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Goldwings Warsaw - Feedback

Old 31st May 2019, 00:02
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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You seem to know an awful lot about the flight school you are training at.
I am not mudslinging, I just read Eaglejet are partner with Nordica now in 2019, and there are more stories about Nordica P2F connections from the past.
I did not say Goldwings was working with Eaglejet, I said Eaglejet is working with Nordica. You need to read correctly what I write. Fly Nordica is the P2F company.

https://news.err.ee/117635/fly-with-...nks-say-pilots

""Pilots pay to fly
Airlines operating so-called pay-to-fly schemes make the situation even worse. Pilots’ licenses depend on their experience with individual plane types, measured in hours spent flying aircraft. Under pay-to-fly, pilots pay their employer for training and flight hours in order to log the time needed to acquire their license. A pilot often must pay tens of thousands of euros, a sum deducted from their pay.
Through Nordic Crew Management, NAG hires for a base salary plus hours flown, and at the same time hires based on pay-to-fly, which creates deductions to an already performance-dependent salary."
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Old 31st May 2019, 06:23
  #42 (permalink)  

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Any form of P2F scheme needs to be banned by the Regulators, together with any form of anti avoidance scheme to circumvent the rules.

Once fare paying passengers are carried, then it is only equitable that the newly qualified FO is paid a salary.
Any ATO who associates themselves with this type of scheme must be treated with great suspicion and must declare just what financial arrangement has been entered into to encourage the unsuspecting customer (student) sign up to such a immoral scheme.

Even if you complete a P2F scheme, you will more than likely be let go, for the next junior birdman to be sucked into P2F.
Any reputable operator will simply not contemplate such an arrangement.

There are sufficient horror stories in the public domain to warn off any intelligent person from contemplating this rip off.

ATOs reputations deserve to suffer if they encourage P2F
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Old 31st May 2019, 07:29
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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P2F

KT1988

Will you “nail your colours to the mast” and unequivocally condemn all forms of P2F scheme on this Pprune forum.

A simple YES or NO answer. No waffle. Yes, or No....
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Old 31st May 2019, 11:14
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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@2unlimited: Of course I know a lot about the flight school. I am not the kind of guy who start training somewhere or invest in something (like an aircraft) just thinking "oh it will be great" instead I learn about it and see if it works good.

Any pilot from Goldwings who will be assessed by Nordica and get a job there will be paid by Nordica in the same way (of course the salaries vary) as pilots get paid by Ryanair, Wizz Air, LOT, etc. I do not say Nordica does not or did not in the past, (I am not current on Nordica business situation) use pilots who pay2fly through eaglejet og aviationCV or whatever pay2fly company there exist, in the past also Enter Air did or so the Internet says. But that is Nordica and Eaglejet and their customers problem (looks like they are so extremely few it does not fill any demand). Nordica does certainly also hire pilots who get paid in the casual way with an assessment just like Enter Air did all the time. Whatever airlines do with other companies have absolutely nothing to do with Goldwings.

THE POINT: Goldwings will in the close future offer the possibility to for FREE get an assessment with Nordica and get a job where airline pay the pilot in the casual way just like any other airline. Its nothing else just an extra possibility for the students.

Simply: Goldwings does not, did not and will never have anything to do with any pay2fly scheme. Cooperation with any airline is and will be the normal scheme where airline pay the pilot employed simple as that. So stop creating fiction.
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Old 31st May 2019, 11:56
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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I would be more curious to see what kind of "contract" Nordica will offer in this kind of agreement.
Normally when it's to good to be true, there is always a catch. Description on website was very cagey and secretive, I wonder why!
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Old 31st May 2019, 13:16
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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@2unlimited: Description is precise about what the student (program is for current students or people who already got PPL(A) so its cheaper than 0-ATPL) will train at Goldwings: ATPL(A) theory, VFR Night, MEP(L), IR(A), CPL(A) + MCC/JOC included in the price.

Whatever Nordica does after this if the student pass the Nordica assessment is Nordica responsibility. Just as for example the expensive famous schools who got a deal with Ryanair for example are not responsible for the part done by Ryanair for those who pass the assessment. As you can guess Goldwings do not have their own Bombardier CRJ 700-900 (or type rating instructors) so the school can not be responsible for Nordica, the school only give students who choose to do so a FREE chance to be assessed by Nordica. And from what the school currently know (the cooperation have not started yet) Nordica is offering the same type of contract as it offer for regular cadet FOs who apply directly at Nordica for the standard assessment so its a salary for 70 block hours per month + extra if more hours are done from what I know. Nordica is also partially owned by LOT Polish Airlines so that can probably also give later career opportunities.

