KayPam

Hello.

I am currently wondering the following :
I am studying distance ATPL in English with a French school.
I plan on not training for the CPL/IR/ME in France, I will most probably do that with an english (or at least english speaking) FTO.

Do I need to take and pass an english language proficiency test ?
If not, which ICAO level will a CPL/MEIR skill test in english give me ?

Thanks

paulc95

My situation is quite unique but my ambition and dream remains the same as many other people.

22 from the United Kingdom, and like many others I too dream of becoming an airline Pilot.

I only really discovered this desire of mine around a year ago, it's grown ever since and it's all I can see myself doing as a career now despite the fact that i'm currently studying a BSc degree in Computing. I plan to see the course through and graduate with first class honours as a nice paying back up plan, and it will also help in demonstrating I can work to degree level and achieve the best results.

I am however from a poor family, below the breadline and the family home is even under threat due to parents splitting and a father who is refusing to sell when my mother owns half. Sticky situation, but i'm in student accommodation, and my journey on my own into the world starts here...

After this degree I am willing to sacrifice what's necessary, relocate, do anything to make this dream achievable. I understand License modules and flight tuition, and the hours will total upwards of £100,000 which is what I don't have.

I plan on getting a first in University, touching up a few GCSE's to add to that, in Science and Physics, to apply to any and all Airline Sponsorship programs that may be taking on at the time in 2 years. This will therefore be a good application with good grades in GCSE, equivalent to 3 a-levels with a level 3 extended diploma in ICT, and then a first class honours in Computing. So I will try to maximise my chances that way.

I also plan on going for my Grade 1 medical at Gatwick in London before I graduate just to be sure I'm eligible.

My question is after giving a brief background about me is...

What are all the actions I could take towards becoming an Airline Pilot from now till I graduate? Who should I network with? What can I study in the meantime that will be beneficial to know to help when I finally study for my license.

How could I acquire the funds if I had to pay for a flight training program myself? What would you do to achieve this dream in my situation?

I'm willing to sacrifice 100% of my time and effort for this, and don't care how long it'll take me to become a first officer.

I'm mostly looking for advice on the best steps towards this dream given my financial circumstance, as I haven't got rich parents to put me through flight school.

This is something I really really want to do with my life, I know i'll love it.

I have also heard rumors of people going off to Africa for bush pilot courses and ending up getting hired after that, recommendations of the cheapest ATPL programs in whatever country would be welcome, as well as any airlines that are doing sponsorship's etc

Thank you.

SeGMaN

Hello everybody,

I am 26 years old, have bachelor degree, good command on English, lack of math and physique knowledge.

I always wanted to be a pilot but I didnt have enough economic condition, now I kinda have it at least for PPL, If I get the PPL by myself I will be able to convince my family to support me for further steps.

My greatest dream would be a pilot for Emirates someday.

I would greatly appreciate and value if you guys give me some advice.

First question, As I mentioned I am lack of math and physique knowledge, do you think it d be too much hard for me to keep up with classes.

Second, where can I get the best price and performance PPL course on earth.My budget 10-12k $

Thank you

somedayillfly

Hi SegMAn,

great that you want to pursue your life dream.

I don't have the experience myself, but I have heard from various pilots around the globe that Emirates isn't as glamorous as it looks at first sight. There's an interesting topic going on this very forum, which is a must-read if you're interested in flying for Emirates.

I would recommend to follow a course for math and physics. ATPL theory is not rocket science, but definitely challenging if you don't have the right knowledge.

You'll easily find a place where you can get your PPL for way under 10-12k. A couple flight schools in the States (don't have names) offer a PPL Course for just above 5000$.

As of your age: You're 26. By the time you got the right papers, you'll be 28. Won't say you're too old, but it's definitely something to ask around for.

Hope this helps a bit.

SeGMaN

Thank you somedayillfly, above 5000 sounds reasonable, about Emirates ,I dont know all details but it all depends on perspective and your country of origin i guess, i have so close people around me who are cabin crew for Emirates, they seem fine and I know pilots are provided so many benefits. If you pm me some school name, it d be much appreciated.

Hustlerkid

Hello all...
Am 22 year old now and currently holding a diploma in bank service from a uk distant education university.Am planing to migrate to uk looking for job and at the same time to start my career in aviation.
Am from a middle class family, i can only dream of being a pilot. so i decided to move to uk(As one on of my relative works thre in a private company) To find a job and start my aviation career.

As Atpl intergrated is very expensive am planning to choose a very long process for obtaing my Frozen ATPL. Here is what am planing to do after getting a medical certificate and goin through all tests.i need a proper suggetion or openions about it from you all.

1)first private pilot license(both theory and practical)

2)Night rating

3)Instrument rating

4)Multi engine rating

5)Multi crew operation rating

6)CPL theory/with Aviation English .

