Dreaming of flying a jet (specially to you older guys!)
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I did not say 90% of the job, I said 90% of the flight, now that was probably slightly exaggerated, I can admit that!
"Flying is hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."
Here I am today, "living the dream"
Yet the dream does not feel like a dream anymore! Maybe my message should also go as a stark warning to those "older wannabes", who believe this is what is missing in their life!
Against most odds, I got into the business, which was my "dream" - however already on my first observer day, my dreams was shattered to pieces! 4 sectors across Europe in one day on the jump seat, I was destroyed when I returned to my bed to have a rest! Guess what, not a long rest, I barely had closed my eyes, before I had to wake up again, and go for another day of observer flights!
Now this has become my everyday life - and feeling what I do now it makes me wonder, was this really the dream I thought it was?
Yes I am living the "dream!"
Looking back over the years, the sacrifices, the money I spent, the fractures of my relationship, the time I am loosing with my daughter, the things I could have done with that "money" that I have already spent!
I get up 3.30 in the morning, and get back at 17.00, and than next morning up again 3.30 - vow... yes, I am flying a shiny jet, vow... what a dream!!
And how much money did I make for those hours of work? Hmm. Hard to give an exact number, but probably around £150, seriously, are you kidding me, you might think that is great money!
However I had a business, still have it by the way, where I make more money in an afternoon, I actually was home few days last week, and made £1500 with few hours work within 4 - 5 days
Now what can I say, I got what I wanted, or so it seemed, do I enjoy it? I enjoy parts, but are those parts I enjoy worth all the hours I am stuck in that metal tin?
I am not meaning to offend anybody, but besides the Take Off / departure and the Approach / Descent - and landing, 90% of the job is DEAD BORING! It does my head in to sit there for hours and hours, doing nothing, besides read some FCOM or some other "useful" literature, to enhance my aviation career!
Now I do admit, maybe if I got home to my family a bit more often, and maybe if the pay was better, I would not feel so let down by what I thought was my "dream" - however that does still not cover over the fact of all those hours of boredom!
But thinking about the "freedom" I have lost, the income from the job, the loss of family life, commuting lifestyle, where of course your roster will never be adapted to give you the chance to travel home on your working day, you always have to commute on your off days!
So you "older" guys specially, who are considering to follow your dream, beware - it might not be exactly as you imagine it to be! I do miss GA, and in many ways think I probably would have had more fun flying around in a small PA28 - than again back in 2006, when I started to think about startng to fly again, a friend of mine, who was a 74 captain, tried to tell me that it was maybe not as it seemed!
But did I listen? Of course - not that much, and neither will probably you either, but considering the facts with the cost of training and time lost with family and friends!
Can you imagine the pleasure and fun I could have had with my family, if I had spent the money on them, instead of CPL / ME/IR + + , do I now have regrets?
I can't have regrets, because if I had not tried I would never have known, I got what I deserved and what I asked for!
Having known the facts I know today, would have I have done something different, probably yes, but maybe not!
I am still in a very fortunate situation compared to many other people, as I still have my business running slowly above idle, and I know in myself if I feel to much BS coming my way, it will cost me nothing to say STOP! But that's not really want I want to do, I want to give it a go, until 1500 - 2000 hours TT, but if this is it, well than I am not so convinced anymore!
I would be surprised if I am the only one feeling like this, but I think many are to proud to admit it, because it would be making yourself admit that after spending all that effort, time and money, it was not just all that!
Here I am today, "living the dream"
Yet the dream does not feel like a dream anymore! Maybe my message should also go as a stark warning to those "older wannabes", who believe this is what is missing in their life!
Against most odds, I got into the business, which was my "dream" - however already on my first observer day, my dreams was shattered to pieces! 4 sectors across Europe in one day on the jump seat, I was destroyed when I returned to my bed to have a rest! Guess what, not a long rest, I barely had closed my eyes, before I had to wake up again, and go for another day of observer flights!
Now this has become my everyday life - and feeling what I do now it makes me wonder, was this really the dream I thought it was?
Yes I am living the "dream!"
Looking back over the years, the sacrifices, the money I spent, the fractures of my relationship, the time I am loosing with my daughter, the things I could have done with that "money" that I have already spent!
I get up 3.30 in the morning, and get back at 17.00, and than next morning up again 3.30 - vow... yes, I am flying a shiny jet, vow... what a dream!!
And how much money did I make for those hours of work? Hmm. Hard to give an exact number, but probably around £150, seriously, are you kidding me, you might think that is great money!
However I had a business, still have it by the way, where I make more money in an afternoon, I actually was home few days last week, and made £1500 with few hours work within 4 - 5 days
Now what can I say, I got what I wanted, or so it seemed, do I enjoy it? I enjoy parts, but are those parts I enjoy worth all the hours I am stuck in that metal tin?
