ScottNX

(First post!)

I'm 19 and I've wanted to be an airline pilot for years. At the minute, I'm studying a fairly prestigious politics degree which includes a year's worth of work experience working in Parliament in the UK (I live in the UK). Until a few months ago, the dream was in the back of my mind. I put myself off pursuing it when I was around 16 because I knew that my parents wouldn't be able to fund it. This is still the case.

Yesterday, I had my first ever flight in a GA plane. It was a trial flight from Sherburn Aero Club in a PA-28. Absolutely loved every minute of it and I didn't want to come down. I had a smile on my face for the whole ride and I wish I could go back up today! But obviously, money's the biggest problem...

I'm doing fairly well financially as a student. I don't spend any money at all on going out and drinking at uni so I'm doing okay compared to most. Obviously, I can't fund flying on this money though as it's not a constant stream of money. Yesterday, although it only lasted an hour, was the decider that I want to pursue my licenses, and if possible to pursue a career in aviation. But I'm stuck with that money problem, and I don't know what I can do.

Overall, there's a few questions I have in mind:

1) Would it be possible to fund it during university, or should I wait 'til I graduate? Basically, does anyone have any experiences in this case?
2) If I choose to wait until I graduate, will it be then too late to pursue a career as a pilot? I know there are many variables!
3) What's the general age at which it's seen as being too late to go into airlines?

Also, would my degree actually help me out in aviation? I know for sure that I won't drop out as I would like the backup of a degree. But my year in Westminster etc. can't hurt my CV, can it?

Thanks in advance.

Hasan7

Hello everyone! I am finally following my dream and hope to join a flight school in preferably the next 3 months but before I choose my destination I need to minimize the chances of me being an an employed pilot like many I know. Would it be wiser to join the EASA internship course in the European flight centre where you get all the necessary licenses FAA & EASA and build around 1000 hours more or less (if given a job). Or the second plan is to train in australia and then upon completion try to instruct or get any flying job, but this plan as I think is risky because and correct me if I'm wrong pilots and flight instructors do not fall under the skilled workers in australia. Keep in mind that (frozen) atpl is the minimum requirement to the airlines in my country and region, but of course there are hundreds waiting for a job with low hours so I need to build a few hundred hours maybe a thausand to get ahead. Which path do you think will work out better? I'm open to other suggestions as well I don't mind flying anywhere as long as i fly. And oh please don't suggest Canada as it seemed great but i have tried to get a visa twice and they wasted 6 months of my life only to refuse with no obvious reason, their process was VERY slow. Appreciate your help.

teteay

@markevans
I came on this forum, because i'm looking for clues on what flight schools and and where i can go, been researching on different school in SA,but i'm very happy that you made mention of Airborne Aviation, can you tell more about the flight smh and what is the cost implication of doing PPL with them,I would love if we can communicate as regards this as its will make my decision making on what flight school to attend a lot easier,
thanks

Glasgowflying

Hi guys new member derek from Glasgow.

To cut a long story short I have been interested in aviation since school but not coming from a background where becoming an airline pilot was thought to be possible financially etc it was always on the back burner with memorable conversations with parents and careers advisers telling me you can't do that!

Basically just now I'm a self employed heating and ventilation engineer about to embark on training to get my ppl first off and then onto most probably a modular course to gain my commercial licence.

I've managed to save up the cost of the training up over the past year and a bit so have just over £50k to invest in my training.

Can anyone give me advice of flying schools please ?

Efato75kts

Alright ,this will be a long ,long ,long road that I am prepared to take but it will be worth it and that feeling of doing it all through hard work will be much sweeter.Fast forward 7-8 years from today ,I see my self with my fATPL.

At 21 years old ,I have 3 kids a,3 step sons and a very supportive other half all in one roof.
I am currently working full time ,self employed doing security work and furniture delivery.I literally have no off days which means I end up with just over 2k a month. Some bills paid ,cash saved and reduced family time is the result.

No holidays ,fancy clothes or other treats that can all always come later in life.

I have around 30 hours of PPL training ,solo done and savings of 5k to get me through my PPL with the 6 exams left .I am hoping to be done by February - April depending on the weather and aiming to fly 10 hours a month.I think it is achievable.

