Hour building for CPL/IR - tips?
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Hour building for CPL/IR - tips?
Hello fellow aviators!
I am currently a PPL-A pilot with just above 100 hours. So I need about 50 hours more in order to begin on CPL training, I am talking about the modular way. These last 50 required hours I would like to use to improve my flying skills - and to better prepare me for the CPL course and skill test. I have read through some guidance from the UK CAA about the minimum requirements during the skill test regarding speed/altitude/heading so I am familiar with that bit. But still, I feel I have a lot to improve on while flying - but I am unsure what.
Currently I live in Norway, but in August I will move to the UK for about 6 months for the CBR 66 course at OAA. In the weekends I am thinking about building hours in UK as well.
I have also used the search function a bit and read some very useful threads there also.
All tips appreciated!
Thank you.
I am currently a PPL-A pilot with just above 100 hours. So I need about 50 hours more in order to begin on CPL training, I am talking about the modular way. These last 50 required hours I would like to use to improve my flying skills - and to better prepare me for the CPL course and skill test. I have read through some guidance from the UK CAA about the minimum requirements during the skill test regarding speed/altitude/heading so I am familiar with that bit. But still, I feel I have a lot to improve on while flying - but I am unsure what.
Currently I live in Norway, but in August I will move to the UK for about 6 months for the CBR 66 course at OAA. In the weekends I am thinking about building hours in UK as well.
I have also used the search function a bit and read some very useful threads there also.
All tips appreciated!
Thank you.
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If you are set on OAA then it may be useful to look for a club around that area (White Waltham, Wycombe Air Park, Enstone, Turweston to name but a few) to get used to the area that you will be learning/testing in.
I have just started a CPL at Stapleford and there isn't an awful lot of difference to the PPL syllabus. The main emphasis is on accurate flying and making sound PIC decisions. There is also quite a bit of work done on instrument flying, so operating on partial panel (suction gyro failure...AI, HSI). The teaching at Stapleford is excellent though and 25 hours of instruction seems to be sufficient to pick all of this up. Time spent on accurate nav and familiarisation of the area you will be learning in I would say is the best use of time.
And finally, enjoy it! It will be a while before you can justify flying around a country to have lunch or go to the beach again!
I have just started a CPL at Stapleford and there isn't an awful lot of difference to the PPL syllabus. The main emphasis is on accurate flying and making sound PIC decisions. There is also quite a bit of work done on instrument flying, so operating on partial panel (suction gyro failure...AI, HSI). The teaching at Stapleford is excellent though and 25 hours of instruction seems to be sufficient to pick all of this up. Time spent on accurate nav and familiarisation of the area you will be learning in I would say is the best use of time.
And finally, enjoy it! It will be a while before you can justify flying around a country to have lunch or go to the beach again!
AGM,
I commend you on thinking about the hour-building in a sensible manner. Too many people burn AVGAS in the circuit or in a familiar area. Gaining experience in unfamiliar airspace in another country is an admirable plan.
I wouldn't join a club in order to fly 50 hours. It's not enough to really get much benefit from the social or flying side of a club, especially if you're paying for the membership.
I suggest you find a friend or advertise on pprune for an experienced pilot to go on longer trips as your co-pilot. They might even happily contribute to the fuel costs or landing fees if you share some of the flying.
Go on a long trip, say, up to Scotland. File a flightplan that takes you through some interesting airspace, navigate properly using dead reckoning, and plan every aspect of the trip carefully. If you do one such trip up north and another down to France (Le Touquet) you will gain a lot of very useful experience.
Most importantly - you will have FUN!
I commend you on thinking about the hour-building in a sensible manner. Too many people burn AVGAS in the circuit or in a familiar area. Gaining experience in unfamiliar airspace in another country is an admirable plan.
I wouldn't join a club in order to fly 50 hours. It's not enough to really get much benefit from the social or flying side of a club, especially if you're paying for the membership.
I suggest you find a friend or advertise on pprune for an experienced pilot to go on longer trips as your co-pilot. They might even happily contribute to the fuel costs or landing fees if you share some of the flying.
Go on a long trip, say, up to Scotland. File a flightplan that takes you through some interesting airspace, navigate properly using dead reckoning, and plan every aspect of the trip carefully. If you do one such trip up north and another down to France (Le Touquet) you will gain a lot of very useful experience.
Most importantly - you will have FUN!
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http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...after-ppl.html That is a thread that I found about a year ago which has some useful stuff on it and even a link in the second post on it to another thread about hours building so I highly recommend looking through it. I myself am currently hours building and in fact made a post a few months ago asking for advice, but sadly got no answer from anyone.
