Modular Halil

Id also like to weigh in here, as you see, pilots have been made redundant, with no back up plans, they go straight from college to a big ATO get their licences and go straight into an airbus, to find out their career options are narrow, an ATPL mean virtually nothing to any job thats not a flying job IMO, hense why people say go to uni first but you can always do the course along side your flying, its personal preference. The state of the industry you're better off going to uni than train intergrated at the current moment, at least a uni course will keep you busy and you can do your PPL along side your uni course just until the industry picks up...which it will....eventually.

Blackbird0242

As someone in university studying on a pilot programme and doing my PPL at the same time, do be careful of the university you chose. The level varies vastly, especially from the US to the UK, i'm quite disappointed actually of some standards in the UK and would highly recommend not doing a pilot programme. Rather an engineering programme or a related field you enjoy. Also beware that modular costs are too still very high, especially in the UK. So at the end of the day the choice you make going into the industry varies largely on the state of the industry and how fast you are able to enter it and make your money back from it. You are a young laddy and by the time you're ready to go for a job interview we shall all hope the economy and industry is booming again. Back to topic, choose a degree you will be passionate about rather than trying to match it to aviation as it wont greatly help you as a pilot. Best of luck.

parkfell

Blackbird0242

Would I be right in saying that you were taking the CAE aptitude testing a few weeks ago, and yet you are on a University course ~ pilot program ?

I would agree with you about choosing a course which interests you, preferably not aviation related
(broadens your horizons), and not the status of ‘Underwater basket weaving’.

Blackbird0242

Yes, you would be right. During year 2 at my university you are required to sit the atpl exams as they count as credits towards your degree. CAE has a strong connection with my school but is not the only option, it is just close by and convenient as are all oxford flight schools.

Cilla1989

Hello,

I am after some advice and general guidance please, mainly on if my plan seems achievable:

I am 31 years old and I am currently in the Royal Navy (not aircrew). I have 8.5 years left to serve and I am interested in a career in aviation.

I am looking to begin training via a modular route. I am on the waiting list (awaiting the fallout from COVID) at a flying school to begin my PPL(A) followed by IR(R).

I plan to try and hour build in the local area over the next 6/7 years, but also while deployed abroad to keep it interesting and experience new scenery/views. Then around 2027/2028 start to undertake ATPL theory, Commercial Pilot Training, MEP, CB/IR, UPRT and MCC, leading to a fATPL by the time I leave the Armed Forces in 2029.

I plan on self funding throughout and I have the means to do this. I am settled in a good house with my wife and two kids. We have no current debt other than a mortgage and my wife is on a good salary as a scientist.

The advice I am seeking is... First of all, is this a realistic and sensible plan?
I believe so myself, however all the research I have done is so confusing and conflicting. I want to ensure I have not missed anything out and that I am taking the best/most cost effective route.

Next - Am I being realistic in thinking I would stand a chance at a career with an airline at the age of 40? I am hoping that my 22 years military career will be of some benefit in an interview perhaps (life experience, disciplined etc)? But age seems a real issue from what I have read, with airlines prefering 20/21 yr olds. I am particularly keen to hear from anyone who has entered the pipeline at an older age to detail any challenges/hurdles they have faced.

The biggest issue I am having and the dilemma I question every day is this... Am I wasting my time dreaming of this career and it really isn't achievable for someone my age.

I realise I am in a good position with a full military pension in my back pocket at age 40, so therefore the risk I suppose is a lot lower than some. But I always like to know what I am getting myself in to...

Any advice greatly appreciated, further expansion on any of the commercial courses also appreciated, in particular the CB/IR (very confused by this).

Also apologies if the questions I have asked have already cropped up. I have found similar but nothing substantial that has answered my questions.

Thanks

parkfell

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.

I am sure you are medically fit, but obtain a Class One Medical before your PPL phase. The ATO will be best place to answer your on going questions.
Age can be an issue, as hiring will tend to favour the younger brethren.

Probably more chance of being hired by a turbo prop operator aged 40; that will undoubtedly require a move.
Instructing is another option for late starters.

Look up EASTERN & LOGANAIR for TP operators.

Have a Plan B.

rudestuff

Loads of aviation careers start at 40. Nothing unusual there. This thread is titled "My dream" - if it really is your dream then why is there any doubt?

The most cost effective UK based approach? PPL, night, IRR, MEP, CBIR (ME), CPL (SE) in that order.

The CBIR is basically a reduced amount of training and experience before you take the IR test. The traditional 55 hour course is way too long for all but the slowest learners, which makes CBIR the preferred route, plus it avoids simulator time. Simulators are great when they're used correctly to repeat maneuvers etc, but they rarely are: They're usually used to fill out the IFR requirements for the IR. So although SIM hours count towards the IR, they can't be logged as flight time for your CPL (and ATOs can charge almost as much for a SIM as an SEP!) . Doing a CBIR and reducing SIM time by using a single engine plane instead actually kills two birds with one stone and saves a fortune. The biggest mistake you can make in flight training is getting a PPL, hour building, getting a CPL then getting an IR. That's 45 hours of training after they've hit 200 hours and got their CPL. By simply getting your IR before your CPL you can incorporate the IR training into existing flying and save thousands.

Cilla1989

Thankfully, moving away isn't a huge deal to be honest, I am used to being away from home for long periods, sometimes over 8/9 months at a time. In fact I am 99% sure my wife prefers it to be honest!

I am aware of Logan Air already and they have not long started operating out of my local airport (Southampton) so therefore that would be an ideal option. I will certainly take a look at Eastern.

