Questions about ATPL Theory

[4535jacks]

I am looking to start my ATPL theory in the next 12 months but I have a few questions first:

1. Is there a time limit between completing ATPL Theory and completing CPL/MEIR?

2. Is each exam valid for a certain period only and hence from start to finish, do you need to complete all exams within a certain time frame?

3. Is it recommended to complete the ATPL Theory with the same FTO you intend to do CPL and MEIR with?

4. Is there a recommended method of studying ATPL Theory (IPad, hardcopy or CD ROM)?

5. Can anyone recommend a good FTO to do ATPL Theory with by distance learning and possibly using an IPad as I travel regularly and it would also fit nicely into my flight bag.

Thanks in advance

Gary

[mad_jock]

If you do a wen search for Lasors it has every answer in it. It has been superseeded by EASA but in general the rules haven't changed that much

My suggestion would be.

Get the said document

On a bit of paper list out what you will need to do. List the time limits.

Then make a plan.

Remember to factor in for doing a resit or two.

[taxistaxing]

From date of first exam you have 18 months to complete all 14 subjects, in a maximum of 6 sittings.

As MJ says its all available via google but to start you off:

From completion of your exams you then have 36months to complete CPL/MEIR and (I think) Mcc to obtain frozen atpl.

I'm using cats online as its the cheapest and offers flexibility - you can do the exams in 3 stages rather than 2 most FFTOs require which allows me to fit it around work. The notes aren't brilliant so if you go with them I would suggest getting hold of some Bristol notes.

You will (if you have any sense) make use of the various question
banks available which you can subscribe to. Most of these are available on iPad.

No restrictions to my knowledge on which ground school you attend (so long as it is CAA accredited) and no requirement to do your flying at the same place.

[4535jacks]

Thanks for the advice, an initial bit of research brought up 3 training providers that look particularly interesting:

1. Bristol - £2140
2. Oxford - £1500
3. CATS - £999

There do seem to be much continuity in these prices! Do the prices reflect the training offered and is one company known to be better then its competitors?

I have heard of Bristol and Oxford's study guide around the GA world but which do people think are better.

I like the idea of the IPad study guides offered by Bristol but there are other ipad guides availbile ssuch as pro pilot -£2100, but I haven't seen many posts about them in this forum.

I would appreciate it if anyone could share their experiences of these GS's or post a link to an existing thread.

Regards

Gary

[Morris542]

1 + 2 have been answered

3. You can do ATPL theory with any school, and CPL + MEIR with any school. The benefit of staying with the same school is that you may well get a better relationship with the school, and they will get to know your strengths and weaknesses. But you don't have to it all with the same FTO.

4. Whatever is best for you. Some people prefer all software (not me), others prefer books (me). Some like distance learning, others full time residential courses. Only you know what is best for yourself.

5. I've just started with Bristol and am impressed so far. I think they have software for Ipad.

[Morris542]

1. Bristol - £2140
2. Oxford - £1500
3. CATS - £999

Check Oxford again! You have to do 2 weeks brush up, each costing around £300 from memory...

Oxford: £2100.

[tiger88]

Pro pilot is a worthy contender. I used their notes on the IPad and for the most part it's pretty good, similar to Bristol. Believe it's also in 3 modules. Few posts about Pro Pilot on the forum so have a search. Don't think you can go wrong with Bristol either, they have good notes some of which I also used.

I have only heard bad things about CATS from people I have met who used them but can't vouch from my own experience.

As pointed out most of the info you are after is in Lasors or the new EASA licensing CAP 804 and off course on this forum and google.

[Poose]

Does the MCC have to be completed within that 36 month period, post final ATPL exam?

I always thought that the MCC was a precursor to your first Type Rating - but not necessary for the 'fATPL'? So no time limit on it...

Anyone?

[appfo09]

Yes, you are absolutely correct Poose there are no limits MCC does not count.

[fwjc]

I used CATS distance learning, got on fine (first time passes all subjects taken within 9 months of each other) - that's as well as full time job plus a couple of other part time jobs etc etc.

I think any school is what you make of it. If you put the effort in you'll get the results back out. If you're able to self motivate there's no reason why you shouldn't get decent results with CATS. What is good is that responses to email questions are usually pretty quick, the full time team are really knowledgable and the guest lecturers are a good laugh as well as being able to impart a real sense of what's happening out there in the big wide world.

I haven't heard of any school with a really bad reputation, so I would weigh up the following issues:

1) How many groups of exams does the school use? Some work to two sets of sittings, which works well for some people who want to get the pain over and done with. Others use three, which spreads the pain but works better for getting leave from work etc.

2) Where is the school relative to where you live? If you can pop in easily, that's a good thing, even for distance learning.

3) Costs - what do you get for the money? I bought the books too so my course cost £1600. That also included the full online versions plus study notes plus the in-house online question bank etc. I also used one of the other well known question banks, and the CATS IPhone app.

I still have my books, and in fact will be returning to them this week to brush up for a small project I'm working on, so I'm glad I have them.