I am not meaning to offend anybody, but besides the Take Off / departure and the Approach / Descent - and landing, 90% of the job is DEAD BORING! It does my head in to sit there for hours and hours, doing nothing, besides read some FCOM or some other "useful" literature, to enhance my aviation career!
Now I do admit, maybe if I got home to my family a bit more often, and maybe if the pay was better, I would not feel so let down by what I thought was my "dream" - however that does still not cover over the fact of all those hours of boredom!
But thinking about the "freedom" I have lost, the income from the job, the loss of family life, commuting lifestyle, where of course your roster will never be adapted to give you the chance to travel home on your working day, you always have to commute on your off days!
So you "older" guys specially, who are considering to follow your dream, beware - it might not be exactly as you imagine it to be! I do miss GA, and in many ways think I probably would have had more fun flying around in a small PA28 - than again back in 2006, when I started to think about startng to fly again, a friend of mine, who was a 74 captain, tried to tell me that it was maybe not as it seemed!
But did I listen? Of course - not that much, and neither will probably you either, but considering the facts with the cost of training and time lost with family and friends!
Can you imagine the pleasure and fun I could have had with my family, if I had spent the money on them, instead of CPL / ME/IR + + , do I now have regrets?
I can't have regrets, because if I had not tried I would never have known, I got what I deserved and what I asked for!
Having known the facts I know today, would have I have done something different, probably yes, but maybe not!
I am still in a very fortunate situation compared to many other people, as I still have my business running slowly above idle, and I know in myself if I feel to much BS coming my way, it will cost me nothing to say STOP! But that's not really want I want to do, I want to give it a go, until 1500 - 2000 hours TT, but if this is it, well than I am not so convinced anymore!
I would be surprised if I am the only one feeling like this, but I think many are to proud to admit it, because it would be making yourself admit that after spending all that effort, time and money, it was not just all that!
Do you remember writing this barely 12 weeks ago? Maybe you should remind yourself.
I admit, in the past, I have said stupid things on these forums, some maybe misguided, lack of experience, but the more you get into this business, the more you see you want to learn and know, and the more you understand how little you know!
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I've re-read this thread in the cold light of day wondering if I had maybe been a bit too harsh on our delicate little flower, but unfortunately I still find myself facepalming at what he writes.
One of my early instructors once said to me that if ever you find yourself sitting there doing nothing while flying an aircraft, it's because you've missed something. That remains true to this day. Any d1c khead can sit there idle and bored in the cruise on a long sector, but the better pilot will always find something to do, whether it's checking the status of en-route alternates, monitoring systems, or even learning something.
You complain about declining Ts&Cs, you blame those who enter the industry and work for peanuts, and yet you yourself have accepted a job with less pay than you feel is appropriate, so you are an equal part of the problem. A self-hack there.
The problem in the industry one of supply and demand, pilots versus pilot jobs available and you will understand the market forces that are generated. The best thing for the pilot body as a whole would be to have fewer people entering the industry. Those that enter the industry and work for virtually nothing and those who get jobs but then bitch and moan about how awful life is, are the two main groups that the industry would be better off without, and I'm afraid you seem to tick both boxes.
You seem to have entered the profession based on a stereotype. You seem to have expected a highly paid job that's easy but exciting with short, civilized hours of work and a free choice of where you work. If you know of any such job in the world please let me know. Some due diligence would have given you a realistic understanding of the job, upon which you could make sensible career choices. The fact that flying a four sector day and then being tired afterwards came as a surprise to you beggars belief.
Everything you write tells me that you are not cut out to be a pilot and as I said before there is no shame in that. Just do something about rather than bleating. There's nothing more irritating than spending a day in the flight deck with someone who bitches all day.
Now I realise that you want to open the eyes of wannabies. That is great and the main thrust of my rant is that everyone, you included, should go in with their eyes open. However many of the things you complain about, we either quite enjoy or accept as a thoroughly anticipated part of the job. You will find very little sympathy here - but you've probably picked up on that by now.
One of my early instructors once said to me that if ever you find yourself sitting there doing nothing while flying an aircraft, it's because you've missed something. That remains true to this day. Any d1c khead can sit there idle and bored in the cruise on a long sector, but the better pilot will always find something to do, whether it's checking the status of en-route alternates, monitoring systems, or even learning something.
You complain about declining Ts&Cs, you blame those who enter the industry and work for peanuts, and yet you yourself have accepted a job with less pay than you feel is appropriate, so you are an equal part of the problem. A self-hack there.
The problem in the industry one of supply and demand, pilots versus pilot jobs available and you will understand the market forces that are generated. The best thing for the pilot body as a whole would be to have fewer people entering the industry. Those that enter the industry and work for virtually nothing and those who get jobs but then bitch and moan about how awful life is, are the two main groups that the industry would be better off without, and I'm afraid you seem to tick both boxes.
