SamGuichelaar

Hi everyone,

Like many others here, I am looking to become a pilot. It's the only realistic thing I can see myself doing in 20 years and still enjoying it.


I have been looking on this and many other forums for the better part of two months now, and still don't know exactly what the best course of action would be for me.

I thought this didn't fit in any other thread, so I'm sorry if it does.

First, let me tell a bit about myself,

I am a Dutch 19 year old guy, who has been interested in Aviation ever since I was 4.

I have the Medical clearance I need, my knowledge of the English language is enough and my Math skills are sufficient too.

I joined a local air club when I was 12 and spend about 30 hours in single engine Cessna's. I do not have a high school physics degree, but if it's required I will get it within a few months.

I don't want to fly airbus, or any other plane with a sidestick. Eventually I would like to fly a 747, after a few years of flying smaller aircraft. I'll fly anything from a turboprop to a bombardier to a regular 737. (I'd even fly old soviet stuff if I got the opportunity) I don't really care if I fly cargo or passengers. I just want to fly a multiengine aircraft.


I am looking to join a pilot training outside of the Netherlands, because we are amongst the most expensive countries when it comes to pilot training, and I just want to get away from here.

Basically, I'm looking for a pilot training in the US, Australia, New Zealand, or Europe.

Someone suggested I should go to the US, get an FAA license and convert it to EASA, but basically every post on this forum discourages this approach.


Another person told me to get an ATP(A) at Ibertour in Spain, for about €38.000, but again, this forum wasn't too positive about this training.


So far what I would like most, is to get an EASA license in the Scandic countries, or get an license in New Zealand/Australia. Obviously, I want this to be as cheap as possible, but I also understand cheap often means low quality in the aviation industry.

I can get an KLM Academy pilot training (+loan) in the Netherlands for €120.000, and if this is the best course of action, I will do that, but I have to believe there are cheaper ways to get that holy piece of paper.



So summing up, I want to get an EASA or the New Zealand/Australian equivalent, to fly any multi engine aircraft, no matter if it's cargo or passengers. Preferably I would like the pilot training to be modular. (Integrated if airlines REALLY do prefer it)


I would join the RAF, but only 1 in 73 people get hired at the moment so I'm not betting on it.

Is there anyone who can give me any advice in any direction? I'm a bit lost...

skyship007

Don't dream about being a pilot, wake up and try and live in the real world (Not the virtual one)!

Get a real education and a real job where they pay you, not a newbie flying one where you pay them!

If you are a smoker or pill player who fancies themselves on Farcebook or in Utub clips posing in your new airline pilots uniform (They even dress up the trainee pilots in school), do us and the passengers a real favour, just buy the uniform and keep your parents money for more serious things, as the price of good quality drugs is increasing.
I know that cos my P2 turned up a few days ago and was still sober and not even stoned as usual. He even managed to stay awake long enough for us to take off!

gaveasky

My personal story is that I'm getting ready to do an EASA course with a school called 2Fly (4 months in the US and the rest in Spain).
From this course I will gain everything I need to fly in an airline +255 hours.

So, now I need a type rating and a lot of hours. I heard that some places accept you with such a little amount of hours in a sort of cadet programme, where you gain the type rating and hours to join the airline.

Has anyone got any resources/ideas for me? What should I do when I have completed the course?

Link to the course if anyone is interested.

kimsmith

Many universities offering degree courses and licenses in aviation for Commercial Airline Pilots in USA. My brother just completed his Associate of Applied Science Degree in Fixed Wing and now he got good opportunities from the campus itself. The primary focus for any major airlines is the practical exposure and the aircraft model you are trained into.

jean_howard

From my personal experience I would say that CTC does not guarantee you a job at the end of your course. At best you'll have to fork out over the odds money for a type rating and then you'll be "employed" for 6 months at pittance wages and then turfed out onto the street again.

Capt T

Hi there,

I was hoping if someone who has knowledge or who has experience going through there ATPL exams could assist?