Its just like in the past with Enter Air, people who applied directly got the Enter Air assessment and the Enter Air standard salary for cadet FOs. Today I believe there is no more "back door entrance" at Enter Air and people do not even have to pay for the type rating but they get a bond (many students and instructors got the normal Enter Air job) that is not being deducted from salary but activated in case they wish to leave early (Ryanair like pilots with experience on 737NG). As for Nordica I do not know because no instructor or student I personally know got a job there (one of my instructors got the offer but at the same time he got an offer from Wizz Air and chose the Wizz Air job) but the job offered is the normal job with salary as for everyone else going there directly.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 09:42
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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does anyone know if you already have a PPL and do the rest of the 0-fATPL in poland do you have to pay the 23% tax?
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 10:51
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@asmith474: Its a profession study (you will become a commercial pilot) so you will not need to pay the 23 % VAT if you did only PPL(A) without the rest then you would have to.
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 17:29
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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@KT1988: I am an international student and was enrolled in the 0-ATPL program by Goldwings. I paid them a deposit of 1000 euros before I applied for the study visa, which was finally refused. As I cannot go to Poland, I have to quit this program and request the school a refund of the deposit, which they agreed to do. On 3rd October one of the school's heads, Ms Goralska told me via wechat that they would refund me next week, but then she totally disappeared. I can on longer contact her and other guys of the school from then on. I tried many ways like whatsapp, wechat and email(I had already sent them my visa refusal letter and the original acceptance letter and the reciept of deposit payment)these days, but they didnt respond at all. This is very unusual. Now it is resonable for me to suspect why they avoid me all the time and if they didnt plan to refund me but break their promise and swallow my money?

As you seem to know the Goldwings very well, so I want to ask do you know what happened to the school and how to contact the guys in other ways? Thanks for your help.

Last edited by milosmilos; 26th Oct 2020 at 08:41.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 08:59
  #50 (permalink)  

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If you live in London, then you have EU entry approval? As Poland is part of the EU why was VISA APPLICATION refused?
Cold comfort, but you have got off comparatively lightly compared to some, who have lost money in flying training, as it was only a deposit, as oppose to a substantial advance payment at course commencement.

If you go back through this thread, there are indications that this ATO needed careful scrutiny prior to selection.
Never select an establishment without visiting it first. If that is not possible then you must research all the options, and ideally get a recommendation from a trusted individual preferably one who has recently finished training at the ATO.
The cheapest price is not necessarily best value for money.

As for KT1988 he has not posted this year. The bird has flown?

Last edited by parkfell; 26th Oct 2020 at 15:34. Reason: final sentence
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Old 27th Oct 2020, 08:23
  #51 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by parkfell
If you live in London, then you have EU entry approval?
I may have slightly misquoted but actually no. If you are a full British citizen yes, but my wife has a British Residence Permit, and that only entitles her to live here. It’s because we are not part of the Schengen group of countries.
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Old 27th Oct 2020, 11:40
  #52 (permalink)  

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The updated information is that milosmilos does not in fact reside in London, but in China, hence the need for a VISA.
I take your point about the residency vagaries UK v. EU regulations.
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Old 15th Dec 2020, 10:28
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Angry Worst Training "school"

Hello guys .
Honestly there isnt enough space to explain my feelings about this scammers .
Yea unfortunatelly i was the latest victim of this "school"
There is almost none pros of this school i want to briefly talk about cons
They have stupid boss who called bartek and he and his crew only looks your money ,they give you promises and never they can fullfill ,your slots can be have cancelled or delayed without any purpose , if you from out of some europe countries their behaviours to you extremelly racist (ofcourse after the payment) ,the quality of training is ****ty they are expecting from you self-study thats why knowledge of most instrucktors worst then qualified student pilots , i want to mention about time of training its funny i am sure you will laugh ... Yea they are giving 0atpl course minimum 3 years taking .. why ? Because this place isnt well-organized ,They are giving priviledge to their "perfect super clever " polish students ,when you go office mostly they repond you polish language even though you dont understand something , they insulting to you ,FROM BOSS TO EACH EMPLOYEE İN OFFlCE LOUDLY SWEARlNG EACH OTHER .. yes guys this is funny and true all the time they talking vulgar language ,you dont feel that you are flight academy ,you feel like you are in highschool
for almost all part of your training you are waiting for something or aircraft not ready or instructor dont wanna fly or they change your slot with someone and they dont give you new one
When i finish this "academy" i was the happiest person because not that i got my license .. because i got rid of them ,
i had a couple of friends left this barn for not to fight with them unfortunatelly i didnt had this opportunity i regret ..
For the people who think to start his carrier in this barn please my friend be far from EPBC . The Money is not important as much your aviation love , for the not loose your passion do not even open this barn door .

