SA training questions (merged)
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Is it safe and secure in SA?
I was wondering how safe it is to train in South Africa?
How safe is the area around the popular schools?
(I wont be kiddnaped or anything?)
How good is the maintenance of aircraft?
I'm looking for a good flying school so I can build some hours. Do you know a school with a good reputation in SA?
How safe is the area around the popular schools?
(I wont be kiddnaped or anything?)
How good is the maintenance of aircraft?
I'm looking for a good flying school so I can build some hours. Do you know a school with a good reputation in SA?
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Like you, I'm interested in doing some of my flying training in SA eventually.
My own enquiries suggest there is little possibility of experiencing violence in the areas of the FTOs. The violence in SA seems to be confined to the inner cities. Hence, providing you take the advice of the locals on where to go and where not to go, you should be alright from that point of view.
My own reservations about SA are about other things. Firstly, the falling value of the Rand. For some time now, the Rand has been at the rate of about 11 to £1. Damn good value for the UK pilot.
Just recently, however, this exchange rate has fallen to anything up to 16 Rands to the £1, despite the fact that SA has a strong and thriving economy.
At first, one may be inclined to say 'whoopee'. However, this just isn't healthy. It means all imports to SA are going to be extremely expensive, (e.g. aircraft spares) and the income of south africans (in an economy that earns much of its income from exports) is bound to suffer badly. Bearing in mind the low average income of the average south african, this could destabilise the country if it is allowed to continue unchecked.
My other concern is about treatment in the event of an accident. You may be injured, say in something as mundane as a road traffic accident, and need a blood transfusion. One wonders whether blood supplies in a country with the worst AIDS epidemic in the world can be relied upon to be safe.
Finally, one of the nicest things about training in SA is the possibility of flying long, long cross country flights. Presumably, these flights must take place over large tracts of open country where drinking water is scarce and inhabited in at least some places by potentially dangerous animals.
In the event of having to make a forced landing in open country, therefore, I wonder what survival provisions and training the FTOs provide to ensure you come back alive?
Best regards,
My own enquiries suggest there is little possibility of experiencing violence in the areas of the FTOs. The violence in SA seems to be confined to the inner cities. Hence, providing you take the advice of the locals on where to go and where not to go, you should be alright from that point of view.
My own reservations about SA are about other things. Firstly, the falling value of the Rand. For some time now, the Rand has been at the rate of about 11 to £1. Damn good value for the UK pilot.
Just recently, however, this exchange rate has fallen to anything up to 16 Rands to the £1, despite the fact that SA has a strong and thriving economy.
At first, one may be inclined to say 'whoopee'. However, this just isn't healthy. It means all imports to SA are going to be extremely expensive, (e.g. aircraft spares) and the income of south africans (in an economy that earns much of its income from exports) is bound to suffer badly. Bearing in mind the low average income of the average south african, this could destabilise the country if it is allowed to continue unchecked.
My other concern is about treatment in the event of an accident. You may be injured, say in something as mundane as a road traffic accident, and need a blood transfusion. One wonders whether blood supplies in a country with the worst AIDS epidemic in the world can be relied upon to be safe.
Finally, one of the nicest things about training in SA is the possibility of flying long, long cross country flights. Presumably, these flights must take place over large tracts of open country where drinking water is scarce and inhabited in at least some places by potentially dangerous animals.
In the event of having to make a forced landing in open country, therefore, I wonder what survival provisions and training the FTOs provide to ensure you come back alive?
Best regards,
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Your question: I think the best is to phone to your embassy/Consulate in Pretoria. On the french side (Consulate), I have got this optimistic information: "soma areas must be avoided absolutely, but most of the country is normal. The situation (criminality) seems to evolve on a good slope since a couple of years, however most of the problems are arising from the consequence of a degrading economic situation and not from ethnic problems."
Cheers
Cheers
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A little more details, health services are considered as good (western level). In general,level of life is cheaper than Europe . South Africa is an oil producer (covering partly its needs) and exporting gasoline to its neighbours(- particularly-converting coal in gasoline). Don't forget the importance of fuel in the cost of a flying hour.
These are information I succeed to get from the web site of my consulate.
For more details...E-Mail me.
Cheers.
[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Gedifroggy ]</p>
These are information I succeed to get from the web site of my consulate.
For more details...E-Mail me.
Cheers.
[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Gedifroggy ]</p>
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Um hi, not wanting to completely put you off or anything, but I am South African.
The crime is well...very bad in all parts, its just worse in some parts thatn the others. However crime is not confined just to the city centres! DO NOT BE FOOLED!
