CPL before ATPL's are completed
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Ireland
CPL before ATPL's are completed
Hello everyone, just wondering if anyone has come across this before? My FTO want me to start my CPL flight training and under take the skills test despite having 2 ATPL exams yet to sit and pass. From what I've seen online ATPLs are a requirement for the CPL training so I am wondering could this lead to issues down the line if/when the CAA notice the date of my skills test is prior to the date of the sitting of my remaining exams?
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
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From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
I had to provide evidence to the CAA that I had passed my exams before I could book the examiner for the skill test ... even though they would have had the evidence as it was their exams that I sat. 
You can start the training but you won't be able to take the skill test until you've passed all the exams. It's putting a lot of pressure on you to undergo flight training and theory study at the same time.
So your FTO should know better and I would question why they want you to start without having the exams under your belt.
You can start the training but you won't be able to take the skill test until you've passed all the exams. It's putting a lot of pressure on you to undergo flight training and theory study at the same time.
So your FTO should know better and I would question why they want you to start without having the exams under your belt.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 619
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From: Home Counties
If the so called FTO does not understand these rules then I would be asking serious questions.
More important is why someone would want to embark on the most costly part of their training if a bad day at the exam centre could make the CPL training pointless if they fail to pass one of the ATPLs.
More important is why someone would want to embark on the most costly part of their training if a bad day at the exam centre could make the CPL training pointless if they fail to pass one of the ATPLs.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
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From: Neither Here Nor There
You can start the training without having passed the examinations but you cannot take the Skills test, although, as has already been pointed out why would you want to spend £ 6,000 on a CPL(A) if you can't pass the theory examinations. Surely, any reputable FTO would consider this in their student criteria.
D1.4 JAR-FCL CPL(A) SKILL TEST REQUIREMENTS
An applicant for a JAR-FCL CPL(A) is required to:
1. Pass the CPL Skill Test with a CAA Flight Examiner.
• An applicant for a skill test for the CPL(A) shall have satisfactorily completed all of the required training, including instruction on the same type/class of aeroplane to be used in the skill test. The applicant shall be permitted to choose to take the test on a single-engine aeroplane or, subject to the experience requirement in JAR-FCL 1.255 or JAR-FCL 1.260 of 70 hours flight time as pilot-incommand on a multi-engine aeroplane. The aeroplane used for the skill test shall meet the requirements for training aeroplanes set out in Appendix 1a to JAR-FCL 1.055 and shall be certificated for the carriage of at least four persons, have a variable pitch propeller and retractable landing gear.
• Before undertaking the Skill Test, the applicant shall have passed the associated theoretical knowledge examinations (exceptions may be made by the CAA for applicants undergoing a course of integrated flying training) and completed all of the related flying training.
• Before undertaking the CPL(A) Skill Test an applicant must obtain a pre-entry form F170A. The applicant will also be required to provide evidence to the examiner of having met the requirements for the issue of a Night Qualification, and of holding a valid UK FRTOL or of having passed the UK RTF practical test prior to undertaking the CPL(A) Skill Test.
• An applicant shall pass sections 1 through 5 of the skill test, and applicable items of Section 6. If any item in a section is failed, that section is failed. Failure in more than one section will require the applicant to take the entire test again. An applicant failing only one section shall take the failed section again plus Section 1. Failure in any section of the re-test, including those sections that have been passed on a previous attempt, will require the applicant to take the entire test again. Further training may be recommended following the failure of one Section of the Skill Test. Further training will be required prior to any full re-test.
• For the purpose of licence issue the skill test will remain valid for 12 months.
D1.4 JAR-FCL CPL(A) SKILL TEST REQUIREMENTS
An applicant for a JAR-FCL CPL(A) is required to:
1. Pass the CPL Skill Test with a CAA Flight Examiner.
• An applicant for a skill test for the CPL(A) shall have satisfactorily completed all of the required training, including instruction on the same type/class of aeroplane to be used in the skill test. The applicant shall be permitted to choose to take the test on a single-engine aeroplane or, subject to the experience requirement in JAR-FCL 1.255 or JAR-FCL 1.260 of 70 hours flight time as pilot-incommand on a multi-engine aeroplane. The aeroplane used for the skill test shall meet the requirements for training aeroplanes set out in Appendix 1a to JAR-FCL 1.055 and shall be certificated for the carriage of at least four persons, have a variable pitch propeller and retractable landing gear.
• Before undertaking the Skill Test, the applicant shall have passed the associated theoretical knowledge examinations (exceptions may be made by the CAA for applicants undergoing a course of integrated flying training) and completed all of the related flying training.
• Before undertaking the CPL(A) Skill Test an applicant must obtain a pre-entry form F170A. The applicant will also be required to provide evidence to the examiner of having met the requirements for the issue of a Night Qualification, and of holding a valid UK FRTOL or of having passed the UK RTF practical test prior to undertaking the CPL(A) Skill Test.
• An applicant shall pass sections 1 through 5 of the skill test, and applicable items of Section 6. If any item in a section is failed, that section is failed. Failure in more than one section will require the applicant to take the entire test again. An applicant failing only one section shall take the failed section again plus Section 1. Failure in any section of the re-test, including those sections that have been passed on a previous attempt, will require the applicant to take the entire test again. Further training may be recommended following the failure of one Section of the Skill Test. Further training will be required prior to any full re-test.
• For the purpose of licence issue the skill test will remain valid for 12 months.
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: EGYD
There were quite a few students who started CPL training where I trained with one or two exams outstanding - they then completed the one exam and waited for the results before testing.
I'd go to as far to say it's pretty common for one or two "clean up exams"
I'd go to as far to say it's pretty common for one or two "clean up exams"