Trust me guys this what i wrote above its only %10 of what we live in there ..
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 17:11
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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@parkfell: I have not been posting on the forum because maybe you noticed we had a pandemic that screwed everything so I rather waited with my final training as long as possible (ATPL theory pass is not valid forever). Also as written in Ryan air topic I don't wanna take instructor spot just because I can (after finishing FI(A) of course) if there are better ones than me doing it currently but happily people are back at their airlines so everything is slowly going back to normal. Flying for me is something I enjoy its not something I do because of economic reasons, as for economic stuff I could just sit rest of my life and wait for different investment payouts each month (which I also did during pandemic). As for prepayments I have not heard much about it but I believe it was called "zadatek" and not "zaliczka" so its non refundable part of the payment for flight training, and there was A LOT of people who could not enter Poland during the pandemic but now it should be possible and everyone who paid anything will get its worth the school is not responsible for the state, the pandemic or people not getting visas during pandemic.

Personally I paid 19 % of 30 extra PIC ME hours (I want to learn to fly the ME aircraft for real not just do the mandatory MEP(L) training, maybe once upon a time get CRI/ME and my own DA-42) but postponed the whole stuff so I can do it fresh instead of doing it in 2020 in the middle of pandemic. The cash is not gone its waiting there for when I wanna do the training, if someone prepay something before they find out stuff with the state or the pandemic etc. its not the schools fault. Its clearly informed what is prepayment that can not be withdrawn and what is payment that can be refunded. What if someone fail I class medical? The school actually advise everyone to take the I class medical BEFORE signing up for any training if someone living abroad say they have everything ok and sign, is it the schools fault if they fail I class medical that they said they already have?

@TheCapn: You do realize you should have chosen integrated training that usually cost 2x the price if you do not want to do self-study? Actually even in an integrated course the instructors wont learn for you, you will have to do some self-study. Plus if someone is struggling with theory its possible in Poland to hire private instructor for the theory part. Also the school offer theory lessons with instructors for free, but I actually heard one guy manage to say they he do not want to...... some people do actually believe stuff should learn itself without their personal effort. Modular course includes self-study. I have never ever seen anyone laughing of foreign students and we had some real professional students from Turkiye who were previously F-16 pilots doing their civil commercial licenses. But there have also been some who talked a lot about their dads being captains and having a job waiting for them, while some of them were unable to answer basic questions from the instructor (or discuss aviation stuff with other students) about the training they were supposed to do. But still no one did treat it in a bad way at the school (of course the school does not have "stiff" atmosphere so people do joke and have fun, and its other students joking not the staff). The whole office at the school is proficient in English and speak English with every student who wish to speak English.

As for "super clever students" who actually care to do their self-study and learn the stuff required for the different lessons of course they get their lessons when they are prepared for them. If someone know almost nothing then the person is sent and even helped to learn the stuff that is supposed to be read and learned by the student in modular course. If done otherwise then the lesson would be a waste of time and the students money, imagine the outrage if someone was flying 3x the hours for ME/IR for example because the school said its ok that you know nothing and do not want to self-study or do extra free theory lessons with the instructor since you will learn in the cockpit..... of course there exist schools all over Europe that pass students who don't fly the aircraft themselves and even have friendly examiners but then if someone want only a license and not learn to fly then they should not choose a school that actually is learning people to fly and not pushing them through the course just to get it done.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 19:11
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goldwings scam

@KT1988 hahaha you are the one office guy one of high rank person in goldwings probably. Dont worry i am keeping proof of records that you and your intructors racisim. Yea definitely "stiff" atmosphere means swear in Polish to international students who dont understand any polish words. i and my lots friends suffered from your "academy" a lot. if we start to tell our story it will be novel but we focus that rest of aviation lovers will not fall in to goldwings trap ! i want to say sth about the "basic questions" they asked : guys they never asked polish students that kind of aviation questions . They (especially fat boss) stopping you and want to make quiz by ear unless you give a wrong respond he continue to ask afterall boom you fail ! you dont know anything! you from ...... all of you waste of time ! starts to insult you . We lived lots of disgusting moments with those nonhumans. So telling you again do not give any of your money those scammers.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 21:04
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@TheCapn: I am not an office guy, other than some short visits last time I was at the EPBC was in March 2020 before the pandemic. Now I will be back to complete my training but definitely not for any office stuff BTW no one is swearing in Polish to international students sometimes people talk with each other and use some words to underline something if something is wrong, but its when people talk to each other and not to the student (office people talking to other office people present) what would be the point to swear to someone who do not understand it?

