RedBullGaveMeWings

No Pipers at the place I am doing my PPL, but I wouldn't mind some familiarization hours during hour building with an instructor.


Thanks!

weedman1990

Yeah i'm pretty sure they will provide that there when they offer you the ground training and the flying. Because then again they have to do a checkout!

weedman1990

@RedBullGaveMeWings

Just thought I'd let you know that Chandler Air Services gave me a quote on the PA28, so even if i chose to be on the Piper Cherokee the price would be even cheaper for me

RedBullGaveMeWings

Thanks, I appreciate the update. I will be writing them in a few.

jackcarls0n

Does anyone know of a good place to do multi hours time in Central Florida?

weedman1990

Try this place:

FlyMiami | Dean International - Miami Flight School - South Florida

They are based in Miami.

Duchess_Driver

Just make sure you are actually going to get what you think you're getting

Taxes, wet rates..... and the number of (propper) P1 hours quoted.

Straighten Up

I posted in the N America forum but no reply. Wondering if anyone has any experience of this firm out of Long Beach airport, CA. They've quoted me $89/hr wet incl tax in a 152. Any feedback appreciated.

Lakhan

Just a quick question. To those who hour build in the US, do you take friends or other buddies with you? Just curious.

Second note: are you allowed to fly multi engine p1? Or does there have to be a safety pilot on board?

DeanKline

Hello !
I'm a newbie to this site, but i do have a question, which I could use a bit of advice on.

i am currently living in the UK and doing my PPL . I grew up in the US (Albuquerque, NM) and I plan to head back there to do my hour building to reach the CPL prerequisites (150 hours, i believe?) as it seems like the most cost effective way to build my hours taking onto consideration the cost of building hours in the UK, especially since accomodation would already be taken care of- my old man stil lives in ABQ!

i'm wondering if the 'hour building' stage which sets you up for the CPL is normaly done in a single engine, such as a Piper or a C152/172 etc, or if its worth using some of these c 100 hours to build up Multi time?
Obviously i would need to obtain a rating for the Multi, but would it help if i used this time (and money) towards building both, and then go into my CPL and ATPL theory with experience in both?

Also, would it be a good idea to start my ATPL Theory whilst building hours?

just trying to get to grips with the best way to progress! My aim, if you hadnt already guesed, is to fly for a living, and i am going the modular route as i dont have £80+K to part with at the prime age of 22, for the integrated route .. thanks for reading, and i appreciate anyones '2cents'.

forever the optimist.

flarepilot

in your case wouldn't it be 250 hours?

if you are smart, you will use the time to get an instrument rating


of course it is expensive but its up to you...I hate the single cessnas...try piper.

DeanKline

thanks for the advice FlarePilot.

Ive done most of my training in a Piper Warrior and i enjoy it, but from a cost perspective the Cessna seems to come out cheaper. Suppose this is more down to preference and is not so important..

so you are saying the entry requirements for CPL are 250hours TT to begin the CPL? I'm sure I read somewhere that is was 150hours TT to start CPL? is this different stateside as i may do ALL of my training out there..

the IR is a good idea although if i do this is in a single, would i then need to repeat that for a MEIR?

sorry for the questions and appreciate the help

OhNoCB

Not sure if it's different in the states (don't see why it would be, assuming still under the EASA regime) but 150h TT to start the CPL is correct.

I think the experience of hour building in a twin would be good, but honestly I don't think it's worth the amount extra you would be spending. The other problem (maybe easier in the states) is finding someone to let you rent a twin when you have virtually no experience. Think insurance requirements etc.

You can do a single engine IR as part of 'hour building' if you wish but bear in mind that you need exams completed for this, and you also need to make sure you're going to end up with enough PIC time for licence issue (hearing rumours that it will now be required to sit the CPL skills test). You do not have repeat the IR to get a multi engine version, but there is a conversion course as such. I believe it's 5 hours of which 3 can be done on a sim (from memory).

Lastly, theory before, during or after hour building is really up to you. I personally did the theory first doing maybe an hour a month just to keep my hand in, and then did the majority of the hour building afterwards. My reasoning for this was the I figured that the hour building was going to be the chance to be the most 'current' I ever had been to this point. Doing between 50-100h in a month or so should leave you very 'in tune' with the skills required, especially if you use the hour building properly to practice for CPL stuff (Cross countries to different places, different turning points, diversions in flight etc without a GPS). I think it is wise then to start the CPL straight after the hour building while you are still on top form, instead of doing the hour building, then sitting indoors doing theory for half a year then jumping into an airplane having done maybe a few hours in the last 6 months and hope to fly to CPL standard.

Private_flyer

Thinking of heading Stateside myself. Have around 94 TT and 54 PIC. My priority will be the TT for CPL start. Just wondering should I do MEP rating while Stateside? Would this save a few hundred Euro later on during MEIR? Or is it all the same whether you do MEIR together? Since I have to build up to 200 hours by CPL test anyways might it be good idea as it would be cheaper out there and spread the learning a little more?

Any advice on sequence of training would be much appreciated!

Mikehotel152

A few years ago when I was at the same stage of my training I considered paying extra for twin time, but it is completely pointless unless you are planning on doing Flying Instruction, Air Taxi or similar work. Airline recruiters won't care - except with passing interest as a topic of conversation.

