Paying for it!
FTE mentioned the 90% figure after they had their final course payment so probably a bit late for the sales pitch but I take your point, nothing is guaranteed. You pays your money, you takes your choice.
Mrs Bws.
Mrs Bws.
de minimus non curat lex
Irrespective of where you train, it is not a right of passage. Licence issue is only a small part of the process.
Those who do well in GS/flying, and have a positive outcome on the MCC/ JOC course will succeed.
The sim ride with the perspective employer is the acid test.
Those who do well in GS/flying, and have a positive outcome on the MCC/ JOC course will succeed.
The sim ride with the perspective employer is the acid test.
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Starting salaries vary between £18,000 and £25,000. There will be additional pay on top of this, which vary considerably. There are websites which detail all of the pay scales for all of the airlines. Some details are more up to date than others, but you'll get an idea.
Those schools suggesting a 90% employment rate within 3 months etc are skewing these figures. They're referring to integrated graduates, who are then paying another £25-£30k for a type rating.
Integrated cadets have to pass an entry exam which gives an indication of initial aptitude, while modular cadets often don't need to do this. This explains why very often integrated graduates are preferred by the airlines. This isn't always the case and there are exceptions to this rule.
If you are able to get a job and to stay in the job, within around 5 years you'll be up to a sensible salary, say around £45k. However this really does depend very much on which airline you are with.
Re funding. If you are planning on paying for your son's training, be aware that the £90,000 is a minimum fee. If there is additional training required there may well be extra costs. Say he doesn't do as well in the study stage as he might have done, he will most likely drop back a class which adds time. This will often be charged as extra tuition and accommodation costs have been incurred. Same with flight training, repeat ground exams and flight tests. There are also additional resources that he may wish to purchase, such as access to online study aids etc.
If you can afford to pay all of this, don't hand it over all at once. Pay for each phase as it happens, never all up front. If you can't afford £100k+, there are loans available secured on your property. If you still can't afford it, consider the modular route. You get the same piece of paper, for £30-£40k less, depending on how you plan your training. You do handicap your job prospects, but your financial burden is considerably less. If you are good, the handicap is less. There are also a number of "finishing school" courses springing up at a cost of £10-£15k who take modular students and turn them into the standardised product that the airlines want. Still cheaper than integrated, and still money left in the equivalent pot to pay for a type rating.
Regarding hiring cycles, nobody can predict what will happen in the airline industry. Right now is the best anyone has seen it for a very long time. The flagship carriers are hiring and that's trickling downstream to the short haul and regional operators. So there is a lot of movement right now. In one or two years time, who knows where it will be? If I were to guess, next year will be good, the year after will be slower again, and the year after that will be slower again. But that's me guessing, because to be honest anyone's guess is as good as the next.
The fact still remains that this is a crappy industry. It's not the glamourous, well paid, cushy number that it might have once appeared to be. It's long hard hours, limited work-life balance, no ability to make plans for the future (that birthday party next month? Forget it. Home for Christmas? Probably not.) The pay is pretty poor for a while. You're constantly being tested (every 6 months), which is absolutely right, but some people find the stress of these tests to be awful. You get to fly with some fantastic people, and you get to fly with some people who are downright unpleasant. You still have to spend several hours sat next to and working with someone who you really don't like. That takes professionalism and dedication.
As I said before, if your son REALLY want this, it's worth continuing, if not I would recommend encouraging him to find an alternative career.
Those schools suggesting a 90% employment rate within 3 months etc are skewing these figures. They're referring to integrated graduates, who are then paying another £25-£30k for a type rating.
Integrated cadets have to pass an entry exam which gives an indication of initial aptitude, while modular cadets often don't need to do this. This explains why very often integrated graduates are preferred by the airlines. This isn't always the case and there are exceptions to this rule.
If you are able to get a job and to stay in the job, within around 5 years you'll be up to a sensible salary, say around £45k. However this really does depend very much on which airline you are with.
Re funding. If you are planning on paying for your son's training, be aware that the £90,000 is a minimum fee. If there is additional training required there may well be extra costs. Say he doesn't do as well in the study stage as he might have done, he will most likely drop back a class which adds time. This will often be charged as extra tuition and accommodation costs have been incurred. Same with flight training, repeat ground exams and flight tests. There are also additional resources that he may wish to purchase, such as access to online study aids etc.
If you can afford to pay all of this, don't hand it over all at once. Pay for each phase as it happens, never all up front. If you can't afford £100k+, there are loans available secured on your property. If you still can't afford it, consider the modular route. You get the same piece of paper, for £30-£40k less, depending on how you plan your training. You do handicap your job prospects, but your financial burden is considerably less. If you are good, the handicap is less. There are also a number of "finishing school" courses springing up at a cost of £10-£15k who take modular students and turn them into the standardised product that the airlines want. Still cheaper than integrated, and still money left in the equivalent pot to pay for a type rating.
Regarding hiring cycles, nobody can predict what will happen in the airline industry. Right now is the best anyone has seen it for a very long time. The flagship carriers are hiring and that's trickling downstream to the short haul and regional operators. So there is a lot of movement right now. In one or two years time, who knows where it will be? If I were to guess, next year will be good, the year after will be slower again, and the year after that will be slower again. But that's me guessing, because to be honest anyone's guess is as good as the next.
The fact still remains that this is a crappy industry. It's not the glamourous, well paid, cushy number that it might have once appeared to be. It's long hard hours, limited work-life balance, no ability to make plans for the future (that birthday party next month? Forget it. Home for Christmas? Probably not.) The pay is pretty poor for a while. You're constantly being tested (every 6 months), which is absolutely right, but some people find the stress of these tests to be awful. You get to fly with some fantastic people, and you get to fly with some people who are downright unpleasant. You still have to spend several hours sat next to and working with someone who you really don't like. That takes professionalism and dedication.
As I said before, if your son REALLY want this, it's worth continuing, if not I would recommend encouraging him to find an alternative career.
Thread Starter
Fwjc: Thank you for your honest and forthright response. All essential reading.
I didn't realise the starting salaries had dipped so pitifully low!
Is this the same for people like IAG / Virgin / Cathay etc?
Regards TC
I didn't realise the starting salaries had dipped so pitifully low!
Is this the same for people like IAG / Virgin / Cathay etc?
Regards TC
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Those salaries haven't dipped. They've been roughly the same for the past 10 years.
That's what junior/cadet FOs are paid. For sure, there maybe allowances etc but that's what the going rate is.
Direct entry is often better - but you need experience for that.
If you want a shock, check out what flight instructors are paid.
That's what junior/cadet FOs are paid. For sure, there maybe allowances etc but that's what the going rate is.
Direct entry is often better - but you need experience for that.
If you want a shock, check out what flight instructors are paid.
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Little thread drift here redsnail, but although you are correct about pay as far as PPL/smaller ATO instructors are concerned, the more prominent ATO's don't pay too badly. Not suggesting you'd make the money over an instructing career that a NJE or BA pilot would over theirs, but I understand that it's acceptable - which it should be when you consider how much an integrated CPL/IR with MCC costs these days.
I know of several FI's in the U.S. employed by these same European ATO's who are building their 1500 hours whilst saving enough to support themselves for when they eventually progress up to the significantly lower paid regionals.
I know of several FI's in the U.S. employed by these same European ATO's who are building their 1500 hours whilst saving enough to support themselves for when they eventually progress up to the significantly lower paid regionals.
