Stop moaning and P2F or get out
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Learjet,
Although I understand your criticism against those moaning about their failures in some way, but still I think they require some sympathy, as P2F is one of the reasons they actually failed. There's nothing wrong with people telling their life experience, which actually you can use for your own benefit - not making their mistakes.
Neither do I agree with the fact, that flying is for rich. It's not if you plan everything correctly, and P2F is not something you inevitably have to do to succeed.
I also do agree with City Flyer about the maturity. You can buy experience with P2F, but you can't buy maturity. Because its not only about experience in the cockpit, but also about experience in life. Seriously, I would rather trust a pilot in late fourties who got his place in the cockpit through long and hard work, searching for opportunities and making small steps to his career, rather than a young guy in his twenties, who got experience through P2F. No offense to anyone. I hope that experienced guys will back me up here, that sometimes when it comes to important decisions, its not only about knowing the handbook, but also about knowing life. So - the more responsible job is, the more mature you have to be to do it.
Although I understand your criticism against those moaning about their failures in some way, but still I think they require some sympathy, as P2F is one of the reasons they actually failed. There's nothing wrong with people telling their life experience, which actually you can use for your own benefit - not making their mistakes.
Neither do I agree with the fact, that flying is for rich. It's not if you plan everything correctly, and P2F is not something you inevitably have to do to succeed.
I also do agree with City Flyer about the maturity. You can buy experience with P2F, but you can't buy maturity. Because its not only about experience in the cockpit, but also about experience in life. Seriously, I would rather trust a pilot in late fourties who got his place in the cockpit through long and hard work, searching for opportunities and making small steps to his career, rather than a young guy in his twenties, who got experience through P2F. No offense to anyone. I hope that experienced guys will back me up here, that sometimes when it comes to important decisions, its not only about knowing the handbook, but also about knowing life. So - the more responsible job is, the more mature you have to be to do it.
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pudoc - I dont preach P2F, I was looking through a lot of threads of people distrote, angry and had lost a lot of money and given up hope, some saying ive been waiting up to 5-6 years and no sniff of a job interview.
it would seem these guys would have perhaps had employment by now if they had P2F. so the message P2F or get out was valid, some people don't see my point of view, but perhaps they dont care for new pilots getting in to avaition.
I am fortunate to be able to work for family, but that is the only reason I trained in the 1st place, I had a good job before I left for Australia, however I have learned more about this industry on PPRUNE than anywhere else and my thoughts on this thread are a collection of what I have read over a few months.
it would seem these guys would have perhaps had employment by now if they had P2F. so the message P2F or get out was valid, some people don't see my point of view, but perhaps they dont care for new pilots getting in to avaition.
I am fortunate to be able to work for family, but that is the only reason I trained in the 1st place, I had a good job before I left for Australia, however I have learned more about this industry on PPRUNE than anywhere else and my thoughts on this thread are a collection of what I have read over a few months.
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Actually bud, what you know of the industry at the moment is exactly nothing.
You don't have RHS, which means you don't even begin to know the first thing about the job, a friend of mine would tell you quite comfortably that at the moment you're less than useless because you're not even through basic training, when you get your rating you'll be effing useless and after a couple of hundred hours you'll get upgraded to being just plain useless. When you reach "satisfactory" you'll be close to being ready for LHS.
You need to have a bit of humility, it will help you in that tiny cockpit you'll be flying because when Daddy/Uncle isn't there to look after you there is only you and the Captain, trust me that's the hardest part of the job
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So many guys that have little experience say they see the big picture but really they know the square root of FA. Start understanding that's where you are and you'll be well set at the start of your career.
I stand by what I say, you have a job for as long as you're flying and being paid, just because it's family doesn't mean it's secure, only that you're not going to be pushed out by someone Peeing to Eff
You don't have RHS, which means you don't even begin to know the first thing about the job, a friend of mine would tell you quite comfortably that at the moment you're less than useless because you're not even through basic training, when you get your rating you'll be effing useless and after a couple of hundred hours you'll get upgraded to being just plain useless. When you reach "satisfactory" you'll be close to being ready for LHS.
You need to have a bit of humility, it will help you in that tiny cockpit you'll be flying because when Daddy/Uncle isn't there to look after you there is only you and the Captain, trust me that's the hardest part of the job
.So many guys that have little experience say they see the big picture but really they know the square root of FA. Start understanding that's where you are and you'll be well set at the start of your career.
I stand by what I say, you have a job for as long as you're flying and being paid, just because it's family doesn't mean it's secure, only that you're not going to be pushed out by someone Peeing to Eff
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Not everything is hours
I would like to state firstly that anyone who has a job lined up on a biz jet before he has even finished training shouldn't be telling everyone else how the industry works.
After starting aviation late and taking literally years to land my first job I have finally made it to a position where I have some input into hiring and firing. I saw a Resume yesterday that was such a mess I had to ask if it was serious. The boss said it was and he had interviewed the guy as a walk in. We were actually looking for someone and he rolled in and asked for a job. He was ferrying a plane through our area and had stopped for lunch. He later sent in his Resume which unfortunately got him un hired. Now this guy seems capable of doing ferries but his written skills were so sub standard we wouldn't be able to let him work commercial ops.