Every single student is asked the same kind of questions, of course the polish students are asked in polish. A lot of polish students have also failed theory questions and had to redo them, but they usually live at home so you don't see them living at the schools rooms for rent since they go home after failed theory check. There are far more polish students than foreign at the school so of course you see many more of them coming from their homes to fly after passing the theory check. So how can you say they have not been asked if you do not understand polish and BTW the asking is not in front of an audience.... if someone who is not polish do not do proper effort or do not know stuff it does not mean its "racism" to ask the person to upgrade the theoretical knowledge and everything asked is related to the practical task its not stuff like in ATPL theory exams that is not to be used practically. There were a lot of students from Turkiye who did their civil aviation licenses coming from military F-16 I wonder why they were all satisfied got all the training very fast and were very happy with the school? Maybe because they already knew all the necessary knowledge for each task in the training? There are also a lot of fresh students who were also very happy but they also did the effort to learn stuff. The school is definitely not good for people who just want to get a license but do not want to learn to fly properly and complete all the necessary training as it should be done, there exist other schools who just push people towards the paper and do not care if they know how to fly or not (I heard of schools where people do not fly PIC hours or solo by themselves even since those schools do not dare to let them fly alone). The school requires effort and its for people who really want to learn to fly and are prepared to give it proper effort. I have never seen anyone doing proper effort being unhappy with the school since December 2017 (before I have not been there so I do not know).

PS. During the pandemic everything was waiting for the students who were available to fly in Poland. So the only reason someone was not flying was failed theory since it was 100 % in the schools interest to have people flying when aircraft were standing empty and waiting. If the school was unfair they would just fly with not ready students 3x the time to complete the training instead of making sure that everyone is prepared for the lessons and wont be learning theory while in the cockpit flying. So everyone should be happy to skip those extra expenses and instead learn the stuff like it should be done before the practical lesson.

Last edited by KT1988; 18th Jan 2022 at 21:12. Reason: Adding postscriptum
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Old 10th Nov 2022, 09:55
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Don't give them money your money. Me and group of my friends paid for UPRT course and most of us done it after nearly half year (it's 2 day course). One of my instructor was Bartek - boss, the most unkind and unproffesional person I ever met. After lot of delays we were set up for last part of course at another airport (they were renting aircraft from aeroclub), we were waiting for 2 days there with zero information from our instructor when he's gonna come, that he's gonna be late and that he's not gonna come at all the first day - we were told by direction of aeroclub that he's not coming - it should not work like that at all. Of course we were trying to reach him, first he wasn't responding to our calls, then he blocked our numbers. At second day we finally finished training (but that were most unpleasant flights from my aviation training) and we thought that it's over - no. We were reaching the school every few days for information about flight to update our logbook - we finally got it after 2 months when we directly messaged aeroclub from who the airplane was rented. Don't go there if you don't want to be treated like garbage by people who only cares about your wallet - they are not signing contracts (they say because it's short training) but now I see why.
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Old 15th Nov 2022, 06:33
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Their website should've been a warning really
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 07:54
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Uprt training goldwings flight academy warsaw

I recommend to do your training UPRT (the other training I’m not sure about it) in another place than this school. I wanted to do my UPRT training since November 2022 It’s January 2023 and still now I didn’t do any.

Lot of excuses, lack of professionalism, just to start the theory course for UPRT I have called more than 2 weeks.Unpleasantly behaving. Every time I need something it’s like asking for 2 to 3 times to get a proper reply.

I am a very patient person but for me now it starting to be annoying I have very soon airline ASSESMENT and they are asking for my UPRT certificate.

in all cases for those looking out for information about the UPRT training don’t go there until you want to wait apparently 6months for a 2 day training.

good luck.
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 14:14
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As far as I know the UPRT training started from October 2022 when the school received a brand new aircraft for UPRT (ZLIN Z 242 L). Everyone was also informed about when the aircraft arrives and it was announced on the schools facebook etc itd. Since October the UPRT training is done in 1 day (if weather permits remember its winter now) and already over 200 students completed it as far as I know.

So if you did not recieve UPRT traning I would recommend contacting the school not writing here and you will be flying tomorrow or first day with proper weather. If you are not flying its because 1. You did not contact the school or 2. You are not a student but some other flightschool who just want to complain since almost no school in Poland got a brand new UPRT aircraft and give JOC on A320 SIM as bonus to the UPRT. So if your school can not provide the training then dont pretend you are a student because as far as I can see from the flightlogger system everyone who want to fly UPRT get it the first day weather permits since October.

Also for people outside of school (no flightlogger) you can see people who finished UPRT on facebook or instagram with names and pictures and the amount of them. Real students finishing the course, not other schools who do not got the aircraft for it. You can also come to the school on a good weather day if you are lucky and come in the morning you will fly the same day.
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