7)Cpl practical
8)instructor rating(to become an inatructor and build my flying hours)

9)ATPL Theory

This is what am planing to go for.

I know its a very long process and can take up to 3 years or more for it.And may be spending extra money too.But as i dont have enough money and not in a situation wre i can take a bank loan.
Ok..so here are my doubts.

1)in the above mention 9 steps is every thing choosed in the correct way that it is suppose to be?

2)did i miss any rating am suppose to take?

3)If i get a EASA issued license will i or what i should do if i want to apply for job outside europe.

4)Any suggetions for affordable and good quality  flying academy in uk?

5)Do uk provide education/student loan to an expat student(i mean a student from outside europe)
6)what is Type rating and in what should i get a320 or boeing? At what satge i should be obtaing my Type rating?

7)what is line training?

8)Majority of the airlines prefer to hire pilots with atleast 1500 to minimum 3000 hours.So how can i build my hours.

9)At last how long will i take to complete these as its its budget build plan.and how much will it coast an average in total.
Is it  goin to be expensive than intergrated ?

Thanks in Advance.

KayPam

Hello
Not all answers for now but :
9) ATPL theory is usually done just after PPL and night flying. It is actually a prerequisite to have passed theoretical exams before IR and CPL training. You could take IR theory and CPL theory but nobody does that. There must be a very good reason why.

6) A type rating is a specific training to fly on a specific aircraft. Every large aircraft or aircraft family (such as 318/319/320/321) has a specific type rating. I would recommend paying for a type rating not before you're hired for a job and you're 100% certain you'll fly and be paid thanks to that type rating

7) Line training is the usual training you get when you first start working for an airline. It consists in a few tens of hours (up to 100 I think) and flights during which you'll be trained in order to become a fully autonomous first officer.
Some disreputable companies will sell you block of hours, which they call line training as well, but it is essentially P2F : pay to fly, which also means pay to work.

8) You need to get a job to get your first 500 hours on large aircraft. You need 500 hours on large aircraft to get a job. No easy solution. A few airlines will however consider your application with little hours (Wizzair for instance)

pominaus

Hi all, I've been reading these forums for about a week now, so just wanted to say thanks for all the great info - I've already learned a lot. The point of this post is just to put down in writing and commit to my dream. I'm thinking it will probably take me around 6 years to be able to switch careers, but I'm treating this post as my first step.

I'm 31.5 years old, from the UK now living in Australia. For me, the dream started in my early teens. I'd grown up with my grandfather's stories of being a navigator in the RAF in the war, but had never thought about it. In secondary shool I joined the RAF cadets. This is where it really began. We were an inner-city school in south London in the 90's. Nobody had much money, so we qualified for an RAF scheme where you could fly for free. It cost £2 to go on the trip - £1 for petrol there, £1 for petrol back, just be at the school at lik 6am on a weekend lol.

For that reason most of us didn't want to go, but my dad made me. For £2 I flew for an hour and I was hooked. We got to do aerobatics as well as flight training. Over the next three years I got about 18 hours under my belt (I think - it's been 16 years!), mostly in the then new Grob Tutor's. I was going to be a pilot. Then I found out at 15 years old I had just ticked over into too tall (6'4''). It was over.

I'd never really wanted to fly in a war, I struggled with that a lot... the RAF had always just been the route to commercial flying that was open to me. When it shut there was just no way flying could even hope of being paid for, and that was it. Since leaving school I've worked mainly in hospitality and retail, flying was just a dream I had as a kid.

Over the last few year's I've been studying computer science in my spare time using online courses. I've also gotten married and moved to my wife's country, Australia. Now my circumstances are changing. I'm moving into a new field (Developer) that will actually pay enough for me to save, and in 3 year's I'll qualify for a FEE-HELP loan that I could use to become a commercial pilot. From almost nowhere, the dream is back alive!

So the plan: As I say, I think this is going to be at least 6 years. The next year will just be saving and researching everything I can. Then two years Of saving and flying as much as I can afford. I'd like to get my RPL and be on my way to my PPL in this time. By the fourth year I should know a lot more, and know whether financing myself through my CPL or taking on a flight course (and around A$90,000 in student debt) is the right choice for me (This would be the first year I'd be eligible for FEE-HELP). Either way, I'd be looking at 2 years to get my CPL, from which I'd want to head toward instructing. Currently, to help me towards that goal, I'm planning to support myself through the 2 full time years of CPL and instructor training by becoming a part time driving instructor. I think that would easily fit around the hours, and help me develop soft skills that I could use to get an instructor position that's closer to home.