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- Buy flying magazines and go wherever the free landing fee vouchers take you (some weird and wonderful places)
- Take a CPL holder/student with you on flights and ask them to give you diversions en route and give yourself very small hard places to find. My CPL instructor made me find a small take-away shop in Birmingham! Sounds hard but you just apply the basics on a much detailed scale. You don't need to go this extreme though, I was just coping well with navigation.
- Don't practice GH as you might pick up bad habits, but by all means practice PFLs. I wouldn't practice IF much either, just let your instructor show you the best way from the start of your CPL.
- Fly far afield. You will learn a lot from flying in unfamiliar places. I flew out of one small GA field that I'd never been to in my hour building. I misidentified a mountain to be something else, applied my heading and time and soon realised I was completely lost.
- Challenge yourself. My instructors told me you would never get a zone transit for major airports in the UK. I did about 12, including those airfields instructors said were impossible to get. So ignore what people say you can't do...give it a go and challenge yourself! Another challenge I did was go to airfields that were notoriously hard to find, or extremely busy, different country etc. Don't do anything stupid though.
- Learn to fly a new aircraft. My PPL training was doing on a C152, the last 20 hours of my hour building was done in a Piper.
I also recommend taking a small GPS with you. Never use it for navigation but just for emergencies. One story of mine was I went flying from the south of the UK to the north. I was in an area where I could get no radar service and all the local ATC was closed because they were military and it was a weekend. The terrain was rising and the thick overcast cloud was lowering, vis deteriorating and it started to rain. This was not forecast. Being a new PPL the workload was enormous deciding what to do, what my position was and where should I divert around. On top of that I was getting distracted by close encounters to a police helicopter and some form of fighter jet. Thankfully I whipped out a GPS from my bag and that took care of the "where am I" and got rid of a lot of the work load.
Lot of experiences on my hour building, some fun and some not so fun. It's a steep learning curve. And if you don't have any interesting stories about your hour building, you were probably too boring with it.
- Take a CPL holder/student with you on flights and ask them to give you diversions en route and give yourself very small hard places to find. My CPL instructor made me find a small take-away shop in Birmingham! Sounds hard but you just apply the basics on a much detailed scale. You don't need to go this extreme though, I was just coping well with navigation.
- Don't practice GH as you might pick up bad habits, but by all means practice PFLs. I wouldn't practice IF much either, just let your instructor show you the best way from the start of your CPL.
- Fly far afield. You will learn a lot from flying in unfamiliar places. I flew out of one small GA field that I'd never been to in my hour building. I misidentified a mountain to be something else, applied my heading and time and soon realised I was completely lost.
- Challenge yourself. My instructors told me you would never get a zone transit for major airports in the UK. I did about 12, including those airfields instructors said were impossible to get. So ignore what people say you can't do...give it a go and challenge yourself! Another challenge I did was go to airfields that were notoriously hard to find, or extremely busy, different country etc. Don't do anything stupid though.
- Learn to fly a new aircraft. My PPL training was doing on a C152, the last 20 hours of my hour building was done in a Piper.
I also recommend taking a small GPS with you. Never use it for navigation but just for emergencies. One story of mine was I went flying from the south of the UK to the north. I was in an area where I could get no radar service and all the local ATC was closed because they were military and it was a weekend. The terrain was rising and the thick overcast cloud was lowering, vis deteriorating and it started to rain. This was not forecast. Being a new PPL the workload was enormous deciding what to do, what my position was and where should I divert around. On top of that I was getting distracted by close encounters to a police helicopter and some form of fighter jet. Thankfully I whipped out a GPS from my bag and that took care of the "where am I" and got rid of a lot of the work load.
Lot of experiences on my hour building, some fun and some not so fun. It's a steep learning curve. And if you don't have any interesting stories about your hour building, you were probably too boring with it.
Last edited by pudoc; 17th Apr 2013 at 00:45.
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Thank you Pudoc and Matt7504.
Matt: I have copied the tips posted in those threads into one .doc document, I will do that with the tips I got in this thread as well.
Pudoc: Thank you very much for your tips. But, what is "GH" and "PFLs"? I presume "IF" means "instrument flying". Correct me if wrong.
Matt: I have copied the tips posted in those threads into one .doc document, I will do that with the tips I got in this thread as well.
Pudoc: Thank you very much for your tips. But, what is "GH" and "PFLs"? I presume "IF" means "instrument flying". Correct me if wrong.
Last edited by Alpha Golf Mike; 18th Apr 2013 at 17:42.
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Hi Alpha Golf Mike,
I did what you're thinking about doing and went on the OAA modular course.