I am going to start training very soon. For the PPL section I am going to work whilst completing it. The second part, which is hour building and studying for the exams I wish to do whilst working. Assuming that I will start this section in September time and will do very little flying because of the weather and also that I will be working 4 days a week. How long should I be expecting to study? I.e. How long before I should be comfortable enough to start sitting exams?

Thanks in advance,
Thomas

Martin_123

there are so many moving parts involved that any answer given here will be just a wild guess or someone else's experience which may not be applicable to you.

First things first - you assume you will have your ppl by September - which is a very realistic objective as long as the school has planes and instructors available and you are equipped with the right attitude/aptitude and cash. Should you pick a small school with only 2 - 3 planes, or perhaps a larger school that's very popular meaning it might be difficult to get the slots you need - your plan might come apart right there and then.

Once you have your PPL, for the ATPL you need to study for about 2-3 hours a day on average for about 3 months per module, at least that's the rate I'm doing it right now. If you only work 4 days a week, you might do it quicker. Again this is one of those things where the next guy will come and tell you he did all 14 subjects in 2 months followed by the next guy who will call him a liar and try to convince you that ATPLs are the hardest thing in the world and it will take you 2 years to get them done.

To be honest, I wouldn't worry too much about the timelines at your stage. Go chase that ppl first and figure out whether you even like flying or not. Statistically speaking the odds are you will drop the whole aviation thing just after your first solo

Capt T

Interesting - thanks for the reply.

It's something I am definitely perusing. I want to continue working whilst studying and I was hoping that the timing of the PPL finishing would give me 7 months in which to complete the studying. Obviously, I don't want to leave myself not enough time to do it and then lose another year because of the weather....

Martin_123

this reminds me of a conversation I heard at the shop the other day. A little girl was crying to get a certain box of cookies. The conversation with her mother went on something like this:

-Why do you want these cookies? They don't look very healthy
-Because they're tasty
-How do you know they're tasty? You've never had them
-Because they have Elisa from Frozen on it..

sigh...

determination is a good thing obviously but I can't help to wonder where's this confidence coming from? Looking at your post history, you've been in this place before, years go by and you haven't even started your ppl. I know I'm being rough on you now, but trust me, I'm hear to help you to sort yourself out - are you passionate about flying as a process or just the label that comes with a pilot uniform?

Don't put yourself in a foolish position, take one step at the time. Don't worry about what will happen/when it will happen, just get on with it and the answers will come to you themselves. In my fairly short experience I've seen guys coming up with fingers in the air announcing how they're going to be next Aer Lingus captains only to drop off somewhere just after 5th lesson, between the PPL theory exams or when the NAV section begins.. happens all the time. Sort out your medical and go flying. That's all you need to think about.

jedw0015

Hello all, i`m approaching the end of secondary school meaning I am currently choosing my A level choices. To what degree do these choices effect my chances of being a pilot. I have been told that choosing maths/science based subjects can be favorable, i`m not particularly gifted in these subjects so I think I would not do very well at A level at them. Does this matter or should I choose a different career path. Thanks

Spitfire LF Mk.lX

I am a year ahead of you and while I cannot give you a huge amount of information on what airlines are looking for, I will say there is plenty of information about it on here. When you move onto A level it is a major step up from GCSE, especially in maths which you mentioned. Physics would be the favorable science however usually colleges like this to be linked with a maths A level.
Make sure you get good grades in subjects that are less related than fail subjects like maths and physics. If you look on BA cadet schemes etc, they do specify minimum grades however there is no required subject.
F.Y.I
I am doing Maths, Physics, Economics and Electronics
I imagine I will be dropping Maths after my AS is complete.

BravoSierraKilo

As the title says I want to go fro PPL to ATPL frozen....

I will need my CPL, ME / IR , MCC , ATLP and I suppose a few hours on a 737 sim will help

It will cost me approx 30k+ to get the above and the another 30K+ if an airline decided to let me get my 737 type rating.

