably end-up in the right hand seat for EasyJet, and probably end-up with an ATPL in a few years.
Speaking hypothetically, if there were to be a massive downturn in air travel, I imagine the MPLs would be the first flight crew to go. Companies I used to work for always used to lay-off the apprentices and newest employees when the going got tough, so I imagine airlines will be no different.
I remember an argument between an MPL student and a self-sponsored integrated student. The MPL student claimed that if there were a financial crash, he would be safe as he has a "guaranteed job", whereas the self-sponsored would be screwed. I couldn't help but think that if there were a financial crash, both would equally be screwed!
I think everything about flight training is a risk, but so is getting out of bed every day. If you keep your nose clean, don't fail anything, and do as your told, you will probably end-up in the right hand seat for EasyJet, and probably end-up with an ATPL in a few years.
Speaking hypothetically, if there were to be a massive downturn in air travel, I imagine the MPLs would be the first flight crew to go. Companies I used to work for always used to lay-off the apprentices and newest employees when the going got tough, so I imagine airlines will be no different.
I remember an argument between an MPL student and a self-sponsored integrated student. The MPL student claimed that if there were a financial crash, he would be safe as he has a "guaranteed job", whereas the self-sponsored would be screwed. I couldn't help but think that if there were a financial crash, both would equally be screwed!
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Insurances
Loan arrangement fee with BBVA
Class 1 initial fee
Sustenance during training
Before training commences
Its not an ATPL. You can't have an ATPL until you have 1500 hours. It's a CPL/IR with an MCC certificate.
It is different for everyone. For some it's minutes, some stay in the hold pool for months/years. Some don't make it to the hold pool, that is rare though.
Type rating 2 months.
That's a question a lot of CTC cadets who still don't have jobs ask themselves every day. BBVA don't care, you signed a contract that obligates you to make the agreed repayments, job or no job.
Absolutely no chance unless you get an Italian base with easyJet straight onto a European permanent contract.
Flexicrew is, I'm told, 30 at the absolute most of 900 hours a year and lots of standby duties.
Flybe is low 20's I think.
Monarch and Thomas Cook haven't dipped in for a long time.
Norwegian took a handful late last year. Employed by external agency OSM.
Ryanair don't have concrete links anymore to CTC. You can apply directly to Ryanair as a modular Pilot.
Look mate, your best bet is an MPL course. QR or easyJet. QR get paid more earlier but you have to live in the sandpit.
Loan arrangement fee with BBVA
Class 1 initial fee
Sustenance during training
Before training commences
Its not an ATPL. You can't have an ATPL until you have 1500 hours. It's a CPL/IR with an MCC certificate.
It is different for everyone. For some it's minutes, some stay in the hold pool for months/years. Some don't make it to the hold pool, that is rare though.
Type rating 2 months.
That's a question a lot of CTC cadets who still don't have jobs ask themselves every day. BBVA don't care, you signed a contract that obligates you to make the agreed repayments, job or no job.
Absolutely no chance unless you get an Italian base with easyJet straight onto a European permanent contract.
Flexicrew is, I'm told, 30 at the absolute most of 900 hours a year and lots of standby duties.
Flybe is low 20's I think.
Monarch and Thomas Cook haven't dipped in for a long time.
Norwegian took a handful late last year. Employed by external agency OSM.
Ryanair don't have concrete links anymore to CTC. You can apply directly to Ryanair as a modular Pilot.
Look mate, your best bet is an MPL course. QR or easyJet. QR get paid more earlier but you have to live in the sandpit.
