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watch out for Goldwings Flight Academy from Poland

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watch out for Goldwings Flight Academy from Poland

Old 15th Apr 2016, 12:57
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: EPWW
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watch out for Goldwings Flight Academy from Poland

Hello Board,

I am writing this to warn everyone about the scandalous treatment I have got during and after my training with Goldwings Flight Academy in Poland. FTOs based here use to have good reputation, the economical conditions are favorable, weather is acceptable etc. However not all schools are the same.

Goldwings FA is based on EPBC / Babice airfield pretty much in the city limits of Warsaw - the capital city of Poland. It is run by Arkadiusz Jesionek, who is a Head of Training there, together with his spouse Malgorzata Goralska (Head of Ground Administration and Head of Ground Traning).

I have done my PPL and ATPL theory through this school. All started with signing a standard PPL contract, like everywhere else in EU. The agreement included 5hrs of training on c172 and the rest was supposed to be done on the c152. My training finished successfully with 63hrs TT. Obviously, I have been charged for the additional hours, but there haven't been any flights done on the c172. Finally, after my multiple asking for any kind of correction to the invoice I was given a reply from the HoT himself that there was nothing to correct and that the case is over now.

The FTO's bureau is disorganized and the guy running it has been personally booking my training slots every time. Never have I had a chance to verify the roster for the upcoming week or to look back and see former dates. Finally I have had my student e-account set up about a year later, when it was needed for me to book my refreshment flight. BTW, that flight has not taken place anyway, as the instructor responsible for it (Mrs Goralska) left the school earlier that day without informing her own employees about the open slot. I have basically traveled on Friday afternoon to the airfield just to hear from the staff that "she has left and is not coming back any more".

Another sample from the PPL training (there are more, believe me) - my instructor and I have been waiting for the plane returning from a solo flight. All right, the plane got back, all checks and paperwork done, we start up, taxi to the holding point, do the ignition checks and the engine is running rough. After several attempts we had to head back, the reason - fouled spark plugs. Plane will be ready on the following morning. About half an hour later the Head of Training has been joking, suggesting publicly my wrong handling of the engine during taxiing.

My student folder, including the training roster and flight records has never been shown to me. After ending my training I have asked for accessing it to log down my own flights. The folder became "temporarily unavailable" and remained like that until today. The newest explanation I've got from the HoT is - "we do not feel obliged to grant you access to your folder Sir after the completion of your training".


ATPL Theory
This course was starting at the end of the same year. We were supposed to receive the Bristol GS DVDs after wiring the money. That almost worked out after payment I was told to wait - the school did not have the materials in stock although they have been promising something else before. Finally, after getting them, it turned out the materials couldn't be shipped with a tracked delivery. It didn't matter, if you're leaving abroad or in the next town down the road, they just could not. The reason - the staff does not have time to visit the drop off shop. The only possibility was to come and pick it up by yourself. Eventually I've managed to organize my friends leaving in Warsaw to come over and do that for me and even that has been coldly agreed to.

After completing the brush-up course we have been handed out a list of essay topics, after which our exam clearances would have been issued. The list came up with a delay, but checking of the essay works took two months more! Finally, after 75 days from the brush up ending I was cleared for my exams with the FAA.


If you're ever considering a school in Poland, I recommend to think twice before ending in my shoes. Poland is a great area for training and there are at least several of good training centres there, but Goldwings Flight Academy definately doesn't count amongst them!
EPWW is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2016, 22:38
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: GMTT
Posts: 50
Maybe this is the start of an awful thread like the Ventum Air one?...

EPWW Thanks for the info, apparently Eastern Europe is the worst place to do your flight training...
kilomike_19 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2016, 13:04
  #3 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,355
I think the moral of this story is that you fully research the ATO before you part with your hard earned cash. You speak to previous customers, and most importantly you visit all those ATOs on your short list.

Just looking at their fleet, a handful of SEP, and only ONE MEP. I think this might tell you that there is no redundancy if the Seneca goes tech?

I just wonder how many full time staff members they have.

So the attraction to the unsuspecting inexperienced customer, is the smooth sales patter, and an attractive price.

As for not being able to see your training records, I am having difficulty "joining up the dots".........
parkfell is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2016, 18:37
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Portugal
Posts: 5
My friend had similar experience with Goldwings and he didn't continue his training there. He immediately left the school after he got his PPL. They have become same as ventum air. They only care about taking your money and their flight training is definitely not professional
MrPilott is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2016, 20:27
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1
I must agree with above, avoid this place. They seem really attractive and promising at the beginning, but don't get fooled, been there done that.
aommi is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2016, 14:07
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Expat in BUD
Posts: 43
apparently Eastern Europe is the worst place to do your flight training...
Yeah... for sure blame half of the continent for one school.....
Griffon_PMI is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2016, 12:26
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds
Posts: 109
Sounds a tad bit racist too.. The same argument was used against Spanish schools. Yet the airlines have no issue hiring Pilots trained at Eastern European or Spanish schools..
Lokki is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2016, 17:26
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: -
Posts: 1,175
Originally Posted by kilomike_19 View Post
Maybe this is the start of an awful thread like the Ventum Air one?...