A lot of people are making a lot of good suggestions but respectfully maybe you should consider flying in the US. Heres my experience:
1) Like you I needed to hour build to meet the P1 requirement of 100 hours before starting the course. Your CPL-ME training will be VFR in Arizona. I think you'll get more out of being familiar with the airspace around Phoenix. Flying in America is a doddle but when you move up from PA28 to PA34 it helps your confidence if you know the territory. The integrated cadets will have a headstart over you here. There are VFR departure and arrival plates you will be using for all your flights. Maybe grab them off the school before you head out there/when you get there so you can use them in your hour building. Thats what I would have done differently looking back.
You do spend 12 hours initially in a PA28 do familarise yourself with the area and approaches but more familiarity helps.
2) Getting used to the scenery in the UK is nice but the CPL-IR element is just that. We get into the aeroplanes, screens go up and come down when you shoot the approach. They go up again then come back down when you're at MDA on finals back at Oxford. You're following your VORs/DMEs/NDBs the whole time as you're always in cloud or have the screens up. There is no extra benefit to VFR in the UK over what you could gain from flying in the US where you will be doing your VFR CPL-ME training.
Sure there is a valid case for radio practice which is is a considerably higher workload in UK vs US but without the IR rating you can't go into the airways/fly IMC and its juggling the radio while flying under the screens and interacting with controllers while flying at twin speed that makes it challenging which you won't be doing on a PPL in the UK
3) Most importantly, flying in US is cheaper. Its about Gbp 60-80 an hour for C172/PA28 versus the 130-175 in the UK. Fitted GPS (e.g430) seems to be popular in the US too which is a nice reassurance when starting in unfamiliar airspace. BTW: Garmin430 is what the OAA PA34s are equipped with. I did 50 hours in the US. Sure you pay accommodation & food etc but the numbers still work out (and easily for the amount of flying we needed to do) because the air fare is a non-issue being a sunk cost since you need to jet out there to attend your course. You're saving Gbp 100 per flying hour, do 50 hours, and thats Gbp 5,000 - Potentially a significant contribution to your FI course/type rating/travel costs to Africa or elsewhere. There are no landing fees in the US so you can shoot as many approaches as you like and land at international airports (VFR of course) and it is a lot of fun.
I went out there 2 weeks ahead of my course and completed the hours I needed with 2 days spare. The dry weather is reliable around Phoenix/W.USA so you can plan your itinerary. Accommodation is about USD75 a night.
3) Your biggest challenge and reason to be thrifty is not the flying, its getting a job -well, thats been my experience. To give you an idea I have first time ATPL passes, >90% average, first passes CPL-ME & CPL-IR flying exams, and graded "above average standard" for the MCC & JOC. I also have a postgrad degree from a respectable uni in a mathematical based subject. It has been 4 months now and I am still looking for a lucky break.
Am now looking to go into part time flight instructing-fingers crossed that is an option- Part time because It doesn't pay very much if at all so need a regular full time job to support oneself but I was mentally prepared for this before starting. Digressing, the main thing is you need to run a lean ship with your cash because whatever you choose be it flight instructing, type rating, heading out to Africa etc to do SEP/MEP charter work you'll need some money to get out there so use your pennies wisely.
Just my humble thoughts & experiences. Hope it helps you make a good decision. I can recommend some great places to fly to if you do go to Arizona to hour-build.
I did what you're thinking about doing and went on the OAA modular course.
A lot of people are making a lot of good suggestions but respectfully maybe you should consider flying in the US. Heres my experience:
1) Like you I needed to hour build to meet the P1 requirement of 100 hours before starting the course. Your CPL-ME training will be VFR in Arizona. I think you'll get more out of being familiar with the airspace around Phoenix. Flying in America is a doddle but when you move up from PA28 to PA34 it helps your confidence if you know the territory. The integrated cadets will have a headstart over you here. There are VFR departure and arrival plates you will be using for all your flights. Maybe grab them off the school before you head out there/when you get there so you can use them in your hour building. Thats what I would have done differently looking back.
You do spend 12 hours initially in a PA28 do familarise yourself with the area and approaches but more familiarity helps.
2) Getting used to the scenery in the UK is nice but the CPL-IR element is just that. We get into the aeroplanes, screens go up and come down when you shoot the approach. They go up again then come back down when you're at MDA on finals back at Oxford. You're following your VORs/DMEs/NDBs the whole time as you're always in cloud or have the screens up. There is no extra benefit to VFR in the UK over what you could gain from flying in the US where you will be doing your VFR CPL-ME training.