Phew, that's it. That's my promise to myself. It'll be a long time until I'm flying for an airline, but for the first time in half my life it actually looks possible. Wish me luck

The Scud 911

Hello everyone. I'm not really sure if I will be able to make myself clear but I'm glad there's a place like this where I can ask such a question. Any kind of input will be appriciated.

So, my dream of being a pilot and the passion for aviation began more than 10 years ago. A lot has happened up to now that I'm 22 and I still wish to go into the industry. The only thing that's holding me back is my general lack of confidence in everyday life and low self esteem. This cases me to lack focus, clearity, assertivness and I'm also easily persuaded. As I was finishing high school the realization came to me that if I were to show up at the airline interview with personal traits such as these I would most likely be rejected. Spending tens of thousands of euros to be told that made me honestly scared so I quietly backed off in a hope to find career in engineering. As I entered university my thirst to aquire knowledge and prove myself was so big that I made too big goals for myself. This mae me overwhelmed and unable to make a plan to achieve all that.

I might be going off the track here but as my education is coming to an end I'm unsure of being content in a career as an engineer. I keep noticing myself checking out airplanes and admiring them. However, in all these years at university my confidence hasn't changed. Sure I changed but just as I gained some confidence in certain parts I lost it in others.

I guess what I'm looking for is an advice if it's still worth a shot. Can I still change myself so that I, myself, would feel confident going to an interview and stepping inside of a cockpit?

pominaus

Hi there! I'm just starting out myself, so I have no wise words of aviation experience, but I have just completed my 20's, so I can give more general advice about finding the right path for you if that helps

I think what's important to remember is that you're 22 - you have a lot of time on your side, so it's not something you need to feel pressuring you right away. You're in a good place - you have a fair idea what interests you and you've just earnt a very useful and sought after degree. I also think it's normal to have a lot of doubts coming out of studies - when I was at university we used to call it 4th year blues (university was 3 years, so it's the uncertainty at the end of it) and it affected lots of us. There's also no way to really know where your engineering degree will take you. My father in law studied electrical engineering in the 70's, and was always thinking he'd get an office job somewhere like the post ofice and work his way up to a senior position and a good pension. What actually happened was he went to a job fair after graduation and got a job with a Swedish company called Ericsson. They were known for being good at making phones, so he thought "office, design phones, work way up". Actually he spent most of the next 25 years traveling the globe working on the new mobile phone technology. Similarly my cousin finished his engineering degree 2 years ago and is now on a gap year volunteering for engineers without borders in Vietnam. I guess my point is, you have the qualification, and you never know - I've had a lot of jobs, honestly the one's I've enjoyed and the one's I've hated really haven't been necessarily related to the field. My advice would be give it a go, at the very least it could be a 5 year job to pay for flying, or it could turn out you love it and the shine wore off flying... I just think it's important to see where that could go.


Well, I've never applied to an airline, but yeah, I wouldn't think that would be a great cover letter, but what is important is you've identified your weaknesses. You know how long it takes some of us to become aware of ours? I'll be a little ageist/patronising here, so I do apologise, but I honestly believe some of those traits come with the time in life you find yourself in. Easily persuaded? That's 90% of people under 25 I know. I think you'll find you will change beyond measure over the next few years. And that's from personal experience. When I think of myself 9 years ago to today I'm almost a different person. That said, Low self esteem is always a tough one, and I'm no psychologist. It can affect any of use at any time, but I've also seen people go through great times in their life following lows just through small changes. Again - none of this needs to cause you to feel pressure right now.

Which career to go into.. that's a toughie, and really nobody else can answer that. I think you've been really brave acknowledging some pretty tough feelings online and really those are most important. You want to fly, you have a degree... ultimately both are doorways you can explore and they aren't mutually exclusive. What really matters is the feelings you have that are making you unhappy. Personally I'd probably try both doors and see how they make you feel.

Flying, like engineering could take you anywhere - it could be you enjoy recreational flying, but find doing it for a job takes the fun away. Or maybe you'll find out you love to teach flying to new pilots and not want to deliver passengers/cargo from A-B. Or maybe it'll be you like flying solo and you enjoy small regional work. I think most of us going in to flying are looking to get to that first officer seat on a commercial jet, but at the same time when we're starting out we know nothing about doing the job day to day.

Finally I wouldn't worry too much about those airline interviews. They won't come up until many many hours of flying, and by then you will be a pilot in your own right. My advice for flying is you've wanted to do this for so long, you still want to do it, you have to try it for yourself or you'll always regret it. But do yourself a favour and take the pressure off of it having to be a career. I don't know if you've flown yet, but if not, do one of those experience days, or and introductory pack and go from there. At the end of the day, how can any of us truly know for sure if we want to spend our lives flying for 10's of thousands of hours when we haven't flown for 10? Once you start flying, I think it'll be a fairly natural decision tree to take you where you want to be with flying.