Ideally by April I would like to have my PPL with me .In the meantime I will be saving £500+ a month until June to fund the Bristol ground school package which will cost around £3500 (test fees included)
After my PPL ,it is the ATPL theory and hour building to keep current .2 years from June 2017 I hope to have ATPL done and the 100+ hours needed to start CPL. This time frame will give me time to also put some money away for the CPL £7k at PTT Aviation which is where I intend to finish all my training.

N/B: It will probably be wise to also listen out on any fully sponsored cadet schemes such as the Aer lingus,BA ones etc.

I am estimating the CPL course to take me 3 - 4 months to complete subject to my availability and weather.By this time ,it will be nearing the end of 2019.

After CPL I will get my ME then carry on working for the next 3 years to save up for the expensive IR.
IR done ,on to the MCC and JOC.
If no opportunities come up after this then I will save again to get my instructor rating and enjoy being a pilot and a teacher till bigger doors open.

I believe it is one of the best ways to do it if you are not blessed with rich parents or other quick access avenues .
My jobs are secured as the companies I work for are very established and we are currently expanding

My advice to fellow inspiring pilots is do not get pressured when you see 18/19 year olds being offered jobs at various airlines through such and such ATO. You simply do not have to sell your grandma to become a pilot .Keep your head up ,work hard and remember if it is your ultimate dream then you will achieve it !
I am not experienced enough but I have spoken to a lot of people in the industry and as you probably already know ,it mostly about who you know.It is a small world. A close relative who is a captain could not stress how many CV`s literally end up in the bin .

Point is ,have an open mind ,train ,build your network and keep your log book clean. At least that is what I intend to do.

I will post back in April to update on my training

jamesgrainge

Good luck. However, if you are going to work for 3 years to save for the IR, would you not be better off relaxing and enjoying the experience and spreading your training out. Trying to rush it will stress you out, trust me on this, make your plan but have a life as well.

Worst case scenario! If something dreadful happened in a year or two's time how would you feel about having given everything and having very little to show for it?

portsharbourflyer

Under JAA, after finishing exams it was 18 month to do the CPL and 36 months to complete the IR, I don't think EASA have changed this? you wont be able to save for three years for the IR as your exam credits will expire. However you could do a Single Engine IR by the compentency based IR route at a lower expense to preserve your exam credits and then upgrade it later to a Multi IR later on. I would recommend for the CPL to try and take a month off to finish it, doing it part time will drag it out and more than likely you will end up doing more hours to complete it. Plus don't under estimate trying to do training along side your busy schedule.

The other thing to consider is getting your first flying job will involve relocating and / or staying away. It isn't easy to uproot children for a short time and first officer pay is rarely enough to pay mortgage in one location and rent in another. Completing the training was not the difficult part, finding a job not as such the difficult part either. Getting a job that pays enough and fits with family life, that is tricky.

Good luck; btw self employed security work can fit well around part time flight instructing. The other thing to consider is you could do CPL-FI, start instructing and building hours before doing your IR.

FlyANA

This is going to go down like a lead balloon. But if you've got three kids then how about taking that money and providing a great life for them, especially through the formative years. Get a PPL and a decent land based job, fly for fun and do family holidays!

FlyANA

Coming to the end of an MPl with sponsorship and employment, but, I've been in this industry a long time and I've seen it from all sides. Just playing devils advocate that being in the pointy end isn't the be all and end all.

ABZ777

I don't think this is correct - I believe you have 36 months from passing your last ATPL theory exam to get both the CPL and IR.

rudestuff

Whilst it's admirable that you want to save up to pay for everything - gaps of 3 years are only going to make things harder. By all means save up to get your PPL, hour building and ATPL exams. But don't think ATPL's will be easy - especially if you are working full time. I timed out on my first set and basically gave up work for 3 months to get them done. If you do your ME course, then wait 3 years to start your IR, you'll end up having to do it all again anyway. Best to group everything together as much as possible - use the MEP training as a warm-up for MEIR (You don't need to pass the MEP test, only the IR test!) I would recommend saving to get hour building and ATPLs done, then borrow the last £20k for CPL/IR. You'll get into the game 3 years earlier and have a career 3 years longer. By the time you retire, those final 3 years salary will have paid for your second home in Spain. Put it on a 0% card, it's not like you'd have to mortgage the house. You have 18 months from your first ATPL exam to finish them, then 3 years from the last exam to get both CPL and IR.

