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I am want to become an airline pilot (Read me if you're 15 years old)

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I am want to become an airline pilot (Read me if you're 15 years old)

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Old 13th Jan 2013, 19:40
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I am want to become an airline pilot (Read me if you're 15 years old)

Hello, I was an avid reader of this forum since I was a young boy, having the dream of becoming an pilot, a sky god flying to wonderful places with the power of Boeing or an Airbus in my hands. I always dreamt that I will be a pilot or at least in training after I graduated from university...well that was the plan. The plan I made after several steps in my teens. However, I am more mature, older and the dream of becoming an airline pilot are replaced with maybe realistic ones.

Like all boys who see a British Airways pilot walk through hallways of Manchester Airport, dreams start to form. My parents hoping that I would become a doctor, changed because I insisted I was going to become a pilot, like that BA pilot. From then I was obsessed, I even remember telling my Careers Advisor I was going to be an airline pilot. I knew more about how to get into the career then him.

However, my main goal was to become a fighter pilot. I joined air cadets and as soon as I turned 16 years old, I went for pilot selection (OASC). This is when your dreams of flying a RAF hawk through a valley disappear. I basically got told the cliche line 'my eyes did not make the cut'. Horrible I know but at least I could still become an airline pilot.

All my focus turned back to becoming an airline pilot but this was in 2006, and airline market was turning silent before the storm. I ordered all the brochures from the nice looking flying schools and read them all night - my dream was still there. However, this is when I learnt about money, that thing that makes the world go round. You never really understand the value of money until you have to earn it yourself. My parents sat me down one night and explained that they just did not have 60k in their bank account and wanted to me to go to university. I am glad they had that conversation with me at 16 years old because you realise the value of money and not being selfish to have your parents re-mortgage their house.

So, after much debating on this forum and with my parents, I went to university to study Computer Science. My dream of being an airline pilot still firmly in the back of my head. I joined the university air squadron, I did not do that much flying because my course was so demanding. However, the plan was to work hard and get a good job. I had my three years at university and had a really good time. In fact I was having such a good time I forgot to check up on PPRUNE and found other exciting careers I could purse. More real dreams to chase, places to live and girls!

Now, let us roll till now, where am I? Well, I have graduated from university with a 1st class hons degree in Computer Science and I have a graduate job waiting for me in April with a Management Consultancy called Accenture. With that job I have a very good salary and a large sign on bonus. I could put all that into my airline pilot training but with the world's economic state and the pilot market - one might purse other sensible dreams.

I basically have all the tools (degree, graduate job and income) to become an airline pilot but I am not that 16 year kid, I am 23 years old and understand the value of money now.

It may seem to you all that I do not have to fire to become an airline pilot but if money was not a factor then I would, and the job market was stable - like the good old days.

I would like to advise all those young 15 year olds, work out how much it would take to become an airline pilot working in Asda or at your airport. Go to university and get a high paid job.

Anyway, just food for thought.

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Old 13th Jan 2013, 20:27
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Great advice. I second everything you have said as someone in a similar position. Very similar story to mine. When I was 15/16 my impatience was such that, despite always achieving in education, I wanted to leave, earn money and start training. Thankfully I was (reluctantly) talked out of it, ending up at university studying Physics.

When I look back now I think it was mad to be in such a rush. I always thought there was nothing out there for me other than to become a pilot. But as you grow and mature, other interests develop and you start to look at things more objectively. There are several things I am interested in doing now, and very few things I couldn't get into - all thanks to my degree. That would have been far from the case had I not been given some perspective by those around me. I'm not saying that my desire to become a pilot has diminished, but it is now kept in check with a dose of reality and maturity. And as rleungz says, with a well paid job now accessible, raising the finance to fly is a more realistic option should I decide to pursue it (which I wouldn't without guarantee of a job for the foreseeable future).

It shouldn't be forgotten that it is just a job, and that it isn't the only worthwhile occupation. Do you really want to spend 45/50 years doing the same thing? Do you want to have no other options should you lose your job or medical? It is this sort of perspective and maturity I would imagine is valued by airline employers anyway. Airlines nowadays desire more traditional management skills and commercial awareness than in the past, and these are the sort of things you can easily develop outside of flying. I'm sure that other experience would make for more interesting and varied mid-cruise conversation as well. So don't rush. Develop yourself before indebting yourself!

And well done on the Accenture gig rleungz!
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Old 13th Jan 2013, 20:51
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My 2p worth.

If you have a well paid job, but still harbour dreams of becoming a pilot, why not use your job as a secure jumping off point and have a crack?