What I can tell you is that the crime is less bad near the areas of Cape Town and Durban, than in Johannesburg. A good school to go to would be 43rd Air school, they have a website, can't remember what it is but if u search for it you will find it.
Genreally the standard of flying is to a very high standard (an It has been kow for South African piltos and engeneers to be well sought after, Especially SAAF pilots and engeneers...SAAF standing for South African Air Force)
The rand is currently around R18 to your £1 which is very good!
Also I would say that you do want to be careful what you do and where you go, try hook up with some of the SA guys at the school, they will give u the best gen. about that sorta stuff.
Good luck though and if u have anything u want to ask me feel free, just send me an email or something.
RAF TopGun
The crime is well...very bad in all parts, its just worse in some parts thatn the others. However crime is not confined just to the city centres! DO NOT BE FOOLED!
What I can tell you is that the crime is less bad near the areas of Cape Town and Durban, than in Johannesburg. A good school to go to would be 43rd Air school, they have a website, can't remember what it is but if u search for it you will find it.
Genreally the standard of flying is to a very high standard (an It has been kow for South African piltos and engeneers to be well sought after, Especially SAAF pilots and engeneers...SAAF standing for South African Air Force)
The rand is currently around R18 to your £1 which is very good!
Also I would say that you do want to be careful what you do and where you go, try hook up with some of the SA guys at the school, they will give u the best gen. about that sorta stuff.
Good luck though and if u have anything u want to ask me feel free, just send me an email or something.
RAF TopGun
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Thank you very much for your informative replies.
I was looking at 43Airschool and they seem to be very well layed out.
By the way their web-site is <a href="http://www.43airschool.com" target="_blank">www.43airschool.com</a> if anyone need it.
Thanks again!
I was looking at 43Airschool and they seem to be very well layed out.
By the way their web-site is <a href="http://www.43airschool.com" target="_blank">www.43airschool.com</a> if anyone need it.
Thanks again!
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I completed all of my CPL training in SA last year with a few other Brits in the Jo'burg area and none of us had any problems,but as long as you stay alert and use a bit of common sense and avoid no go areas you should not have any problems.. .We were lucky in that we have a good bunch of locals to look after us and show us around.. .With the falling Rand SA presents an excellent place to train with high standards of instruction.. .The country is excellent for cross countries with stunning scenery and the opportunity for cross border flights.. .I'm heading back out this week,please feel free to email if you have any questions
UTR
UTR
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I did all my training at 43 and can recommend them. The school has excellent facilities and the environment and scenery in which you fly are fantastic. Also the Eastern Cape is relatively unaffected by crime.. .Good luck. .Dutchie
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I've heard 43 are good too. I finished off my PPL at Algoa FC, in Port Elizabeth. Nice, friendly city, spent quite a bit of time there and never had any trouble - apart from a taxi-driver who tried to take me the long way round town!
. .Airport is within 20 or so mins walk of the beach / city centre / all accom, which is why I go there (so dont have to pay for car hire)
Theres another club at PE too but I cant remember its neme, sorry. Try aeropages.co.za (I think!) for links to SA FTO's.
Cheers,. .BBD
. .Airport is within 20 or so mins walk of the beach / city centre / all accom, which is why I go there (so dont have to pay for car hire)
Theres another club at PE too but I cant remember its neme, sorry. Try aeropages.co.za (I think!) for links to SA FTO's.
Cheers,. .BBD
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Cape Flying Services. South Africa
Help!! I am looking to start my CPL and I am looking at a school in South Africa called CFS It seems a bit too good to be true being able to pass my CPL for only £12,500 compared to around £50K here (UK) I am just completing my PPL and am looking for advice, is it too good to be true or am I worrying about nothing and should I go for it??
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Hi albi
I have completed my CPL,IF,ME at Cape Flying Services and I am now busy with my instructors rating. I can recommend the school for the following reasons: 1.The flying in South Africa is allot cheaper than it is for you guy's back in the uk,FACT. 2.Cape Flying Services is situated at the perfect airfield for ppl and cpl, it is a small airport with IF facilities (VOR,NBE,ILS). In other words you can get all your training at one airport, that is not too busy,making the most of your flying hours that you have paid for.3. The school is fair and just, if you stuggle a bit on one aspect of flying, they will do their best to help you.4.And one of the most important aspects of a good flying school,ALL the students get along with one another, we are all good friends and participate in social events like soccer,cricket and adventure activities. We also have regular "Braai's" (barbaque or whatever you call them) where everybody get together and talk about chicks and flying. We work hard during the week but take time out over the weekends. I can reccomend this school to everybody,it is a good all rounder.