SeventhHeaven

Honestly, you're 21 years old, already responsible for a wife an three (!) kids, and not educated. Do you REALLY think it's a sound financial investment for yourself or your family?

Also, rethink your timeline. You're much much better off saving until you can fund the entirety of your course in one go, to minimize downtime and out-of-currency expenses, and to make your CV stronger.

Have you thought about doing this as a hobby only? No shame in it ..

wiggy

Leaving aside we have absolutely no idea what the job market will look like in 7-8 years so far, so good...

Ok.

You might think that, having had kids myself I think in all honesty you are going to have trouble with holding that line for 7 years plus, (especially if the kids are young). What happens post the fATPL - Will it all hold together if you end up working for a company that requires you to be flexible about where you are based?

I know there's the standard line of "you've got to be in it to win" but I'd suggest if you haven't done so just for a while forget "living the dream" and sit down for really long chat with your airline pilot relative and grill him/her on the realities of the job - not the rose tinted specs version.. I mean the realities of pay scales, early starts, late finishes, split shifts, possible commuting/basing.

If you do that and still go ahead with your plan then in all honesty good luck.

Efato75kts

That is a good point ,I will be best of taking time off and finish off CPL when ready and as some have suggested borrow money for the IR to be within the timescale.

I agree getting the job that pays enough and fits well with my life will be the biggest hurdle .All I can do is stay positive and cross one bridge at a time.
Thanks for your sound advice

jamesgrainge

I partially agree. However if it's something you want to do there is no turning off the desire. And for those of us who work to fund it and go down the hard route, the desire is often impossible to ignore. Aviation is a beautiful mistress with a tendency to be a cold hard bitch capable of heartbreak.

Personally I think this should be more about asking the questions to get the OP to think about his path, not dissuading him.

Efato75kts

Ofcourse it is a sound investment .I do not intend to get in to a debate about wha is the definition of stuccess.As far as I am aware different paths can take you to the same destination.Just a difference in specific individual cirmustances is what influences us to pursue other ways of being successful.
Perhaps your idea of a great investment is having a degree ? Which depending on the course it can last anything from 3-6 (masters,PHD ).Again you can aslo question one who goes down that route ,including the loans from University ,time ,family etc .Ofcourse with no guarantee of a job.
I was achieved A star in GSCE Mathematics ,Physics,Chemistry ,Biology and English Literature .The rest were C graded.I also hold a BEng in Aeronautical Engineering having graduated when I was 20. A qualified cupping therapist to add to that.
I must say you sound a little bit judgemental but my apologies if it is not the case .

With regards to saving to do it all at once , I will be happy to have my PPL first ,ATPL and 150+ hours and end up borrowing for the IR and CPL .I have always been a go getter and very positive minded and doors will open !

SeventhHeaven

Success is not guaranteed either, especially (unfortunately) more so for modular guys.

I imagine being an FI is pretty much a no go either, considering your financial commitments to your spouse&kids

Efato75kts

I appreciate your concerns
and advice .Do not get me wrong kids are very happy spending every second we can together.Apart from major holidays they have a cheerful lifestyle.I am adamant I have it in balance .
Furthermore it is vital you have a supportive spouse and work as a team.

The crunch ,as you say will be about split shifts ,late finishes etc which in all honesty is a valid consideration as I think many pilots have been or are in this situation.

cloudbash

Good luck - the journey to a fATPL isn't easy. For some finding a job is difficult for others relatively simple.

If it's something you want to do then why not? You'll see a mixed bag of comments on pprune, some of which are supportive and some not. Take them all with a pinch of salt. Only you know how capable you are and the impact this may have on your family....whether positive or negative.

Efato75kts

Exactly the point I wished someone made .I do not see why would one discourage someone to pursue their passion just because there is a chance the he/she might of those who find it difficult to get that first job.