The key things with hour building is (a) do it economically, (b) have a helluva lot of fun buying bacon butties at far-flung aerodromes, and (c) incorporate a little bit of training, such VOR tracking, Flight plan trips into foreign countries etc.

At no other time in your life will you be 'forced' to fly 100 hours in a relatively short space of time. Right now you might be thinking mainly in terms of getting the hour-building done so that you can start the commercial licence, but in the future you'll look back on it as a wonderful opportunity to fly expensive aeroplanes for fun!

funkydreadlocks

Requirement to start CPL training is 150h.

However, keep in mind that CPL training is around 37-45 hours of flying, whilst the requirements to undertake the exam is a minimum of 200h.

You need 250h to get a frozen ATPL. That's once you've done alll the necessary training (which does not need, but is highly recommended to have JOC).

I recommend doing the ATPL first if you're doing it here in Europe (EASA). It's what I'm doing. I miss the crap out of flying, but that way I concentrate on my ATPL exams. Remember that here it's 14 exams, not 2, like in the US. Also, that way when I get back to flying, it'll 100% of the time flying and no huge delays between flight sessions. This will keep me fresh and up to date. I recommend you do the same.

I'm told the ATPL theory is the hardest part of flight training, and I'm hoping that the peron who told me this (airline pilot) is right, because it's very tiring to do that AND a university degree at the same time.

If you do ATPL theory exams, YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO CPL THEORY. ATPL covers all the material and beyond. CPL in EU is 9 exams if I'm not mistaken (1 in the US).

Before you think about doing your ATP in the US and then converting, part of the conversion is taking those 14 exams, so it would be a waste of time and money.

I hear many people arguing about whether you should do your hour building in the US or not. I can't really contribute to that debate to be honest.

There's one thing I cans ay however. Wherever you do your hour building, MAKE IT COUNT.

That means, don't spend 90 hours doing cross countries with friends on board and pottering around in the local area. Get an instructor to fly with you every X number of hours. Have him correct you to a CPL standard. Make him give you exercises and skills to practice when you're flying alone. And try to visit as many different airspace and airfields/airports as possible.

One thing I started doing after I got my PPL was begin a Flying Diary. After every flight I would write an entry about what happened in the flights, what mistakes I made and how I think I could have avoided making them. I would also add bullet points for things I believed I needed to work on for next flight, and which problems I had successfully eliminated that I had outlined in previously entries. It had become part of my postflight routine after filling out all the logbooks.
I plan on doing this once more when I get back to flying.

There's a book, "Commercial Pilot's License", by Anneli Christian-Phillips, which gives a bunch of useful information to know about the CPL and how to be best prepared for it.

Summary (tl;dr):

if you want to go into airlines or do ATPL at all, skip CPL theory, go to straight to that
You need 150h to qualify for CPL training, but 200h to qualify for the examination
Best to do all the theory first, then fly. More efficient and better for learning retention
When you do hour build, make it count for something by learning as you gain experience.
PPL is a license to learn

pilotchute

Night hour building.

Im planning on being in the USA around August to do some night flying. What would be the best area to do it in? I know that time of year the weather in the USA can be a bit unpredictable?

East Coast preferably but Midwest may be an option. Any suggestions appreciated.

OhNoCB

funkydreadlocks, I just want to correct a couple of things (unless they have changed fairly recently).

CPL training is not 37-45 hours training, it is a 25 hours minimum reducing to 15 if you already hold an IR. It may be true that not everyone does it in minimum time but I personally haven't heard of many (any if I'm honest) going up close to 40.

If you were saying this to include the IR, then it is perhaps closer to that depending on the sim/flying time split.

Also 250h is NOT a required for an "fATPL" primarily for the reason that there can be no requirements for it as it technically doesn't exist. It is merely a term commonly used to refer to having a CPL, MEIR, MCC and ATPL Theory completed. This can be done with a minimum of I believe 200h + CPL test time.

Mikehotel152

I don't think this is correct. You simply need the minimum 70 PIC time and total time of 150 to take the CPL test. The 200 hour figure is the minimum for CPL 'issue'. Most people do the MEP and IR and then apply for CPL issue at the end of the training.

As funkydreadlocks says, don't waste AVGAS burning holes in the skies, but I don't agree that you should make sure every flight counts in a 'training' sense. Have FUN! Take your family and friends for flights.

But like all things, a balance between fun and purpose is important. The CPL is not difficult and if you've done a bit of beacon bashing during your hour-building you'll be fine. The IR is the hard part because of the multi-tasking and your hour-building won't be of much help with that, but if you bear that your ultimate aim is to be a commercial pilot, so use your time wisely.

DeanKline

thanks alot for the advice everyone. much appreciated!

So, building multi time in the states may be useful from a training/experience standpoint, but not so cost effective when the goal is primarily to build hours (and have fun, of course). thanks for that tip, however, i may still do some time in a twin while im out there,just to get a feel for it, and may even get my Multi rating while im there (still cheaper than UK!) - isnt the multi rating accomplished with only a handful of hours with an instructor?

With regards to the ATPL (UK) - if i was to do the theory in the UK, exams and all, and then do the rest of my training ( IR, CPL, MCC) in the US, how does the license conversion work? by that my mean ATPL UK > ATP US, with the intention of utilising these licenses stateside.

While on the topic of ATPL theory, has anyone done this ( ideally the 'distance learning' method) and could shed some light on the level of complexity, and what you did to remain focused through the study and exams, while working?