So after chatting to a few pilots and looking at Irish airline websites the above is the bare minimum to apply. I was told while I am getting the type rating I wont be paid but some say I will. Also I will be on a pretty crappy wage until i hit 1500hrs+ and so on

Now, I am not in it for the money and if I can pay to keep a roof over my head and feed myself I'll be one happy Pilot

So what are your views...Do I go to ATPL and risk not getting employed or do I stick with my PPL and buy a sexy 1991 SOCATA TB-10 TOBAGO

guni83

Hi all, I am very new here and need advice from other pilots.
I first started flying at a local flying school in 1997 (Sydney) because I wanted to be a pilot ever since I was little. I only got to my second solo flight and had to stop due to circumstances.

Since then, I spent the first decade attending to other priorities and the second decade thinking it is now too late for me to go back. Almost 20 years later, I have this determination again and a very supportive wife who is telling me to go for it, but I am now 32 years old, have a 3 year old daughter and a stable full time job.

I should be able to fund myself through, CPL, ME and IRO using the combination of our savings and VET Fee Help. Whilst I study, I could probably get a moonlight job somewhere to generate small income whilst my wife continues with her full time job.

However, I don't think we will be left with too much balance in the bank by the end of it and I am not sure how much more money I need to be taking into consideration for supporting myself for the first type rating and to land on the first job.

I will give everything to reach my dream, but I am not willing to make my wife and the daughter go through a struggle with little hope for entering an airliner and need to have some realistic expectations before I can make the decision.

If I complete my training, but find that I have no money left to pay for more hours and type rating, is there many examples of other pilots landing on a job without needing to come up with a small fortune?

I am not expecting that I will make as much as I do now immediately (I ended up in the world of power points and conference calls), just need to see our family through without struggling, hopefully still together as family

Any opinions, advises, tips would be very helpful.

TheOne83

Hi Guni83

Not an easy decision... what can we say other than you have to make a choice: A)Conference calls & Power Point or B)Flying career


I imagine you know your options well but since I don't read anything about it on your post I have to ask...

-Have you taken a look at the option of doing a modular course instead of a full time integrated ATPL course? if so what is your preference?
-Costs differences between integrated and modular course?
-Perhaps flying weekdays after work or weekends suits your life better together with a modular course if you can keep your job?
-Is your current employer willing to get you your job back after you are done with your training if you are absent for some time?
-What about a Medical certificate class I? Do you have one?
-Bank loans, can you get any extra financial help?

Don't get a type rating with out a job secured, it's like playing a lottery game. If you get a B737 rating who says that the company that hires you won't offer you a job on A320 or ATR72, given you pay for that rating. What I am trying to say with this is that you can end up paying for 2 type ratings instead of one or in the best case scenario the Company will take care of that. Some people may agree on this others maybe not. One thing is for sure, you have to decide what is best for you and your family and follow your dreams.

"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." -Sydney J. Harris

guni83

Thank you TheOne83, this is a very powerful quote and a moving one.

The reason I was looking at full time was because the course qualifies as a full student loan, which means no money from my savings up front, although I am going to end up with a lot of debt.

But now, I do agree that a modular model may be more suitable for me. I kept thinking that I am running out of time, but I think taking another year or so longer is better than taking my family through a financial hardship. The only loan I have at the moment is my car loan, I have no other debt or mortgage, so I could potentially borrow a little more if I had to.
This way, I keep my experience and skills to go back to if the career in aviation doesn't work out, and I can continue to put food on the table while I study.

I guess the depressing thing is, when I first started flying back in 1997, companies were still willing to invest in teaching wannabe pilots, but it looks like everything has changed now and I need to fund myself until I have all the requirements to get in. I try not to, but keep thinking what it would have been like if I never stopped.

I have 3 meetings scheduled with instructors from different schools this weekend, hopefully get some advises from them and see which of them suits my circumstance best.

TheOne83

Best of luck Guni83! I don't think you are running out of time, yet... when I started in my class we had people aged 42 in my school, to give you an idea.

scavenger69

Hi everyone.

I was thinking on giving it another shot.
Im 30. I hold a South American ICAO PPL with 500hr SE, class 1 medical, UE passport and whatnot. Im back in Europe now, looking for a good school to help me with the conversion of the PPL and the CPL+IR+ME training and ATPL theory. What would you recommend? I dont have a lot of cash, just enough to fly a few hours, buy a few books and sit for the exams. While this is a very hard industry to get into, I want to give it another shot. What do you think?

