CPL exams & IR exams and associated ground school

[BARThompson]

Dear all,

I am PPL with IMC and c.200 hours. I would like to progress my experience & training so looking at both CPL & IR as next step. I should say at this point, I am not interested in becoming an airline pilot. I fly for fun and as a hobby - the reason for doing these courses is therefore as I said - experience and training, not to get an ATPL or a job.

A key consideration for me then is the ground studies and specifically the time taken to complete them. I have a full time job (Monday to Friday) and only get 4-5 working weeks of holiday so any attendance during the week erodes holiday time with the family which is undesirable.

So I have two questions if I may...

1. Firstly, the ATPL exams consist of 14 exams. However, if I only wanted a CPL it would only be 9 exams and if I only wanted an IR it would be 7. How many exams would I need to take to take to be able to do a CPL and IR seperately? Is there a beneficial order in which to do them? Ie CPL first or IR first? I expect many people are going to say 'just do all 14 ATPLs' which is fine. But keen to hear if doing fewer exams is possible given my ultimate goals?

2. Secondly, where do you recommend I do the ground studies for these courses? I know Bristol (for example) only does an ATPL course. Any suggestions/recommendations?

Many thanks in advance

[RTN11]

Referring to LASORS, it looks like you would get a cross credit on the comms papers, Air Law and HPL.

I'm not 100% familiar with the CPL/IR exams route, but from what I can see on CPL/IR exams there is one navigation paper, where ATPL this splits into Gen Nav and Radio Nav.

I would recommend you do the full ATPL exams. You will probably find the training package slightly cheaper, since all the exams are in one package, and you will find the online question banks more comprehensive since this is what most schools are geared up for.

You may find you end up learning a lot more stuff about operational procedures, and jet engines which you may never use, but on the other hand if in 5-10 years time you suddenly change your mind, you would already have the ATPL exams under your belt. Otherwise there would be more groundschool in the future.

[paco]

I would suggest you talk to Roger Henshaw at GTS in Bournemouth - I believe he is the only one doing CPL(A) by distance learning anyhow.

I would keep away from the ATPL - if you take the CPL then IR route, your IR studies will be 30-40% what you just studied.

Good luck

[CATS Support]

Some of the above information is not correct.

Firstly there are 13 CPL exams not 9
There are 7 IR with a reduced syllabus now

Question banks and materials are up to date for the new syllabus exams for CPL and IR certainly at those schools who provide such courses.

I would recommend that you do ATPL

Contact the specific CPL and IR theory schools directly if you require more info

[paco]

There's too much information in the ATPL, certainly on the AGK side for the purpose intended. To a certain extent, I would recommend that you just do the IR, except that if you go onto a twin later some of the technical knowledge from the CPL would be useful, especially if you only have the usual knowledge typical of a UK PPL - i.e. hardly any.

BTW, it looks as if, as a holder of a CPL, you might now be exempt Met and HPL on the IR (meaning only 5 exams), but check the new regs.

CAP804 Section 4, Part L, Appendix 1, A 4 says:

4.1 An applicant for an IR having passed the relevant theoretical examinations for a CPL in the same aircraft category is credited towards the theoretical knowledge requirements in the following subjects:

– Human Performance
– Meteorology

[markkal]

Hi, I got a theoretical Jar-CPL in 2007, a a step towards the fi(A) -completed- This theoretical CPL seems to lapse after 3 years if not asociated with the practical part.

I've heard that if associated to an IR it is valid 7 years, but don't know under which conditions.

If not, does it mean I need to retake all the exams, no credit whatsoever ??
And attend the CPL classes again ???

The big issue for having to do it all over is those 14'000 + multiple choice questions database, a nightmare especially those unrelated to what will be required exercising the privileges of the rating.

Aside from those subjects which were of personal interest, and those relevant to the practical CPL, I remember back in 2006 when I spent months rehearsing and repeating the questionnaire, which gave me the impression that the whole issue was not to transmit and confirm knowledge ( with exceptions) but rather to put you in a position to pass the test. Proof of this is that one tend's to forget the most part of it.

[paco]

If you do the ATPL exams, they are valid for seven years provided you get the IR within three years. I believe the CPL is a licence in its own right - but I'm not sure whether it's also seven years.

[liam548]

Originally Posted by paco

If you do the ATPL exams, they are valid for seven years provided you get the IR within three years. I believe the CPL is a licence in its own right - but I'm not sure whether it's also seven years.

Is this correct, I have never read it before. 7 years only validility for ATPLs even with getting your IR within 36 months following exam completion?

[paco]

FCL.025(2) The completion of the airline transport pilotlicence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:

(i) An IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) In the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.

So, it is possible that if you get the IR after say three years, you then have another seven years, so ten years in all? Who knows? I believe CAP 804 has been rewritten several times of late

[BillieBob]

Nothing to do with CAP 804, which is, if anything, less accurate than LASORS was. These things are now, thankfully, out of the hands of the UK CAA.

The theoretical knowledge examinations, either at CPL, IR or ATPL level, are valid for 36 months (from the day that the last examination paper is successfully completed) for the issue of a CPL or IR. In the case of the ATPL exams only, and provided that the IR is issued within the 36 month period, the exams will remain valid for issue of an ATPL for 7 years from the last validity date of the IR.

[Alex Whittingham]

If you do a CPL and an IR you need to do 13 exams for the CPL and 7 for the IR = two courses and 20 exams, and you still will not have the ATPL theory credit which is required if you ever want to fly multi-crew aircraft in excess of 5700kg MAUM. This is why most people take the 14 ATPL exams straight off - they cover the CPL theory for licence issue, the IR theory for IR issue and give you the ATPL theory credit for multi crew aircraft. Granted the syllabus is a bit deeper but it is considerably less hassle and you get the ATPL theory credit which you will need if you ever do change your mind and go for an airline job.

[paco]

So, you have ten years then, with judicious timing. More than that actually. I only mentioned CAP 804 as an example of the dog's breakfast the whole thing is.

Phil

[liam548]

7 years to get an ATPL issued, once it is issued it is issued and you just have to keep it current, correct?

[paco]

That's about it.

Phil