Life isn't all about money. That is something it has taken me until my late twenties to realise.

The partners at the firm I work for earn well in excess of half a million pounds a year, some earn seven figure sums. I've noticed many of them don't seem that happy, as they sell their souls to their jobs. They earn fortunes but buy into a lifestyle that costs a fortune to maintain. A lifestyle that takes its toll after a while. Many are functioning alcoholics, wage slaves with absent kids at boarding school (£20k per year, per child), massive overheads and wives who are probably screwing the personal trainer/tennis coach.

There is a lot to be said for getting a decent backup career going first. It sounds like you're well on the way with that. As you say mortgaging you parents' property would hvae been a terrible option. But now that you're earning, if you have no responsibilities and can afford the training, why not give it a shot?

You're a long time dead.
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 11:33
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When I was 15 I wanted to be a pilot, today I am a pilot. Before anyone starts, my parents couldn't afford that much, I never went to unis and now earn more than all of my friends who went to unis. Its all about determination and hard work, its not easy out there especially where I come from and started, we have to start from the very bottom to reach up the ladder slowly. The mindset of today generation is to get onto the right seat of a jet straight after flight school that is one of the reason why this proffesion is degrading, they overlook the real flying jobs and all they think is if the pilot uniform doesnt come with a cap and suit they think its a job......come on kids, if you want to be a pilot go for it but think about the reality its not easy out there to survive but not impossible.
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 18:22
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Interesting and somewhat contrasting views from rleungz and taxistaxing.

rleungz, lets just see what your view is after 5 years in the IT profession. There is a reason why there are a lot of people like taxistaxing (and myself a few years back) who took the advise of the nay sayers and went into sensible professions, and then realised by their late twenties that office bound jobs are incredibly dull and yearn for something a little more rewarding.

I was in an office bound profession for around 5 years before I said enough was enough. When I first made the change, all my friends and family commented on how I visibly brightened by the change of scene. Indeed, many of the older and senior guys who were in my old job took me aside and quietly told me how much they admired me for making the change "before its too late" and wished they'd done similar, despite the fact they were in the same income bracket as taxistaxing's bosses.

Of course it's not an easy path, and pure random luck will probably be the biggest factor in achieving success, but, nearly 9 years later, i for one am very glad I made the move.

It's usually the career changers who are most happy as pilots. Those who come into commercial aviation direct from school, Uni or the military (ie those who have not witnessed the hell that most people have to endure in the name of work) tend to be the biggest moaners.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 11:39
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I would agree with Artie entirely... When you spend forty hours a week, doing something fundamentally dull, staring at a PC you can tend to look at the world a bit differently.

Now, if you factor in the 'McDonaldisation' and corporate 'BS' of most businesses in the Western world...
Well, this negates the chance of life changing/quality of life improving pay rises in the corporate world. If you went into engineering with a degree and didn't make an active effort to change things, you would still be sat at the same desk you started at - albeit with with 30 years of inflationary pay rises, if you're lucky... by the end of your 'career'.
This is the path of a great number in my profession...
Welcome to the 'rat race'.

I'd fly a garage door with a desk fan attached, if it paid a reasonable wage.

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Old 15th Jan 2013, 21:48
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Well, I am amazed at the replies I have got from this thread. My intention was not to discourage young people of their dream of becoming an airline pilot but to explain my view at 23 years old.

As in my life, I also have goals/dreams and to achieve them I always have steps. I guess for my airline pilot dream I am in step 2 (degree tick, job tick). As most of the replies on here, I am not planning to spend my whole life in consultancy, I do plan on either becoming a pilot or gaining a PhD.

My plan is to work for a couple of years while going modular. I am currently reading all the information on Modular training and seems the best option with the least risk. Though, usual problems with competing with integrated graduates but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

In terms of university, I know there is a split view among the PPRUNEs but I would advise for young ones to go. However, they need to drive to stay focus and gain a well-paid job (banking, accounting or a consultancy). University opens doors to people, into industries were they paid graduates generous starting salaries that one might not get if they did not go to university.

I guess the best way to look at it is, go to university for access to a high paid job/career so you can pay for your training. Plus, university and the endless job search will help you gain experience in interviews, assessment centres and app/CVs.

P.S. University is not an easy ride as well ( most of my friends are still unemployed.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 22:09
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P.S. University is not an easy ride as well ( most of my friends are still unemployed.
Excellent thread indeed.

What subjects did your friends study at University out of curiosity?