Also got a resume from a guy who had paid for multi engine piston time on a type we operate. We know he paid cause it was all ICUS and from a company that is well known for the practice. He could fly the plane but his situational awareness and radio work were poor. He didn't get a job. We took on a 300 hour guy who could spell, spoke without saying the word like 15 times a sentence and wore clothing you would expect for an interview.
All this is leading to the point that having the minimum 500 or whatever hours on type wont get you a job if your not a good all round package. Now some P2f ers will get a job at the end cause they will have the all round package but couldn't get that first break. The majority will be where they were before because maybe it was the personal attribute side that was holding them back. Not the low hours.
I started my CPL training with about 20 others and I think 6 of us have flying jobs. Two of those 6 had jobs lined up before they started. I asked one of my old instructors a couple of years ago if he knew who of us would land a job and who wouldn't. He reeled off the names of the 6 who I mentioned before and only one guy he thought would be hired wasn't. He said they know within the first 6 weeks who will make it.
After starting aviation late and taking literally years to land my first job I have finally made it to a position where I have some input into hiring and firing. I saw a Resume yesterday that was such a mess I had to ask if it was serious. The boss said it was and he had interviewed the guy as a walk in. We were actually looking for someone and he rolled in and asked for a job. He was ferrying a plane through our area and had stopped for lunch. He later sent in his Resume which unfortunately got him un hired. Now this guy seems capable of doing ferries but his written skills were so sub standard we wouldn't be able to let him work commercial ops.
Also got a resume from a guy who had paid for multi engine piston time on a type we operate. We know he paid cause it was all ICUS and from a company that is well known for the practice. He could fly the plane but his situational awareness and radio work were poor. He didn't get a job. We took on a 300 hour guy who could spell, spoke without saying the word like 15 times a sentence and wore clothing you would expect for an interview.
All this is leading to the point that having the minimum 500 or whatever hours on type wont get you a job if your not a good all round package. Now some P2f ers will get a job at the end cause they will have the all round package but couldn't get that first break. The majority will be where they were before because maybe it was the personal attribute side that was holding them back. Not the low hours.
I started my CPL training with about 20 others and I think 6 of us have flying jobs. Two of those 6 had jobs lined up before they started. I asked one of my old instructors a couple of years ago if he knew who of us would land a job and who wouldn't. He reeled off the names of the 6 who I mentioned before and only one guy he thought would be hired wasn't. He said they know within the first 6 weeks who will make it.
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Dan for someone acusing me of knowing nothing of the industry your claim that there is no RT or LT hand seat in the cockpit says it all.
I have heard all I need to hear, thankyou and good bye
I have heard all I need to hear, thankyou and good bye
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Well it is to be hoped that June is indeed the month you complete your training, and not the name of the Captain you will be flying with!
Do you remember this from last months offering?
Do you remember this from last months offering?
I often think it is a bad idea to have a mixed sex cockpit on a long haul flight as there is a danger of sexual actions being carried out and the plane could stall whilst in auto pilot!
this may seem silly to some, but human beings can become very open minded when stuck in a cockpit for 8 hours with an attractive male/female next to them.
I say its a matter of time before an accident could occur due to this.
this may seem silly to some, but human beings can become very open minded when stuck in a cockpit for 8 hours with an attractive male/female next to them.
I say its a matter of time before an accident could occur due to this.
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grow up mate, that was one of the best topics on PPRUNE in months, I am a hero in most people eyes for starting that thread, so the jokes on you for mocking it
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grow up mate
I am a hero in most people eyes for starting that thread
Hi Finally had a 1st Solo flight today its was perhaps not as exciting as I would have thought having already logged 60 hours, however it was not with out incident with a runway change half an hour in to the circuits.all in all it was a great experince however was slightly spoiled at the end due to crossing an active runway without a clearance!! I wont be doing that anytime soon.
obviuosly I wont be completing my course until the end of the year, but I have been concerned with employment from the start.
I finish my training in June and have a job flying the Citation 550 out of Cambridge UK for corporate travel
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Having a crack here this guy is hilarious (and how the hell do you solo at 60 hours?? Anybody picked that up? At that point, you should just give up flying altogether!!)
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here there looking for a new cheif pilot at a major airline, what's that you want me to lay down the law and fire people who dont see things your way? well I aint that dude bye bye baby bye bye......whats that? you've changed your mind and your now looking for a leader of men if so facto women too...where do I sign
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Reading the last offering, I have to ask. Are you on drugs?
I am not sure if it is the inane ramblings, the inept spelling and grammer, or just the simple implausibility of your posts, that suggests you are just a little bit of a fantasist. That, or perhaps a bored 15 year old!
I have to wonder at the qualification for all this advice you give out.
31/01/12
01/02/12
01/02/12
01/02/12
03/02/12
23/04/12
23/04/12
Obviously I didn't bother rehashing your rather pubescent views on female pilots as they have clearly established your "hero" status in your own mind.