You seem to have entered the profession based on a stereotype. You seem to have expected a highly paid job that's easy but exciting with short, civilized hours of work and a free choice of where you work. If you know of any such job in the world please let me know. Some due diligence would have given you a realistic understanding of the job, upon which you could make sensible career choices. The fact that flying a four sector day and then being tired afterwards came as a surprise to you beggars belief.
Everything you write tells me that you are not cut out to be a pilot and as I said before there is no shame in that. Just do something about rather than bleating. There's nothing more irritating than spending a day in the flight deck with someone who bitches all day.
Now I realise that you want to open the eyes of wannabies. That is great and the main thrust of my rant is that everyone, you included, should go in with their eyes open. However many of the things you complain about, we either quite enjoy or accept as a thoroughly anticipated part of the job. You will find very little sympathy here - but you've probably picked up on that by now.
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Bealzebub - you are not really the target group for the post, however you are welcome to voice your opinion!
No attack was intended, until I got attacked!
And yes, sure, I moan and moan on the flight deck, Torque - seriously? Do I really seem that stupid?
However I have met several, and much more than an handful of both captains and first officiers, who have moaned, much more than I have done here, as I do find much excitement in parts of the job!
Neither am I fragile soul, who has problems with working adverse hours etc., this is not an issue for me, myself, but for sure could be an issue for people considering a career change! Eyes wide open? Many havent got that!
And to talk about TC's, well you have to be in it, to be able to do something with it, as you guys who already was in it, did not do eff all, and just let it degrade!
Of course a forum discussion is to open debate about topics, and get different views, not just the one who tries to play the good old wise man, thinks he knows everything, when its very clear some know a lot, but still know very little!
Having come from the bottom, I knew, I could not be picky where I went, if I wanted to follow my "dream" well, beggars can't be choosers! Being inside I can see much more, should I not voice my opinion because I am inside?
Have I exaggerated some of the topics a bit, for sure I have, but believe me, there are guys with much more experience than me, that feel like I have explained and even worse!
However at least I got paid during my training, not like some others who willingly parts with large amounts of cash on their P2F schemes around the world!
I constantly read countless posts, of the "to old" question, the fact is that if you have passed 40.th, and never had a flight hour, you are to old to start this, you might get lucky, but that is rather the exception than the rule! So many here, goes in the middle, ah it's never to late, you only have one life, you might regret or go for it, not many of you are blunt enough to say the real best advice, which is don't do it!
Of course, unless you are willing to accept this bla bla bla bla!
End of the line, expect nothing, hope for the best, it's close to winning the lottery!
It amuses me to see, that because I write a few opinions, I am considered not to be fit to be a pilot by some of you! Isn't that what has got the whole industry into this mess, that you never was able to make up your opinion to support each other and work together to stop the bad TC's in the industry!
Like Bealzebub, (no personal attack intended) - you have many good posts about the industry, some even longer than mine, some makes me fall asleep after I got 1/4 down the post! You have your views of what is good, wrong, bad etc. Now I am looking at this with another set of eyes, having been innovative in my own past business and life, and always worked hard - and been fairly successful, what makes you think that I am a nutter?
That's the way you try to post "degrading" comments, to me I don't really care, and your "fans" love to jump on the bandwagon!
Oh poor little souls, personal attacks... how f.. personal can it be, I don't know you, or anybody else!
When - Austrian Airlines pilot, with over 10.000 hours, tells me during our training together, he could not care less about flying, been flying for over 16 years, he does it for the money, only! The fact is, that what other skill does this pilot have, where he will make this kind of money, to support this lifestyle!
For some it might stay a passion, for some, it might just become what it is, a job! For me? I do love it, whatever I feel and have mixed emotions about it, shows how something you love, can still have it's issues!
Maybe I should just keep quiet, and follow the masses, and be a silent mouse, than again if I was like that, I would have achieved what I have done until now in my life!
No attack was intended, until I got attacked!
And yes, sure, I moan and moan on the flight deck, Torque - seriously? Do I really seem that stupid?
However I have met several, and much more than an handful of both captains and first officiers, who have moaned, much more than I have done here, as I do find much excitement in parts of the job!
Neither am I fragile soul, who has problems with working adverse hours etc., this is not an issue for me, myself, but for sure could be an issue for people considering a career change! Eyes wide open? Many havent got that!
And to talk about TC's, well you have to be in it, to be able to do something with it, as you guys who already was in it, did not do eff all, and just let it degrade!
Of course a forum discussion is to open debate about topics, and get different views, not just the one who tries to play the good old wise man, thinks he knows everything, when its very clear some know a lot, but still know very little!
Having come from the bottom, I knew, I could not be picky where I went, if I wanted to follow my "dream" well, beggars can't be choosers! Being inside I can see much more, should I not voice my opinion because I am inside?