EPWW Thanks for the info, apparently Eastern Europe is the worst place to do your flight training...
We should all train in the UK, huh?
RedBullGaveMeWings is offline  
Old 22nd May 2019, 19:00
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Join Date: May 2019
Location: finland
Posts: 2
Thumbs down Goldwing waste of money and time

I don`t recommend this flight academy to anyone. Just a waste of time. Instructor did not teach properly, wanted to benefit my money. Instructor also falsified my lesson information in school training log website. As soon as I informed school management about problems in my training, I was kicked out from the school training log website. And after that the school management was not available for contact. After termination of contract, I did not get my certificate of flied hours and the right amount of money back.
LauraTahvanainen01 is offline  
Old 22nd May 2019, 23:54
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Poland
Posts: 2
I will not comment upon what the thread starter have written (I was not there in 2016 and the fleet is much bigger today, planes are waiting for students at least SEPs) other than the school got a free atmosphere (maybe very stiff people will not like it) and joking is common and never meant in bad faith. I have been at the school since January 2018 and I have never seen anyone being unhappy except for one foreign student who probably expected to finish the PPL(A) course within 45 mandatory hours and probably did not understand it depends on how quickly the student can learn to fly. The student was angry because the school did not let him fly solo cross country when having to land on a difficult grass runway (students and hour builders could go for 5 days to Kikity when airspace above EPBC was closed, there are also some trips there for those who wish to learn more difficult landings etc.) and that the instructor took over the controls during the landing. He got actually lessons with the best instructor (in my opinion) who lets you do almost every possible mistake just not crash the aircraft and I did actually happen to see it (I was going on a trip with AT3 to experience the new aircraft) from the "holding point" that the plane was almost in the flare far to the left outside of the runway when the instructor had to take over.

Other than the case described above I have not met unsatisfied students at Goldwings, only some frustrated ones who did not put an effort into learning the theory. Since there is a theory check both before first solo traffic pattern and before first solo cross country flight but I believe everyone I met understood that knowing the emergency procedures or other theory relevant to practical flying is for their own benefit and safety. I also have to add I did not meet absolutely every student at the school but everyone get to hear about it if someone was really unsatisfied and not just frustrated about being asked some hard but relevant questions.

As for the flight training it is up to everyone how fast he/she can progress and EPBC got an extended traffic pattern that takes 9 minutes to complete and it is a well known fact, so when requiring more flight training it is because of individual progress and for most people (including me when I was doing my PPL(A) ) learning to land is what takes most extra time beyond the mandatory 45 hours. The instructors have absolutely no personal interest in saying someone makes mistakes and notes in the system are for the other instructors to know what the student need to work more with. It is also possible to change instructors if someone do not like a particular instructor and no reason have to be given for the first change. The instructor can not say that the student fly well if it is not the case because before the solo flight another instructor have to perform an exam before the solo flight and he will not pass a student who might crash the plane it is the instructors responsibility and no one is taking a risk because someone is in a hurry and do not wish to use more time if he/she need it.

Goldwings Flight Academy is a school that require certain theoretical knowledge that require from the student to spend time learning, it also does not take chances with safety so people have to learn to fly before they can fly solo and they have to pass one exercise before they can move to more demanding exercises. It is for the benefit of the student and of course there have been students who learned extremely quickly and finished inside the mandatory 45 hours, one even did his whole PPL(A) training and passed the CAA exam in one month recently in March. It is up to the student how fast he/she learns to fly. No instructor can be a magician making the student learn quicker than the student can learn, or can magically make the student learn for example the procedures, communication or the symbols on the map if the student do not memorize them on his/her own. The instructor can explain and will explain but the student have to memorize him/herself.