Sure there is a valid case for radio practice which is is a considerably higher workload in UK vs US but without the IR rating you can't go into the airways/fly IMC and its juggling the radio while flying under the screens and interacting with controllers while flying at twin speed that makes it challenging which you won't be doing on a PPL in the UK
3) Most importantly, flying in US is cheaper. Its about Gbp 60-80 an hour for C172/PA28 versus the 130-175 in the UK. Fitted GPS (e.g430) seems to be popular in the US too which is a nice reassurance when starting in unfamiliar airspace. BTW: Garmin430 is what the OAA PA34s are equipped with. I did 50 hours in the US. Sure you pay accommodation & food etc but the numbers still work out (and easily for the amount of flying we needed to do) because the air fare is a non-issue being a sunk cost since you need to jet out there to attend your course. You're saving Gbp 100 per flying hour, do 50 hours, and thats Gbp 5,000 - Potentially a significant contribution to your FI course/type rating/travel costs to Africa or elsewhere. There are no landing fees in the US so you can shoot as many approaches as you like and land at international airports (VFR of course) and it is a lot of fun.
I went out there 2 weeks ahead of my course and completed the hours I needed with 2 days spare. The dry weather is reliable around Phoenix/W.USA so you can plan your itinerary. Accommodation is about USD75 a night.
3) Your biggest challenge and reason to be thrifty is not the flying, its getting a job -well, thats been my experience. To give you an idea I have first time ATPL passes, >90% average, first passes CPL-ME & CPL-IR flying exams, and graded "above average standard" for the MCC & JOC. I also have a postgrad degree from a respectable uni in a mathematical based subject. It has been 4 months now and I am still looking for a lucky break.
Am now looking to go into part time flight instructing-fingers crossed that is an option- Part time because It doesn't pay very much if at all so need a regular full time job to support oneself but I was mentally prepared for this before starting. Digressing, the main thing is you need to run a lean ship with your cash because whatever you choose be it flight instructing, type rating, heading out to Africa etc to do SEP/MEP charter work you'll need some money to get out there so use your pennies wisely.
Just my humble thoughts & experiences. Hope it helps you make a good decision. I can recommend some great places to fly to if you do go to Arizona to hour-build.
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I think its very honourable to make the best of your hours building, plan challenging flights that build experience and dont degrade your skill level with bad habits.
However, the practical and monitary side of things have to also be considered.
For me, i went to Orlando, Florida. As someone mentioned above, the overall cost worked out less, even after accomodation and the transit over there, but also the timescale in which i was able to complete the hours was a massive advantage.
Whilst in the UK i was scraping away getting an hour here, half an hour there, In Florida i was able to knock out as many as 20 hours in a week, comfortably without knackering myself and having plenty of free time to explore and essentially vacation in Florida.
The typical summer climate consists of very nice clear CAVOK mornings, with a tropical storm of some kind mid-afternoon. My plan was to always book out the aeroplane as early as possible. Try and depart before 8am, before all the school/training traffic kicked off. Fly somewhere for 90 to 120 mins or so, land, have a coffee and fly back, aiming to have handed the keys back over the desk by 1pm. This way, i had completed up to 4 hours of flying in a day, didnt have to deal with any stressful weather, and could go back to the condo and spend the afternoon chilling out in the sun.
Just one of many awesome ways of doing the hours building!
If i had to do it again, id use this strategy for all but say 10 hours up to my 100 PIC, and spend the last 10, perfecting my handling, using conventional navigation and getting into the mindset for the CPL, as i have to admit, my first few hours of CPL training were a bit shaky, i'd let my discipline slide a little whilst hours building.
Enjoy
FO 737-800
2000hrs
However, the practical and monitary side of things have to also be considered.
For me, i went to Orlando, Florida. As someone mentioned above, the overall cost worked out less, even after accomodation and the transit over there, but also the timescale in which i was able to complete the hours was a massive advantage.
Whilst in the UK i was scraping away getting an hour here, half an hour there, In Florida i was able to knock out as many as 20 hours in a week, comfortably without knackering myself and having plenty of free time to explore and essentially vacation in Florida.
The typical summer climate consists of very nice clear CAVOK mornings, with a tropical storm of some kind mid-afternoon. My plan was to always book out the aeroplane as early as possible. Try and depart before 8am, before all the school/training traffic kicked off. Fly somewhere for 90 to 120 mins or so, land, have a coffee and fly back, aiming to have handed the keys back over the desk by 1pm. This way, i had completed up to 4 hours of flying in a day, didnt have to deal with any stressful weather, and could go back to the condo and spend the afternoon chilling out in the sun.
Just one of many awesome ways of doing the hours building!
If i had to do it again, id use this strategy for all but say 10 hours up to my 100 PIC, and spend the last 10, perfecting my handling, using conventional navigation and getting into the mindset for the CPL, as i have to admit, my first few hours of CPL training were a bit shaky, i'd let my discipline slide a little whilst hours building.
Enjoy
FO 737-800
2000hrs