Have I exaggerated some of the topics a bit, for sure I have, but believe me, there are guys with much more experience than me, that feel like I have explained and even worse!
However at least I got paid during my training, not like some others who willingly parts with large amounts of cash on their P2F schemes around the world!
I constantly read countless posts, of the "to old" question, the fact is that if you have passed 40.th, and never had a flight hour, you are to old to start this, you might get lucky, but that is rather the exception than the rule! So many here, goes in the middle, ah it's never to late, you only have one life, you might regret or go for it, not many of you are blunt enough to say the real best advice, which is don't do it!
Of course, unless you are willing to accept this bla bla bla bla!
End of the line, expect nothing, hope for the best, it's close to winning the lottery!
It amuses me to see, that because I write a few opinions, I am considered not to be fit to be a pilot by some of you! Isn't that what has got the whole industry into this mess, that you never was able to make up your opinion to support each other and work together to stop the bad TC's in the industry!
Like Bealzebub, (no personal attack intended) - you have many good posts about the industry, some even longer than mine, some makes me fall asleep after I got 1/4 down the post! You have your views of what is good, wrong, bad etc. Now I am looking at this with another set of eyes, having been innovative in my own past business and life, and always worked hard - and been fairly successful, what makes you think that I am a nutter?
That's the way you try to post "degrading" comments, to me I don't really care, and your "fans" love to jump on the bandwagon!
Oh poor little souls, personal attacks... how f.. personal can it be, I don't know you, or anybody else!
When - Austrian Airlines pilot, with over 10.000 hours, tells me during our training together, he could not care less about flying, been flying for over 16 years, he does it for the money, only! The fact is, that what other skill does this pilot have, where he will make this kind of money, to support this lifestyle!
For some it might stay a passion, for some, it might just become what it is, a job! For me? I do love it, whatever I feel and have mixed emotions about it, shows how something you love, can still have it's issues!
Maybe I should just keep quiet, and follow the masses, and be a silent mouse, than again if I was like that, I would have achieved what I have done until now in my life!
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truckflyer
Delete your account and just leave the forum mate, because no one will ever take one of your posts seriously again, you are a joke.
And what are you complaining about P2F for.......? If you are with FR or Easy you ARE P2F, you are just too stupid to realize it.
To contrast you, I just had my second day of flight training on a mid sized twin turbo prop... after a rough day yesterday sitting through 2 hours with my head in a sick bag as my companions carried out steep turns and stalls, I sucked it up, took their jibes in good humor and flew as best i could.
Today I went in the RHS first, determined, and I flew as good as any of them, and now i'm off for the weekend and feeling great
And what are you complaining about P2F for.......? If you are with FR or Easy you ARE P2F, you are just too stupid to realize it.
To contrast you, I just had my second day of flight training on a mid sized twin turbo prop... after a rough day yesterday sitting through 2 hours with my head in a sick bag as my companions carried out steep turns and stalls, I sucked it up, took their jibes in good humor and flew as best i could.
Today I went in the RHS first, determined, and I flew as good as any of them, and now i'm off for the weekend and feeling great
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cgwhitemonk11 Who are you? Goose, Maverick or Iceman?
You not one of the older guys going into the business, pretty sure you really don't have anybody you need to consider in your life, other than your own pumped ego! Congratulations on the steep-turns, vow... that sounds to be an amazing exciting adventure, for you..........
sapco2 - "Bosses like MO thrive on the enthusiasm and professionalism pilots display and they have simply tapped into the business idea of exploiting that passion. Therein lies our real problem!"
That's one of the smartest comments I have heard, I don't feel injustice by the way, it is what it is, I knew that from the start!
To many are willing to let themselves be sucked dry, to achieve this "dream" - end of the day, this plays into the hands of the airlines, and the gullibility of people interested in aviation!
What makes this job for some so attractive, that they are willing to put themselves trough all the hardships and obvious negative effects the job can and will bring for many?
I am not pretending to be any holier that holier person in this case myself, wtf, part of becoming a professional is to realize it is exactly that, a profession!
There will come a day, when the attraction of the passion will get worn, it's so immature to believe it is a game, playing with big planes, as your toys! I find it hilarious how this culture is being nurtured, and so many get sucked into it!
First of all it is a commercial business, we all know that, nobody needs to highlight that for me!
Maybe it's just me, but I thought it would be more challenging to be an airline pilot, instead I found out my biggest challenge is to calculate how many tea-bags I need to bring with me for a days of operations!
And what movies the captain has got on his IPAD today! Do I need to bring my own selection, or??
Some here, really take these forums much to seriously! How better can I entertain myself than when I am sitting in this X. ing hotel !!