I'm currently back at college studying Electrical / Electronic Engineering. Reason being is to get into a well paid job as stated above to fund the flying.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 10:10
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Most of my friends study Computer Science, some of us are lucky to get a job straight after graduation (Citibank, Nissian, Capgemini, IBM, ARM).

However, most have gone onto do Masters or start their own little business. Studying Computer Science makes you want to power the world.

There is also another debate that could be taken here, with the rising fees and endless job-search for that high paid job. Is it better to do a science-based degree or an arty degree? Which one has the best option for a golden job to pay for your training?
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 12:56
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There is also another debate that could be taken here, with the rising fees and endless job-search for that high paid job. Is it better to do a science-based degree or an arty degree? Which one has the best option for a golden job to pay for your training?
It all depends on your motivation for going to uni. If you genuinely have an interest in a particular area of academia you should probably study that. It's a shame that academic study is increasingly just seen as a means to an end, rather than an end in its own right.

That said, if you are going to uni mostly to get a good job, I would say do a rigorous academic subject e.g. history, law, sciences, maths, economics. Beyond that I think degree classification is more important than subject. I know people from all these backgrounds in law firms, professional services firms and investment banks. There are many bankers and accountants with history degrees and lawyers with maths degrees.

Some more specific jobs obviously require quantitative or specialist degrees/further study e.g. IT roles, quant roles in banks, actuarial positions.

Most of these employers will look at A level results as much as degree results, in my experience.

If you just want to earn as much as possible then go for investment banking where graduates start on circa £45k and front office staff (i.e. equity sales/traders/M&A) can be earning six figures by their mid twenties if they do well. Not easy to get into though, high attrition rate and an absolutely brutal environment to work in.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 13:27
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Most of my friends study Computer Science, some of us are lucky to get a job straight after graduation (Citibank, Nissian, Capgemini, IBM, ARM).
Anybody that studies Computer Science most definitely has a big interest in the subject to get through the Degree. I've seen some module work from a CS course and it looks painful. Top Degree to get though!
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 14:44
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Most of these employers will look at A level results as much as degree results, in my experience.
To further this, having relevant work experience or any for that matter. As part of my degree I took a placement year, so I did not have to fuss around in my final year trying to look for a job.

Anybody that studies Computer Science most definitely has a big interest in the subject to get through the Degree. I've seen some module work from a CS course and it looks painful. Top Degree to get though!
In most of my lectures I sat there thinking 'Dude, what is this guy going on about? All I want is to make a video game....'
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 18:59
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RLEUNGZ - great thread. My few cents worth, from a few years down the road.

I don't have a degree, but I do have a job in the IT field, with a company whom a good percentage of the worlds population would recognise immediately and it pays very good money. The company you are going to work for is one of our suppliers - I don't know anyone who has been there for 5 years. I'm struggling to think of many that have been there 2 actually

Take the money, learn new skills, especially learn from your customers, most of them will have 10x the experience you have - listening is a valuable skill.

Many of the people you will deal with on a day to day basis will hate you. Business to business there is undoubtedly value, the people you will interact with on a daily basis will see you as vastly overpaid and under qualified and won't understand that you see next to nothing of your daily rate.

Save at least half of what you earn. If you can't do it you are not being paid enough or you are spending too much.

Your colleagues will gladly stab you in the back to be the next up the ladder.

You won't have the time to do a Modular ATPL theory course properly (learning the material not the QB answers) for a few years, however you should have the money to do a PPL and do some real 'experience' flying - into Europe etc, which the 250hr RHS or MPL student will never have. Spend some on aeros, get an IMC (will save you excess hours on your IR later for less money) etc.

Hopefully you won't end up, putting in the 85 plus hour weeks, becoming a functioning alcoholic and with a mortgage the size of Everest on a flat the size of a shoe box, but the trail is littered with them.

Thankfully after a brief reality check and almost getting suckered by the nasty corporate octopus, I am close to finishing all of my ATPL theory exams and won't be borrowing a penny for my CPL/ME/IR this year.

Best of luck with your dream.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 19:34
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Well, I am amazed at the replies I have got from this thread. My intention was not to discourage young people of their dream of becoming an airline pilot but to explain my view at 23 years old.

As in my life, I also have goals/dreams and to achieve them I always have steps. I guess for my airline pilot dream I am in step 2 (degree tick, job tick). As most of the replies on here, I am not planning to spend my whole life in consultancy, I do plan on either becoming a pilot or gaining a PhD.
Ah well, fair enough! Gaining a graduate job at Accenture (especially in these time) is undoubtably a great achievement, but having worked in a not dissimilar job, I can confirm Whiskey Bravo's description of the life is depressingly reminiscent; the long hours, the backstabbing, the daily alcohol misuse, the attrition, the inherent dullness of the work...