RedBullGaveMeWings

You don't need to convert your ICAO PPL to obtain an EASA CPL and ME/IR as far as I know.
You can start studying for your ATPL's immediately and then you could attend a CPL-ME/IR right after that.

Look at Bartolini Air in Poland. They're very good. Contact Bartho Blom, he is very useful.

tomuchwork

Hi guni83. My 10 cents about your situation.

TheOne83 is very right with his statement, based on that I did already a lot of decissions in my flying career(heck, if I don't do this now I will regret it forever) that at the end turned out to be not the best choice I could have done.
But that's the life of a pilot I guess.

The dream of being a pilot - I am sure a lot of individuals have this dream. Often they have a different idea how this pilot life really will be. Or they see some lucky guys who made it into that big outfit(put any flag carrier of your choice in here) and stay happliy ever after ;-) (and even there are some pilots who look for that "special" outfit to fulfill their dreams).
I met quiet a lot pilots that changed over from other jobs. Some even being a lawer, made double the money in his old job. And sometimes he regrets what he did. Because dealing with some lousy airline/biz jet operator sometimes goes on your nerves. They do not keep their promises, e.g. off days(which is important if you have family/kids) or a promised upgrade.
Life as a pilot is hard, full of hard choices(again, except the few lucky ones that somehow made it in that big company and enjoying their boring but rewarding flying life - and even this ones argue about seniority, pension plans, bidding, all the other not really important crap).

Depending how happy you are at your current job I would be carefully. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
You wrote that you have already a PPL, why not go slowly for a CPL/ME/IFR and find some local sidejob to "sniff" into this business a bit and gain already some hours.
You get as well in touch with some first "dubious"(normally they are) operators that usually will be always found in a pilots life.

It is always good to go for a dream, but if you have a kid and a wife it is as well very important to take care about them.
I missed so much of the precious "growing up" years of my first child, simply because my company(ies) kept me flying like crazy, sent me on never ending nightstops,...
I managed change that with our second child, but at the cost of my career by downsizing a lot.
It might be that now I finally found a good job that let me stay on my homebase AND keeps me flying on a nice aircraft. But it took me a lot of years to reach that and it is pure luck to be at the right time at the right place.
This might be the case with a normal job as well. But normally it is easier to find a new oportunity in the same area/city. With flying this usually never happens.

Have a look into your current situation, try to figure out how "badly" you really want to be a pilot and about possible changes for your family if you really walk that line. Be sure to include your wife into that and consider all worst case scenarios - I have seen enough divorces from "understanding" wifes after they realized in which situation they ended up. Not many women are very understanding if the husband might be away for 2 weeks in a row(yes, as well that can happen, my previous job was like that). It does not help if you are afterwards there for 12 days if you are needed in your "away" time.

Lots of things to consider....Good luck with your life and decission!

jamesgrainge

From a perspective of someone who is not a pilot yet, but has started the same road and reading replies with interest I have this question, if you answer yes the same as me then your answer is obvious.

Some mornings I have roughly 5 blissful seconds where I think of nothing but the fact I'm alive and have no worries. Then all of a sudden my brain switches on and I begin to think of how I'm going to pay for my CPL etc,what I need to do, how long its going to take, how I can help myself, what is the right path throughout my training and how I can speed it up to achieve my dream of flying.

From this point on I research topics, learn my ppl books for my exams, stress that I might not be able to do the ATPL theory, how much its all going to cost, how I can make more money to speed up my training and the absolute abject fear I cannot do it, up until my head hurts and I need a break. This takes me until 5pm. After this I practice on flight sim, think some more, run through my procedures for my PPL check ride. Then when I get into bed it is the very last thing I think about and how good it will be in a few years time to be stood in that uniform flying something, and hope and pray nothing upsets this plan and dream and all the effort ive put in and will continue to put in. This happens every single day of the week, no matter what.

If this is your day then yes you want to be a pilot, more than anything in the world.