You not one of the older guys going into the business, pretty sure you really don't have anybody you need to consider in your life, other than your own pumped ego! Congratulations on the steep-turns, vow... that sounds to be an amazing exciting adventure, for you..........
sapco2 - "Bosses like MO thrive on the enthusiasm and professionalism pilots display and they have simply tapped into the business idea of exploiting that passion. Therein lies our real problem!"
That's one of the smartest comments I have heard, I don't feel injustice by the way, it is what it is, I knew that from the start!
To many are willing to let themselves be sucked dry, to achieve this "dream" - end of the day, this plays into the hands of the airlines, and the gullibility of people interested in aviation!
What makes this job for some so attractive, that they are willing to put themselves trough all the hardships and obvious negative effects the job can and will bring for many?
I am not pretending to be any holier that holier person in this case myself, wtf, part of becoming a professional is to realize it is exactly that, a profession!
There will come a day, when the attraction of the passion will get worn, it's so immature to believe it is a game, playing with big planes, as your toys! I find it hilarious how this culture is being nurtured, and so many get sucked into it!
First of all it is a commercial business, we all know that, nobody needs to highlight that for me!
Maybe it's just me, but I thought it would be more challenging to be an airline pilot, instead I found out my biggest challenge is to calculate how many tea-bags I need to bring with me for a days of operations!
And what movies the captain has got on his IPAD today! Do I need to bring my own selection, or??Some here, really take these forums much to seriously! How better can I entertain myself than when I am sitting in this X. ing hotel !!
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Maybe it's just me, but I thought it would be more challenging to be an airline pilot, instead I found out my biggest challenge is to calculate how many tea-bags I need to bring with me for a days of operations!
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Obviously a troll, weren't you complaining not so long back that it was unfair that you couldn't get into Ryanair cause your were too old? 
From your posts you have a massive chip on your shoulder, if you are actually an employed pilot the only good thing this thread has done is maybe educate potential pilots in who they might have to put up with for 10 hours a day before they start training.
From your posts you have a massive chip on your shoulder, if you are actually an employed pilot the only good thing this thread has done is maybe educate potential pilots in who they might have to put up with for 10 hours a day before they start training.
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Talk about contradicting yourself:
truckflyer
9th Apr 2012, 15:13
Don't listen to the negative moaners here, they are mostly moaning because they haven't got the money or they have been rejected!
Personally I would have jumped at the chance to get going with RYR, and I have many friends working for them, yes they have had some mixed experience, good and bad, but overall all of them are very happy to be working there, and in summer after passing 500 hours, they make good money too!
So I would just slightly put a deaf ear towards the people complaining about Ryanair, there are not many other chances to get experience, and if some are bothered by paying for their own water, just bring your own from Tesco!
If you working in an office, they don't give you free water either, some guys that are complaining, are really so dated!
Sure there are better things to come after, but I know of guys who are happy as soon as they get established and get a base they are happy with!
9th Apr 2012, 15:13
Don't listen to the negative moaners here, they are mostly moaning because they haven't got the money or they have been rejected!
Personally I would have jumped at the chance to get going with RYR, and I have many friends working for them, yes they have had some mixed experience, good and bad, but overall all of them are very happy to be working there, and in summer after passing 500 hours, they make good money too!
So I would just slightly put a deaf ear towards the people complaining about Ryanair, there are not many other chances to get experience, and if some are bothered by paying for their own water, just bring your own from Tesco!
If you working in an office, they don't give you free water either, some guys that are complaining, are really so dated!
Sure there are better things to come after, but I know of guys who are happy as soon as they get established and get a base they are happy with!
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Wow TF you seemed to have stirred up a real hornets nest but I'm sure that you expected the sort of reaction that you have got and that you're big enough and old enough to cope with it.
Like you I came to flying later in life as a career changer, after saving enough spends to finance the training and I have a wife and a 10 year old son. Thats where the similarity ends as you have succeeded in securing a job where I have not and kudos to you for that. Despite the fact that you are unfulfilled by the career that I wish for I have no axe to grind with you and no personal beef with you.
We're all individuals and we deal with separation from those closest to us in different ways and how we react depends upon a number of things, the individual, the strength of relationship with our partner, the strength and size of the support network of friends and relatives etc etc. Before I started flying training I was in the military so I spent lots of time away from my wife and family, putting myself in harms way on long operational deployments scaring my wife witless and missing huge chunks of my sons development and formative years. I was lucky to have a fantastic wife who was strong and supportive who had a good family network around her.
Since finishing flying training I have reverted to my previous engineering career to keep money coming in and keep the licence, ratings,medical etc current and I'm fortunate enough that my place of work is close enough to allow me home every night. The job pays well(ish), the people that I work with are great but the work itself is mind numbing, uninspiring and completely unfulfilling (sound familiar) but, on balance the positives outweigh the negatives.