Keep whatever dream you have alive and don't fall for the big corporate trap - by the time most realise their mistake they are married, with kids and a huge mortgage. (Unless of course, you turn out to genuinely enjoy it )
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 19:38
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Whiskey Bravo - who do you say have + 85 hour week?

You mean they in average of 7 days work over 12 hours a day? hmmm...

Try this schedule for a week or so, wake up 3.30, back in some strange country hotel or apartment at 17.00, talk to wife and daughter on Skype - fall asleep at 20.00 to be awake again at 3.30 - try that for a week non stop, and tell me what you think you would prefer?

You talking because you don't know, one day you might get to know, but than it will be to late!

You not working all those hours, but all those hours are due to you performing your duties, but it works out at least 80+ hours in a week! And you probably make 1/3 of the IT guy to do the same time of work!

Than of course it get's more fun, when you have gusting cross winds of 35 kts, snowstorms and god knows what!
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 21:07
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I'm not sure the two worlds are that far apart and Truckflyr is correct in that I don't have experience of doing it day in - day out, but I have been (lucky) enough to jump-seat night freight work, so I maybe have 1/100th of an idea. Yes, I was hanging in my straps making the last approach of the night, but I had by then been up for 28 hours, to get a 'regular' workday in first.

I'll be grateful to leave what I have done behind and give something different a go and be glad that what I've had I didn't piss up the wall (too much). Thankfully my hard earned (or however you choose to think of it) won't be going the way of CTC/FTE/CAE and if nothing else I'll come out a vaguely competent IFR pilot and go do something else.

I didn't post to say that my job is harder than anyones or vice versa, simply to contribute to the thread and make people think, perhaps once a year whether they are doing is what they really want....
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 21:34
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I know what you mean, on that journey though I have seen many find out that thinking what they wanted, and what they actually wanted, was 2 different things! However some times, by the time they found it out, it was to late.

Actually just reminded me, one friend of mine, FI, got kicked out by his girlfriend, until he either found a real job or went back to his old job, where he could actually make enough money to live!

Of course there is more to life than money, but there is also more to life than flying! You might not believe this now, but.... you will hopefully get the chance to discover this too!
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 08:04
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You mean they in average of 7 days work over 12 hours a day? hmmm...
14 hours a day Monday to Friday, including maybe an all nighter mid week, with a few hours stuffed in on the weekend, could easily add up to circa 85 hours a week.

Why do you think those shoebox sized flats in London are worth so much money? A lot of these City types literally don't have time to commute.

I remember going to a friends party in a flat overlooking Docklands. He, and most of the guests were doctors. I met a locum GP who was in a similar situation to me-paid a lot of money for relatively little work and we both looked at Canary Wharf on a Sunday evening discussing whether we regretted not going after the bigger money available in finance. The GP said, "it's Sunday evening and look, all the lights are on in Canary Wharf, I wonder why...".
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 10:18
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Interesting thread.

Throughout my short time involved in aviation I have seen quite a few early 20s embark on commercial training with only school qualifications and no real prior working experience. I think at that age there is this feeling of 'I will be a pilot no matter what' However, I believe it is worthwhile gaining a non-flying related qualification and subsequently getting a few years working experience under your belt.

I agree that there has to be a sensible degree choice with good opportunity to gain employment, and times are no doubt harder these days on the graduate recruitment front. I know of one engineering firm who had over 1200 applicants for 18 graduate posts, the starting salary on offer for graduates was £35k. Although. as per previous posts you will find investment bankers, consultants etc with a wide variety of degrees so a particular degree does not necessarily pigeon-hole the individual. Whereas a CPL/IR can in most cases only be applied in one field. Therefore it is a bit of risk embarking on commercial flight training without any real back-up career / experience.

Once established one can then follow the modular route keeping risk as low as reasonably practical. There is always that risk that one will become comfortable in their current career, good salary, benefits, work/life balance etc and with the current economic problems and news of constantly declining terms and conditions in the airline industry it can become a difficult choice, but at least a choice exists.

There is no right or wrong way of doing it so this is merely my humble opinion.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 10:41
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Once established one can then follow the modular route keeping risk as low as reasonably practical. There is always that risk that one will become comfortable in their current career, good salary, benefits, work/life balance etc and with the current economic problems and news of constantly declining terms and conditions in the airline industry it can become a difficult choice, but at least a choice exists.
I think you've summed up my future plan.

Last edited by rleungz; 17th Jan 2013 at 10:43.
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