There are some glaring contradictions in your short posting history. You are supposedly in the unusual position of being able to fly for your family, with the job on completion of training simply "a formality." That does rather beg the question why a family with the financial resources to operate a Cessna 550 apparently skimped on your education. Rather odd as well that they would send you to (with all due respect) Melbourne, to do a pilots licence that would not seem to be of much use to you in the United Kingdom. However all that aside, if you only started training because of the family connections and guarantees, why were you claiming on the 01st of February, that you were all ready to quit because there were no jobs at the end of training?
I am not sure if it is the inane ramblings, the inept spelling and grammer, or just the simple implausibility of your posts, that suggests you are just a little bit of a fantasist. That, or perhaps a bored 15 year old!
I have to wonder at the qualification for all this advice you give out.
31/01/12
I took the the CASA CPL exam for Human Factors and Limitions today, but sadly after a tense wait for the exam result to come up it showed a FAIL and 68% so only a few marks off a pass.( I get so scared to submit the exam! dont know why)
Hi There,
I took my CPL Navigation exam today only to be told I had failed.
The issue I have is I marked down on a bit of paper the answers that I 100% knew were correct my total of 100% sure answers came to a total of 27 marks this would have given a minimum of 67% and then a few I am not quite sure about and a handful I plan and simple didnt know.
so when I get the final score of 45% I am feeling robbed!
Is the system designed to fail students at the 1st attemp in order to gain and extra $150 from them when they resit?
any one else had issues with the cyber exams?
I took my CPL Navigation exam today only to be told I had failed.
The issue I have is I marked down on a bit of paper the answers that I 100% knew were correct my total of 100% sure answers came to a total of 27 marks this would have given a minimum of 67% and then a few I am not quite sure about and a handful I plan and simple didnt know.
so when I get the final score of 45% I am feeling robbed!
Is the system designed to fail students at the 1st attemp in order to gain and extra $150 from them when they resit?
any one else had issues with the cyber exams?
not trying to mug casa off, but I know I got a minimum of 67% so I think there may be something wrong, these exams are expensive, mayby there is a trick here, money spinner etc
The avaition industry is going down hill! why I hear you ask well here are a few key pointers!
P.S I was in training to be part of this joke of an industry but I have since changed my mind, its a complete waste of time.
1.) rip of training companys puting new pilots in to debt for the best part of there life
2.) no job at the end of training
3.) competetion for jobs as fierce as any other industry
4.) like waiting in a long line to see an attraction its usually not worth the wait
lots of negative views on here, it seems that the passion I originally got for flying will have to remain a hobby for me. I dont want any part of this rat race.
Who pays the companys and airlines so they can work for them?? this is crazy!
P.S I was in training to be part of this joke of an industry but I have since changed my mind, its a complete waste of time.
1.) rip of training companys puting new pilots in to debt for the best part of there life
2.) no job at the end of training
3.) competetion for jobs as fierce as any other industry
4.) like waiting in a long line to see an attraction its usually not worth the wait
lots of negative views on here, it seems that the passion I originally got for flying will have to remain a hobby for me. I dont want any part of this rat race.
Who pays the companys and airlines so they can work for them?? this is crazy!
Jets are boaring in my opinion, real flying is in a light aircraft with 18 KTS cross wind and landing on the centre line.
I am fortunate to be able to work for family, but that is the only reason I trained in the 1st place
job does not start until june but aircraft is owned by family so its a formality
There are some glaring contradictions in your short posting history. You are supposedly in the unusual position of being able to fly for your family, with the job on completion of training simply "a formality." That does rather beg the question why a family with the financial resources to operate a Cessna 550 apparently skimped on your education. Rather odd as well that they would send you to (with all due respect) Melbourne, to do a pilots licence that would not seem to be of much use to you in the United Kingdom. However all that aside, if you only started training because of the family connections and guarantees, why were you claiming on the 01st of February, that you were all ready to quit because there were no jobs at the end of training?
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As I read on I just keep LMAO here. Well put B. I was wondering why nobody had pointed out he was doing CASA training to come back and work in EASA land. Not sure about the existence of Australian registered aircraft in the U.K., but then again...
And Mr Learjet-45 (love that aircraft) who is going to fly a Cessna 550 at the end, remember that everything you say on here can be and will be used again you in the court of pprune. Yes everything you write has been recorded, and we as members, all have access to it. Dream on dreamer.
And Mr Learjet-45 (love that aircraft) who is going to fly a Cessna 550 at the end, remember that everything you say on here can be and will be used again you in the court of pprune. Yes everything you write has been recorded, and we as members, all have access to it. Dream on dreamer.
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Wtf is going on?
I hope you are able to work this through, and that your licence / job works out for you. Unfortunately if you come across in person in the same way as you do here (admitting that the written word in this context can easily lead to misunderstanding), my fear is you may struggle somewhat.
Good luck.
I hope you are able to work this through, and that your licence / job works out for you. Unfortunately if you come across in person in the same way as you do here (admitting that the written word in this context can easily lead to misunderstanding), my fear is you may struggle somewhat.
Good luck.