Colleagues also bought material from other schools to use. Sometimes one explanation makes more sense than another explanation, so it's useful to have other versions available. I noticed the same thing going on at other schools I've visited including some of the more expensive ones, so it's not an indication of a failing. I think it's more to do with human nature and one text book isn't going to be able to explain everything to everyone in the way that each individual relates to.

Another colleague is presently using the Pro-Pilot App and seems to be getting on well with it. It looks very shiny and lovely and I think the animations are good for some concepts. But it still suffers from being a single explanation, so if something doesn't click you're still going to have to look elsewhere. Plus you pay extra for the shiny niceness. If you can afford it, and it sounds good to you, do it. The whole process is pretty painful, so anything that makes it easier has to be good.

I am trying to keep my costs to a minimum, within reason, hence the choice for CATS with books. I don't regret the choice of school or buying the books, even though they're now technically out of date since they're JAA and not EASA - most of the stuff that matters (Bernoullis!) remains the same. Don't forget the exam fees add around another £1000 plus there are accommodation fees for both the brush-up courses and the exams.


Good luck with whatever you decide.

[BillieBob]

I always thought that the MCC was a precursor to your first Type Rating - but not necessary for the 'fATPL'?

In as much as there is no such thing as a 'fATPL', you are correct. Convention has it that the illusory fATPL comprises a CPL/IR, ATPL theoretical knowledge and MCC (i.e. everything required to commence a MP type rating course and commence line training).

[Beau-Angel]

Hi.
Just thought I would pass on my experiences from when I were a lad.... I used CATS for my studies and found them great. That was a few years ago, but I did pop in a year or two ago in their then-new premises in Luton and they were still providing great training. I saw they had an iPhone/iPod app out that was useful, and dare say there are many more good things to come, knowing how the team there are creative with utilising new tech.
I studied on the in-house course as I needed an extra hand at the time to get my head around Gen Nav. Looking back on it I don't know what all the fuss was about
I also have my manuals from the course that I periodically peer into when I need to. You will usually learn something new in aviation everyday. Especially as EASA kicks in.
It is a good idea to go and have a look at the schools you short list. Have a chat with the students there to see what they have experienced so far.
Where ever you decide to go, try to have an enjoyable time of it and go flying once in a while to remind yourself why you're putting yourself through the madness of the ATPL exams.

[taxistaxing]

I think any school is what you make of it. If you put the effort in you'll get the results back out. If you're able to self motivate there's no reason why you shouldn't get decent results with CATS. What is good is that responses to email questions are usually pretty quick, the full time team are really knowledgable and the guest lecturers are a good laugh as well as being able to impart a real sense of what's happening out there in the big wide world.

I would completely agree with the above. Some of my own thoughts on CATS below. I should say these are my own opinion, but also shared by some others on the brush-up I attended recently.

Overall my experience of CATS was a mixed bag. The brush-up courses are a bit lax - no joining instructions are sent with the result that I (and a couple of others) arrived at Luton at around 0800 on the first day, only to find that the instructors/staff roll in around 0930. In fact on some days teaching didn't really get going until 10 or so. I felt more could have been achieved in the time. You're booted out at 1730 sharp as that's when the office complex shuts, so I should have thought starting around 0830 would have been better.

The venue itself is very nice. A modern office complex in a slightly soulless industrial estate in Luton but with a decent on-site cafe. Easy to get to from the station for those commuting and accommodation close by for those staying (Luton is well connected by rail, you can comfortably commute from London). I understand there is the option (at additional cost) to attend brush-up courses in Gatwick. I haven't done this so can't comment on the Gatwick venue.

In terms of the course itself, the instructors were again a mixed bag. The CGI (Dan) was excellent. He seemed knowledgeable, and well prepared for the subjects he taught us. A couple of the 'guest' lecturers were clearly less well prepared. I don't want to name names but one in particular was very out of his depth, and actually gave a few explanations which then turned out to be wrong on a close reading of the notes.

That said, I felt some of the other students put on a pretty poor showing. From some of the questions that were asked it was obvious that some had done very little pre-reading. The brush up is, after all, a course meant to consolidate your own learning. If you turn up without having read anything on the subjects you can't expect to get much out of it. Quite a lot of time was wasted explaining the very basics which clearly wasn't the fault of the school.

The CATS notes as I eluded to in my previous post, weren't brilliant in my opinion (although some others had used them and seemed happy with them). I bought some Bristol notes second hand and used these. On an inspection side-by-side with the CATS notes the BGS ones are clearer in my opinion.

As another poster mentions above, having access to more than one school's notes is a good idea as invariably each will have different strengths and having concepts explained in several different ways definitely helps with understanding.

I have also found the email support helpful and responsive.

Overall I would recommend CATS - with the qualification that I wouldn't rely solely on their notes, and on the basis that you're prepared to put the work in yourself to really understand the topics before attending the brush- ups. The flexibility and low price outweighs the disadvantages in my opinion.