Would I swap situations with you? In a heartbeat I would but I suppose you can guess that and I'm sure your boss knows that if you do leave there will quickly be a disorganised queue at their office door to take your place.
I genuinely hope that things work out for you and that you find a solution (inside or outside flying) that grants you the work/ life balance and peace of mind that you obviously seek.
Like you I came to flying later in life as a career changer, after saving enough spends to finance the training and I have a wife and a 10 year old son. Thats where the similarity ends as you have succeeded in securing a job where I have not and kudos to you for that. Despite the fact that you are unfulfilled by the career that I wish for I have no axe to grind with you and no personal beef with you.
We're all individuals and we deal with separation from those closest to us in different ways and how we react depends upon a number of things, the individual, the strength of relationship with our partner, the strength and size of the support network of friends and relatives etc etc. Before I started flying training I was in the military so I spent lots of time away from my wife and family, putting myself in harms way on long operational deployments scaring my wife witless and missing huge chunks of my sons development and formative years. I was lucky to have a fantastic wife who was strong and supportive who had a good family network around her.
Since finishing flying training I have reverted to my previous engineering career to keep money coming in and keep the licence, ratings,medical etc current and I'm fortunate enough that my place of work is close enough to allow me home every night. The job pays well(ish), the people that I work with are great but the work itself is mind numbing, uninspiring and completely unfulfilling (sound familiar) but, on balance the positives outweigh the negatives.
Would I swap situations with you? In a heartbeat I would but I suppose you can guess that and I'm sure your boss knows that if you do leave there will quickly be a disorganised queue at their office door to take your place.
I genuinely hope that things work out for you and that you find a solution (inside or outside flying) that grants you the work/ life balance and peace of mind that you obviously seek.
Last edited by magicmick; 18th Jan 2013 at 20:04.
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Some here, really take these forums much to seriously! How better can I entertain myself than when I am sitting in this X. ing hotel !!
I know it's blowing a blizzard in Europe at the moment and you're grinding it out on European shorthaul but that's why people do it for a couple years, then move to EK or Virgin and bid for Bali and Seychelles trips. The boredom of the cruise (of which you know NOTHING about yet, young jedi
) is suddenly a minor inconvenience 
But you really need to do something about that negative, unmotivated, argumentative attitude and grow a pair, if you want a crack at a decent longhaul job one day and all the perks that go with it. A wise old Qantas training captain said to me in the pub one evening "we know they can do the job or we wouldn't have called them for the interview. What we are interested in is whether we can sit next to them for 12 hours with getting pissed off with them".
Read this thread again in its' entirety and think about it young man ...
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BAe 146-100
Exactly where am I contradicting myself? First you got to be in it, to really know it! For this kind of flying, getting a good base is the most important, as it will take care of the other issues of family life!
I personally know lots of RYR pilots, and not many of them are complaining, they seem also to be making pretty good money - again from the ones I do know, as soon as they got a base close to family, that sealed the deal, there was much less agony left in their minds from than.
Luke SkyToddler, of course I see your point, and believe me, I am not sitting around in the cruise moaning about this stuff, actually not had any problems with any of the captains I have been flying with, rather contrary, even one of them invited me for Christmas when he heard I would be stuck in some xing hotel!
Of course I know, killing the time with studying, but the comes a limit, when you just want to take a few weeks of thinking about studying, when this has consumed your life nearly constantly for the last 3 - 4 years, when you finally managed to reach the first step, you do need a little breather, as specially after doing the line training, every flight being question time, where you have to demonstrate both technical, theoretical and practical skills for various TRI's!
All my TRI's too, was amazing during this period, I found them fair in both their teaching ability, and what they expected from somebody of my level.
What this post is trying to convey, is a couple of things, one is, if you are a late career changer you should maybe be aware of what you letting yourself into, it might not really work with your lifestyle or family.
I knew from the moment I started, I could not be to picky, however some limits I had set myself, some of those was never to do P2F and I would never have moved outside Europe, it would have to be a fairly easy way to commute home!
Besides this, I was pretty much prepared for all. With experience, and getting a better job with better conditions, I would not put these same restrictions in place for a further career, this was the initial step, because I expected that I would be having to come with adverse conditions, and being inexperienced that would be a waste of time, and to far away from family.
magicmick - I know, going on this forums, is a bit like going into the fire with petrol heads, I guess here we are Gasturbine heads, the fact is that so many pilots I have met, who I know have joined my company and other companies, pilots with loads of experience, either military or commercial airline aviation, they do not go around with the attitude of this being their dream job, for ALL of these, who maybe been flying for 5 to 15 years, it's just a job, and you notice that many of these, if they had other ways to make a living of similar money, they would jump at this chance.
But they are locked into this business, not really by choice, but because it is the only skill they have, that will give them a fairly above average lifestyle!