Last edited by KT1988; 23rd May 2019 at 00:15.
KT1988 is offline  
Old 26th May 2019, 19:45
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Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 2
Hello
Everybody who consider to become Goldwings student should check out all the websites about this school. There is a lot of bad feedback about this school. Check also how this fellow KT1988 has been posting on this site, 124 times. Goldwings needs badly new students, so they probably pay this fellow to advertise their school. Most probably he is related to the director of the Goldwings academy.
fly8ma is offline  
Old 27th May 2019, 12:41
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Oslo
Posts: 15
Hmm Deja vu.
OlsAconye is offline  
Old 27th May 2019, 17:59
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Poland
Posts: 2
@fly8ma: I did only answer here because the person writing 22.05.2019 had a nick just like the name of a real student. Those on google reviews are names of people who have never ever been at the school, so its so obvious those feedback is from other schools competing about students, so no one cares to reply. And your nick, having just 1 post on the forum + the fact I can not remember any student from Bulgaria nor see any in flightlogger makes me think it is another opinion of an another flight school and not someone who have actually visited the school.

Also instead of telling others to do so do check my posts yourself, then you will see that most of them are a discussion about self employment vs. employment + questions about APS MCC programs. And just to clarify I am not related to anyone at Goldwings, and I am not employed or self employed there (in the future I will be an instructor). But building on my own experience at the school I believe in the school so I decided to join the success in October 2018. And as I wrote before I do own a Cessna 172 that fly for the school and it is no secret I write about it openly. And if you think about it then you might guess I decided to do it because the school was very good and I believe in its future and not because something was bad.
KT1988 is offline  
Old 27th May 2019, 18:49
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Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 2
Reason persons use pseudonym is that, putting real name one gets revenge from the school and the persons who are financially related to Goldwings. Just like this fellow KT1988.
fly8ma is offline  
Old 27th May 2019, 18:58
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Italy
Posts: 176
I sent them an email requesting some details about their MCC course and no reply at all..
Jolax is offline  
Old 27th May 2019, 21:42
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Poland
Posts: 2
@Jolax: Try writing to the school on facebook there they are replying frequently.

@fly8ma: The reason is those are not real persons but other schools trying to compete to get more students themselves. A real not satisfied student (sadly people have to put effort into their own learning) just as you saw in this thread had no problem signing with own name..... every student at Goldwings can express his/hers opinion. The only ones who do not sign with their names are those who never even visited the school most probably other schools believing in this old fashioned mud throwing. And of course not every other school does this just some of them and they managed on the Polish forum the feat that every school got mud thrown at it except for Bartolini because they are full so no point in mud throwing.

Your school will not get better because you throw mud at other schools if you lack students then try improving yours instead of throwing mud at others. And real students can sign with their names as you saw in this thread....

Last edited by KT1988; 28th May 2019 at 07:02.
KT1988 is offline  
Old 28th May 2019, 17:27
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Join Date: May 2019
Location: finland
Posts: 2
I wasted all the money I used in this school, because they didnīt give me certification of flown hours. And I have asked for it many times.

I canīt transfer my flight hours without certificate, which I flew at Goldwings, to other flight school. Do you want to experience the same?
LauraTahvanainen01 is offline  
Old 29th May 2019, 09:57
  #18 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,355
Always visit any establishment before any training course.
Spend at least a day talking to the staff and just as importantly the customers (students).

Any reputable ATO will actively encourage you to speak with the customers as they are entirely confident about the product they are supplying.

If their attitude is similar to visiting North Korea then avoid it like the plague.......
parkfell is offline  
Old 29th May 2019, 10:07
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Poland
Posts: 2
@parkfell: And that is why I encourage people to visit Goldwings Flight Academy or any other school in Poland personally instead of reading google reviews made by other schools with "pseudonyms". At Goldwings HQ recently anyone will meet a lot of students because some students rent rooms at the HQ for the time of their training. Plus they will meet a lot of students and instructors in the briefing room.
KT1988 is offline  
Old 29th May 2019, 11:00
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,624
Another piece of advice, don't believe anything they promise you.
Regarding Google reviews, they are very unreliable, also the good ones.
It seems many posting on these forums, do have a certain amount of self-interest in various schools /FTO's, so take any advice given here with a pinch of salt.
Every school will try to sell you their courses, never forget this. They are a business trying to capture your money.

A couple of the biggest lies around for all flight schools is the myth of "pilot shortage" There is NO pilot shortage of inexperienced 200 - 400 hours pilots.

FTOs are very good at creating cycles of spin, that makes people part with more money than they need, so they can get that first job. The flight schools are similar Used Car sales men, they will say whatever it takes to make you spend your money with them.
For wannabe pilots it's a minefield of BS out there.
Remember when you have spent your money, it's not their problem anymore. Many promise more than they can keep, but when you discover this it's already to late.

The airlines do check training records, and they do care where you have trained. This might sound unfair, but this is based on experience where they see some schools don't meet the same training standards for the pilots they train as others.
So always be aware where you train, the cheapest is not always the best, equally as the most expensive does not guarantee you anything either.
2unlimited is offline  

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