I have completed my CPL,IF,ME at Cape Flying Services and I am now busy with my instructors rating. I can recommend the school for the following reasons: 1.The flying in South Africa is allot cheaper than it is for you guy's back in the uk,FACT. 2.Cape Flying Services is situated at the perfect airfield for ppl and cpl, it is a small airport with IF facilities (VOR,NBE,ILS). In other words you can get all your training at one airport, that is not too busy,making the most of your flying hours that you have paid for.3. The school is fair and just, if you stuggle a bit on one aspect of flying, they will do their best to help you.4.And one of the most important aspects of a good flying school,ALL the students get along with one another, we are all good friends and participate in social events like soccer,cricket and adventure activities. We also have regular "Braai's" (barbaque or whatever you call them) where everybody get together and talk about chicks and flying. We work hard during the week but take time out over the weekends. I can reccomend this school to everybody,it is a good all rounder.
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hey what can you say, africa is a tough place
I have recently completed my CPL,IF,ME with Cape Flying Services,George,South Africa, and i don't have any complaints at all,they are exellent.
Don't worry about the exchange rate,get a qoute from a school, that would be fixed for the period on the contract. Say for instance you get quoted R180 000 for a PPL,CPL,IF,ME. That contract would stand for a period of 9 months, depending on the school. A good school would extend that period for unforseen events like bad weather or downed aircraft. I know a bloke that completed his PPL,CPL,IF,ME at Cape Flying Services in 7 months!! This proves that it can be done through allot of hard work and determination.
On the subject of safety, South African search and rescue is world class, that is why you file a flight plan for cross country flights. If you don't pitch at the airfield at a certain time, they will come and look for you.
Crime is relevant, it can happen to anybody. If you enrol for a course at a flying school, you will easily make friends and they will show you around and get you streetwise. We alway's go out in groups and you will soon see that it is alright to go out by yourself.
I have recently completed my CPL,IF,ME with Cape Flying Services,George,South Africa, and i don't have any complaints at all,they are exellent.
Don't worry about the exchange rate,get a qoute from a school, that would be fixed for the period on the contract. Say for instance you get quoted R180 000 for a PPL,CPL,IF,ME. That contract would stand for a period of 9 months, depending on the school. A good school would extend that period for unforseen events like bad weather or downed aircraft. I know a bloke that completed his PPL,CPL,IF,ME at Cape Flying Services in 7 months!! This proves that it can be done through allot of hard work and determination.
On the subject of safety, South African search and rescue is world class, that is why you file a flight plan for cross country flights. If you don't pitch at the airfield at a certain time, they will come and look for you.
Crime is relevant, it can happen to anybody. If you enrol for a course at a flying school, you will easily make friends and they will show you around and get you streetwise. We alway's go out in groups and you will soon see that it is alright to go out by yourself.
Hovering AND talking
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Is this a record for thread revival - 3.5 years?
Anyway, I did some JetRanger training in Durban recently with NAC and couldn't recommend them highly enough. Professional instruction (mind you, he was ex British RAF!), well-maintained aircraft and a great bar in the Durban Wings Club!
You do have to be more safety conscious; drive with your doors locked and windows up. Never have your mobile phone on display. Don't stop at traffic lights to buy pink coathangars or bin liners (those who have been there will now what I mean!).
Cost of living is dirt cheap. It's only unfortunate that the CAA do not have any agreements with any of the schools there to provide JAA training (certainly that is the case for helicopters; not sure about fixed wing) otherwise I would go there like a shot to do my CPL(H).
The weather in Durban is among the best you find and.....as they say.... another **** day in Africa!
Cheers
Whirlygig
Anyway, I did some JetRanger training in Durban recently with NAC and couldn't recommend them highly enough. Professional instruction (mind you, he was ex British RAF!), well-maintained aircraft and a great bar in the Durban Wings Club!
You do have to be more safety conscious; drive with your doors locked and windows up. Never have your mobile phone on display. Don't stop at traffic lights to buy pink coathangars or bin liners (those who have been there will now what I mean!).
Cost of living is dirt cheap. It's only unfortunate that the CAA do not have any agreements with any of the schools there to provide JAA training (certainly that is the case for helicopters; not sure about fixed wing) otherwise I would go there like a shot to do my CPL(H).
The weather in Durban is among the best you find and.....as they say.... another **** day in Africa!
Cheers
Whirlygig
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Hey.
Go to 43.
Very very high standard, very proffesional, very enjoyable, very safe, very cost effective plus an experience you will never forget. No I don't work for them but I did train with them (PPL).