These are my initial observations, even my own attitude during line-training changed, to an attitude that I would do my best, I would not start stressing myself ahead of flights, and go all crazy and getting nervous, whatever happen would happen, either I would be good enough, or not!
I saw others, who was like torpedoes all over the place, constantly reading stuff, studying stuff, running around like headless chickens, nearly with to much stress for themselves, in constant overdrive, and ending up being kicked out of the line-training, due to lack of skills, and this even after the company had paid his TR!
This relaxed attitude I picked up from a few ex-military pilots I met, of course we study, but with so much information, it is a limit of what you can do before things can be overdone, which I sometimes did in my earlier training!
I do understand your situation "magicmick", of course all does depend on our past experience, I can recall when I was around 23 years old, vow.. long time, I used to drive long haul HGV trough Europe, in the start I found it fun, I got to see many places in Europe, but after 6 months sleeping in the Cab all the week, I would have jumped at anything to get away from it!
Flying is not anything, it was what I wanted to do since I was about 11 - 12, and I started when I was 17!
It seems to be very bad thing of me to say that prior to flying I was making very good money, and also now during my work, I get back to UK, and sometimes I make in one evening more than I make with one months work of flying!
Anybody who says we don't do this for the money also, is a fool, because the passion that drives of course is not inspired by money, but the attitude that we should not do it for the money, is the attitude that destroys the industries TC's!
You should not need to go and do a second job to survive, when doing this job, and I blame the current establishment for allowing this to happen, fact is that the minority actually gets a job in the end, and of us who are older, even a smaller minority gets a job!
I am not sure how many here also have children, however this does make a big difference, if you are just a couple, it is much easier to adapt wherever you think can be good, but as soon as children are involved, it is a much more complex picture!
2.5 months I got nearly 200 hours, by end of summer I probably have close to 700 - 800 hours, so of course, the prospects are hopefully promising. The question in the end, with who you want to spend the majority of your time, alone in a hotel or with your family?
Exactly where am I contradicting myself? First you got to be in it, to really know it! For this kind of flying, getting a good base is the most important, as it will take care of the other issues of family life!
I personally know lots of RYR pilots, and not many of them are complaining, they seem also to be making pretty good money - again from the ones I do know, as soon as they got a base close to family, that sealed the deal, there was much less agony left in their minds from than.
Luke SkyToddler, of course I see your point, and believe me, I am not sitting around in the cruise moaning about this stuff, actually not had any problems with any of the captains I have been flying with, rather contrary, even one of them invited me for Christmas when he heard I would be stuck in some xing hotel!
Of course I know, killing the time with studying, but the comes a limit, when you just want to take a few weeks of thinking about studying, when this has consumed your life nearly constantly for the last 3 - 4 years, when you finally managed to reach the first step, you do need a little breather, as specially after doing the line training, every flight being question time, where you have to demonstrate both technical, theoretical and practical skills for various TRI's!
All my TRI's too, was amazing during this period, I found them fair in both their teaching ability, and what they expected from somebody of my level.
What this post is trying to convey, is a couple of things, one is, if you are a late career changer you should maybe be aware of what you letting yourself into, it might not really work with your lifestyle or family.
I knew from the moment I started, I could not be to picky, however some limits I had set myself, some of those was never to do P2F and I would never have moved outside Europe, it would have to be a fairly easy way to commute home!
Besides this, I was pretty much prepared for all. With experience, and getting a better job with better conditions, I would not put these same restrictions in place for a further career, this was the initial step, because I expected that I would be having to come with adverse conditions, and being inexperienced that would be a waste of time, and to far away from family.
magicmick - I know, going on this forums, is a bit like going into the fire with petrol heads, I guess here we are Gasturbine heads, the fact is that so many pilots I have met, who I know have joined my company and other companies, pilots with loads of experience, either military or commercial airline aviation, they do not go around with the attitude of this being their dream job, for ALL of these, who maybe been flying for 5 to 15 years, it's just a job, and you notice that many of these, if they had other ways to make a living of similar money, they would jump at this chance.
But they are locked into this business, not really by choice, but because it is the only skill they have, that will give them a fairly above average lifestyle!
These are my initial observations, even my own attitude during line-training changed, to an attitude that I would do my best, I would not start stressing myself ahead of flights, and go all crazy and getting nervous, whatever happen would happen, either I would be good enough, or not!
I saw others, who was like torpedoes all over the place, constantly reading stuff, studying stuff, running around like headless chickens, nearly with to much stress for themselves, in constant overdrive, and ending up being kicked out of the line-training, due to lack of skills, and this even after the company had paid his TR!
This relaxed attitude I picked up from a few ex-military pilots I met, of course we study, but with so much information, it is a limit of what you can do before things can be overdone, which I sometimes did in my earlier training!