I'm well aware that there are options other than the 737/A320 and I am more than open to other A/C types.

Cilla1989

Also, there is always a plan b, thankfully the Military rely on ex serviceman as instructors a lot of the time. I am currently an instructor at the moment for trainees, therefore as a fallback I am sure I could do that.

@RUDESTUFF thanks for the advice. This is the main area I am confused with, the order of the training! I will certainly research the way you have suggested and work out a realistic timeline and financial contribution.

Modular Halil

Cilla1989

You could do it quicker than 6/7 years and still have a good couple of years just under 15 if you get there soon. However I wouldnt recommend going intergrated 100% modular due to corona virus but make sure, I cant stress this enough, make sure you can hold a class 1 medical your local AME should issue you one providing you have no major issues.

mikeax

Hello,

My thought is to start with ATPL theory classes during the autumn. I have not paid the initial fee because I'm not 100% sure yet. I want to do that full time in a class room in that case. Me, personally, like being prepared. Especially since it costs money and will consume a lot of my time. Because of this I started looking for ATPL books on a local website. I found a guy selling books for a fairly cheap price. I feel like that is a good investment to start reading now to be more prepared. The one thing that concerns me is that the books are from Nordian (2018 edition). In the ATPL theory I will use the books from Bristol.

In terms of the price for the Nordian books, I'll take it as long as that will give me some sort of advantage. What are your thoughts about the ATPL books from Nordian? Are they good enough to thank myself for starting my studies earlier? My goal is not to write any exams based on these books, just to get a grasp of every subject. Since the guy is selling the books from a really low price, I'm very interested. What are your thoughts about doing that?

redsnail

Thezk77. What's stopping you from going interstate? Not sure where you're living in Vic but you'll be the luckiest person alive that will never have to leave their hometown for this industry... Righto, if you have deep pockets, you can get lucky if you get an instructor rating and get work with a company that has access to multi engine charter.

Degrees are nice but not essential in Australia. As many Virgin and Qantas pilots are finding out now, a big fat log book is worth nothing when no one is employing. A degree that's 10 years old and no relevent experience isn't particularly useful either. However, this is the future. Right now, you're better off keeping your costs down, and getting something that's useful in the short term.

truckflyer

mikeax

I had the Nordian books around 7-8 years ago, they are not very good.

The best that time was Bristol and Oxford, the rest did not make me very impressed.

flyingkeyboard

Cilla1989

I’m in a similar position to you, in that I’m in the RAF, but with 5 years until my EDP point (I’m 35 in a few months). Too late to leave now and I enjoy my current job so I’ll ride it out until I’m 40. The aim is to be qualified around a year to six months befor I leave. PPL is almost finished (you’ll love it!) so now I’m considering what to do ref hour building. I’m open minded, however I do think that we (military) are fairly versatile and can draw on a lot of experience dealing with people, problems, technology, crises, etc. Regarding the age issue, pretty much every instructor I’ve come across has been positive and until Covid came along they were talking about getting a job not being an issue. A few days ago I was chatting with a BA recruiter and A380 pilot; he said In his opinion, that things will pick up in a few years and the demand for pilots will be there, which was encouraging.

I used all of my ELCs towards the PPL and if you are down south, I can recommend a decent military affiliated club which has very competitive rates for aircraft hire/instruction. Drop me a pm.

absid

Did not think I would like it as much as I did. Just a quick question: In your opinion, is it a good time to get into aviation, what with the new plague? Do you think it will pay off within, say, two years time?

I'm open to any and all advice as a newcomer, so general advice is appreciated as well. Also, I'm not familiar with a lot of abbreviated terms, so if possible, put what they mean in parentheses.

Thanks!

parkfell

Do your PPL and see how it goes. Don’t give up the day job.
As for professional employment as a pilot, plan on not before 2024

Ermak

Hello there,

I am a Russian citizen currently in year 10 of school (I graduate in 2022 and turn 18 in 2023). I have excellent English knowledge and am good in maths and physics, am physically fit too.

Due to my eyesight (astigmatism) I am unable to obtain a Russian medical certificate, so the only option of pilot training I'm looking at right now is integrated ATPL courses (cadet programs endorsed by airlines) Europe. Now the problem is, obviously, that I am a Russian citizen. Most flight schools require EU/EEA citizenship.

The only one I found that might work for me is Wizz Air Academy, because they only require you to be a citizen of one of their base countries (thankfully, Wizz is opening a base in my city this year). It is also attractive to me because the upfront cost is only 15000 euros.

My question is: Is there a real chance of me getting into the Wizz Air program vs say, a EU citizen? If not, are there any other schools that do not require EU citizenship to enroll?

Thanks in advance.

rudestuff

Since when do you have to be an EU citizen to study in the EU? With the correct visa you should be able to go to flight school anywhere. As for €15,000 - that's probably just the upfront cost, the total will be 4-5 times that amount. There is a huge pilot surplus at the moment, so you won't find an airline to sponsor you unfortunately.

Ermak

Most airline endorsed integrated ATPL programs that I've seen (Air Baltic, for example) require that you hold an EU/EEA/CH passport to apply. In any case, I doubt they'd be likely to pick me over any EU citizen, considering the pilot surplus.

The €15,000 is indeed just the upfront cost - however- the rest is paid off via increments off your salary after you've been released from line training as an Airbus FO - which I think is a very good thing.

rudestuff

I think you've been misinformed, that's about as believable as seeing a unicorn.