Check current conversion requirments to JAR before you go, they changed a few years back. I won't pass much of a comment on them other than they presume because you trained SA you learned in a tin can and haven't got a clue, very unfair I'm affraid! In my opinion I found standards out there to be as demanding/stringent if not more so than here (UK).
Good luck.
Go to 43.
Very very high standard, very proffesional, very enjoyable, very safe, very cost effective plus an experience you will never forget. No I don't work for them but I did train with them (PPL).
Check current conversion requirments to JAR before you go, they changed a few years back. I won't pass much of a comment on them other than they presume because you trained SA you learned in a tin can and haven't got a clue, very unfair I'm affraid! In my opinion I found standards out there to be as demanding/stringent if not more so than here (UK).
Good luck.
Old and cynical!
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My experience of SA was very favourable, I went glider flying so engine failure every trip! forced landings onto very quiet roads are no problem, long straight roads like runways and visible for miles! The problem with field landings are the crop and even worse, termite mounds (like concrete) and ardvark holes!
Going out at night, very cheap and providing you go out in a crowd, no problems although low gear towards trffic lights to ensure no full stop is recommended! Don't engage in conversation with strangers except in "safe" places and never accept "guides" all the usual street wise stuff really! Traffic accidents are the biggest cause for concern, the road death toll in SA is measured in thousands! and driving can be an "experience" Keep away from the black townships, it is unlikely that you will be welcome anyway! Apart from that, a superb country! Oh and the seasons are upside down, summer here, winter there!
Oh and like somebody else says, HIV is a major consideration, leave the wildlife alone!
Going out at night, very cheap and providing you go out in a crowd, no problems although low gear towards trffic lights to ensure no full stop is recommended! Don't engage in conversation with strangers except in "safe" places and never accept "guides" all the usual street wise stuff really! Traffic accidents are the biggest cause for concern, the road death toll in SA is measured in thousands! and driving can be an "experience" Keep away from the black townships, it is unlikely that you will be welcome anyway! Apart from that, a superb country! Oh and the seasons are upside down, summer here, winter there!
Oh and like somebody else says, HIV is a major consideration, leave the wildlife alone!
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Albi
Two things - check out the threads in African Aviation on CFS; then secondly, whatever you do don't pay any agent up front for anything. In fact don't pay anyone anything up front.
Apart from that SA is a great place to fly and the training standards on the whole are good.
Happy flying, P
Two things - check out the threads in African Aviation on CFS; then secondly, whatever you do don't pay any agent up front for anything. In fact don't pay anyone anything up front.
Apart from that SA is a great place to fly and the training standards on the whole are good.
Happy flying, P
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Hi Guys
Might be stating the obvious but it will be a South African CPL/IR that you get. £12,500 seems cheap with the rand at current levels but yes it is still tons cheaper than back in blighty.
In order to convert to the identical JAR licence you will have to spend about anothe £12K by the estimates I have seen as well as writing all 14 ATPL subjects.
By the way if you're considering SA as a place to fly check out the flying schools in Port Elizabeth - it's windy but probably the best place to learn to fly. Cape Town is great but too busy.
By the way for the record I learnt to fly at George but not CFS
. George is a good environment - Controled airspace but not that busy. Personally both schools in George could be better IMHO. Done all my flying out of CT since then. Love it but you can spend ages on the ground taxiing/holding. PE is in my view the best compromise plus all the schools have a good reputation there.
BTW if you read the thread on CFS I wouldn't take it too seriously. Whatever you do use pprune to get feedback from people and make an informed choice. You might want to check out www.avcom.co.za - local SA version of pprune more geared to GA but a good source of info.
Rgds
GT
Might be stating the obvious but it will be a South African CPL/IR that you get. £12,500 seems cheap with the rand at current levels but yes it is still tons cheaper than back in blighty.
In order to convert to the identical JAR licence you will have to spend about anothe £12K by the estimates I have seen as well as writing all 14 ATPL subjects.
By the way if you're considering SA as a place to fly check out the flying schools in Port Elizabeth - it's windy but probably the best place to learn to fly. Cape Town is great but too busy.
By the way for the record I learnt to fly at George but not CFS
. George is a good environment - Controled airspace but not that busy. Personally both schools in George could be better IMHO. Done all my flying out of CT since then. Love it but you can spend ages on the ground taxiing/holding. PE is in my view the best compromise plus all the schools have a good reputation there.BTW if you read the thread on CFS I wouldn't take it too seriously. Whatever you do use pprune to get feedback from people and make an informed choice. You might want to check out www.avcom.co.za - local SA version of pprune more geared to GA but a good source of info.
Rgds
GT