I do understand your situation "magicmick", of course all does depend on our past experience, I can recall when I was around 23 years old, vow.. long time, I used to drive long haul HGV trough Europe, in the start I found it fun, I got to see many places in Europe, but after 6 months sleeping in the Cab all the week, I would have jumped at anything to get away from it!
Flying is not anything, it was what I wanted to do since I was about 11 - 12, and I started when I was 17!
It seems to be very bad thing of me to say that prior to flying I was making very good money, and also now during my work, I get back to UK, and sometimes I make in one evening more than I make with one months work of flying!
Anybody who says we don't do this for the money also, is a fool, because the passion that drives of course is not inspired by money, but the attitude that we should not do it for the money, is the attitude that destroys the industries TC's!
You should not need to go and do a second job to survive, when doing this job, and I blame the current establishment for allowing this to happen, fact is that the minority actually gets a job in the end, and of us who are older, even a smaller minority gets a job!
I am not sure how many here also have children, however this does make a big difference, if you are just a couple, it is much easier to adapt wherever you think can be good, but as soon as children are involved, it is a much more complex picture!
2.5 months I got nearly 200 hours, by end of summer I probably have close to 700 - 800 hours, so of course, the prospects are hopefully promising. The question in the end, with who you want to spend the majority of your time, alone in a hotel or with your family?
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who you want to spend the majority of your time, alone in a hotel or with your family?
Admirable that you want to "enlighten" people about the downsides of the job, but **NEWSFLASH** any remotely intelligent person would have considered this before accepting the job and, more relevantly, long before
£10Ks up against the wall for a job that they find "boring".
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Well guys great arguments , chomping away on my popcorn:-) .
I got into this industry late following a long career as a cop . I was very lucky in that i had a friend who owned a flying school and gave me a job as an instructor . I enjoyed every second of it and have since moved into flying a larger twin on freight and ambulance runs. It pays bugger all forces me to live away from home . I fly in all weathers all conditions all by my lonesome 90% of the time and without any kind of auto's . This is good grass roots flying and i love every second of it . I would love to move into a tp or jet airline as it pays better and would nice to be part of a crew . If ever i get bored or lose interest I just need to think to myself that I could be driving around a town centre waiting to attend the next of societies O2 stealers who has decided to take drugs nick a car beat up his wife/ gf/ kids ( delete as appropriate) suddenly the job seems so much nicer.
We have a great job relish it
I got into this industry late following a long career as a cop . I was very lucky in that i had a friend who owned a flying school and gave me a job as an instructor . I enjoyed every second of it and have since moved into flying a larger twin on freight and ambulance runs. It pays bugger all forces me to live away from home . I fly in all weathers all conditions all by my lonesome 90% of the time and without any kind of auto's . This is good grass roots flying and i love every second of it . I would love to move into a tp or jet airline as it pays better and would nice to be part of a crew . If ever i get bored or lose interest I just need to think to myself that I could be driving around a town centre waiting to attend the next of societies O2 stealers who has decided to take drugs nick a car beat up his wife/ gf/ kids ( delete as appropriate) suddenly the job seems so much nicer.
We have a great job relish it
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For sure better flying than being a cop, cops are probably the dumbest people I know! Without accountability for the crap they make to other peoples lives!
And this is not trolling or a joke, this is dead serious!
And this is not trolling or a joke, this is dead serious!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
For sure better flying than being a cop, cops are probably the dumbest people I know! Without accountability for the crap they make to other peoples lives!
And this is not trolling or a joke, this is dead serious!
And this is not trolling or a joke, this is dead serious!
Epic own goal there.
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Oh dear. There are rotten apples in every barrel, and we have all come across the one who was bullied at school, and the one fresh out of cop school with then newly fitted nickometer, but that is one hell of a generalisation!
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Truckflyer, I'm like you. I'm one of those people who can't stand doing nothing, I fidget, I pick my nose, I stare out the window, I twiddle my thumbs, I can never find anything to keep me interested for long. In short -
I GET UTTERLY BORED AFTER ABOUT TEN MINUTES OF, WELL BOREDOM AND INACTION.
And then I go to work, sit on my arse for hours and I'm never bored. I think the devil at the top of the page is spot on.
I GET UTTERLY BORED AFTER ABOUT TEN MINUTES OF, WELL BOREDOM AND INACTION.
And then I go to work, sit on my arse for hours and I'm never bored. I think the devil at the top of the page is spot on.
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It sounds like poor Truckflyer is getting such bad cabin fever alone in his airport hotel that his tenuous grip on reallity is close to snapping.
Italian TV gameshows and the little bottle of hotel hand lotion maybe?
Nice last post by the way. I think anyone who was still in any doubt can see what we're dealing with here.
How better can I entertain myself than when I am sitting in this X. ing hotel !!
Nice last post by the way. I think anyone who was still in any doubt can see what we're dealing with here.