Ultimately My personal belief is if you go into this wanting to reach an airline and fly for 10 hours, realise it isn't for you, and stop - you haven't failed. If you fly for 500 hours and never get a CPL, but are perfectly happy flying on the weekends, you haven't failed. If you fly for 2000 hours and get yourself all the way to the interview and get nocked back, you still haven't failed or wasted the money if you've loved doing it.

It's only if, say you've flown for 30 hours, but still don't really like it, and then go and pay up front for a CPL course because you started this so have to see it through or equivalent that it's wasting your money.

Trying something you've wanted to do for 10 years will never be a waste of money. Spending 10's of thousands upfront for something you're not sure of might end up being.

Ultimately my advice is take it slow, and fly. Best of luck, I hope to see you up there one day

Hustlerkid

so,sir you are suggesting me to do cpl training and ir after getting my ppl with night rating..

first-ppl/night rating

second-cpl training/ir/multi crew/multi engine

third-Atpl Theory..

is there any difference between cpl theory and atpl theory?

anything else which i have to do?

KayPam

Like I said just before, you shouldn't wait until after CPL training to take ATPL theory
Why ?

ATPL theory takes 9-12 months for a normal person with a normal rythm. Which gives you an idea about the volume of it.
So say you pass your IR exam. It is valid for one year.
One year within which you will be doing MCC training and re-learning ATPL theory. So you haven't even finished your training and you already need to spend about 1k more to renew your IR rating.

Plus, you have to learn CPL theory and IR theory before your CPL/IR
So basically you will be doubling the amount of theory that you have to learn

Not exactly double because it will be easier to learn the second time, but you will have to learn all the details twice. Which is not very rational.


ATPL theory is CPL theory + IR theory + some other little things

somedayillfly

So I've been looking for a flight school of quite while now. Brought my search down to two schools.

Flight school 1 - total of 209 flight hours (Single prop/Twin/sim)
Flight school 2 - total of 251 flight hours (Single prop/Twin/sim)

What is the value of those extra hours at flight school 2? The difference in price is 22k. Worth it or not?

Ryanaf

Hi all,

I'm just starting out and wanted to ask if anyone has any good/bad experiences training for a PPL (A) with any of these flight schools. They're the ones closest to where I live:

VVB at Elstree (40mins)
Stapleford (1hr)
Turweston (1hr 15)

It's quite a daunting task knowing where to start and I think I'll probably visit a couple first to see what the atmosphere is like.

I want to go the modular route into commercial flying. I'm mid thirties now and have a well paid job, low mortgage with lots of time off (why would I give it up I hear you ask!) and it seems less of a risk for someone in my situation. I.e If I don't get a job straight away, it wouldn't be a catastrophe financially.

My plan is to get a PPL and then look at CTC for distance ground school and then perhaps their modular flight training modules (£34k) ish.

Hour building, I'm not sure what the most cost effective way of achieving this is yet so any recommendations would be great. CTC recommended I go to Cyrpus!

Sorry if I'm going over old ground with this post and I do hope this forum will welcome me with open arms for the daunting journey ahead.

mftx7jrn

Ryanaf,

If you are going to go modular, I would suggest having a chat with either Bristol GS or CAPT first. Not got anything against CTC- their Integrated package is probably one of the best worldwide, but the other 2 G/S providers are fantastic for the modular route. They also have great modular flight school contacts. Good luck.

Ryanaf

Thanks guys. I'll add Cranfield to the list too.

The reason I was looking at CTC for modular is simply for their reputation in the industry. I've visited their facilities and found the staff to be very helpful. All modular students have the option of post CPL assessment to joint their employment pool which is a big draw. Having someone like CTC almost fighting your corner and trying to place you into work (successfully or not) seems a good investment.

Of course doing it for a fraction of the price is an option too. I'm not fully versed in how the industry works yet, and how to apply for jobs etc so I'm a little naive to say the least.

Alex Whittingham

I wouldn't recommend Cyprus for hours building without more research. It is a small island with only two airfields which are reasonably close to each other. The haze layer in summer also provides no visual horizon. This old thread reveals more concerns, but may be out of date.

mftx7jrn

Bristol GS are part of the Wings Alliance, which may be of significant interest when considering contacts, links, flight schools etc. Phil at CAPT is also very well connected in this respect. CTC are world-class, no doubt about it, but there are other modular options as discussed above.

Ryanaf

Thanks guys for the help, much appreciated. I decided to have a trial lesson at Turweston and then I'll probably visit Stapleford. So many to choose from, those 2 are on the approved list with the CAA so I suppose the key is finding an instructor that I gel with.

Evanelpus

Whatever became of the OP, artie711. It would have been a courtesy for him to keep us posted, especially as his post was made a sticky.