The right path.. Stapleford? OAA?
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What does it say about the industry these days that if you have 120grand to spend in your pocket youre just about guaranteed a job in an airline.....
Back to the days of buying a commission in the army me thinks.
Back to the days of buying a commission in the army me thinks.
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Indi1988,
I am sorry mate, but that is NONSENSE!!!! I know a few guys recently employed by BA and Easy who were modular students. Please get your facts right!
He also mentioned an interesting point that other people may have a different outlook on:
- Easyjet, BA and other major airlines will NOT take any modular students, this is a black and white rule with no discrepancy.
- Easyjet, BA and other major airlines will NOT take any modular students, this is a black and white rule with no discrepancy.
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Talking about their first job, I imagine? Lots of modular students go on to be very successful with the large carriers, but just very unlikely that'll happen as your first show. Most modular students will start off with small carriers or as instructors, which is also where I'm seeing a lot of integrated students go to as well, get some experience and some hands on skills before working up the ladder.
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Thanks all for your replies and help.
I'm leaning very close to Stapleford at this stage. Will be visiting the two schools in Bournmouth this week, but I'm struggling to envisage how they would differ from SFC and how I would be able to justify moving away.
Just looking to get all the finances sorted and be on my way to a PPL whilst working and then leave BAE for the ATPL course, although I will struggle to get unpaid leave. But we will see.
:)
I'm leaning very close to Stapleford at this stage. Will be visiting the two schools in Bournmouth this week, but I'm struggling to envisage how they would differ from SFC and how I would be able to justify moving away.
Just looking to get all the finances sorted and be on my way to a PPL whilst working and then leave BAE for the ATPL course, although I will struggle to get unpaid leave. But we will see.
:)
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There really isn't any debate if you already live near by stapelford.
Its got a pretty good reputation and you don't have to move. Persoanlly I would save your petrol driving down south and back.
Its got a pretty good reputation and you don't have to move. Persoanlly I would save your petrol driving down south and back.
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Quote..........
"I also visited Bonus Aviation in Cranfield and on the whole, it seemed like quite a friendly school but their facilities seemed a bit 'outdated', just a few porter cabins with no glass cockpit aircraft, hence it seemed a bit pointless as it's quite far from home. "
Thats exactly why i chose them , no glass , no autopilot , 6 levers to really max you out while flying the aircraft , hands on , steam dials etc has increased my mental capacity to deal with all this at the same time as an EFATO/GA.
Important questions i asked : Student/instructor ratio , aircraft downtime , pass rate on IR/CPL , couldnt particularly give a stuff if they had new buildings and posh coffee making facilities (we know who ultimately pay's for this dont we?!)
Indy , im sure your a nice guy but i fear from your posts you are looking for a school that fits your image instead of your training requirements.
"I also visited Bonus Aviation in Cranfield and on the whole, it seemed like quite a friendly school but their facilities seemed a bit 'outdated', just a few porter cabins with no glass cockpit aircraft, hence it seemed a bit pointless as it's quite far from home. "
Thats exactly why i chose them , no glass , no autopilot , 6 levers to really max you out while flying the aircraft , hands on , steam dials etc has increased my mental capacity to deal with all this at the same time as an EFATO/GA.
Important questions i asked : Student/instructor ratio , aircraft downtime , pass rate on IR/CPL , couldnt particularly give a stuff if they had new buildings and posh coffee making facilities (we know who ultimately pay's for this dont we?!)
Indy , im sure your a nice guy but i fear from your posts you are looking for a school that fits your image instead of your training requirements.
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Thank you for your approval Downwind that I am a nice guy. This has reassured my confidence.
Pass rate at SFC for CPL and IR is 95%. I'm not to sure about the student/instructor ratio but judging from previous posts, it's not too much bother getting an instructor for the time you need.
Aircraft down time should be minimal as they have their own maintenance facilities as do Bonus.
I really couldn't give a monkeys about the environment, otherwise I would have been going to Oxford, for the image - I care about a decent standard of training and job prospects afterwards. I'm not at all implying that bonus has a band standard of training, I'm sure they're the same as SFC but when I spoke to the GM, she couldn't show me any records of students they have placed with airlines in the past few years, where as SFC had siginificant traceability on their students.
I'm sure Bonus has it's good standards as you state, but it seems purposeless moving up to Cranfield if I'm not gaining any thing I couldn't get from SFC.
The positive points I see in SFC is that they have their own dedicated airfield, close to london so it should be quite a busy airspace as well (not comparing with bonus) and it's close to home - and they seem better organised than bonus do.
Sorry for the rant!
Pass rate at SFC for CPL and IR is 95%. I'm not to sure about the student/instructor ratio but judging from previous posts, it's not too much bother getting an instructor for the time you need.
Aircraft down time should be minimal as they have their own maintenance facilities as do Bonus.
I really couldn't give a monkeys about the environment, otherwise I would have been going to Oxford, for the image - I care about a decent standard of training and job prospects afterwards. I'm not at all implying that bonus has a band standard of training, I'm sure they're the same as SFC but when I spoke to the GM, she couldn't show me any records of students they have placed with airlines in the past few years, where as SFC had siginificant traceability on their students.
I'm sure Bonus has it's good standards as you state, but it seems purposeless moving up to Cranfield if I'm not gaining any thing I couldn't get from SFC.
The positive points I see in SFC is that they have their own dedicated airfield, close to london so it should be quite a busy airspace as well (not comparing with bonus) and it's close to home - and they seem better organised than bonus do.
Sorry for the rant!
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I think you will find that is a first series pass rate, not first time pass rate. That means that it took the student two attempts to pass, not one. Check the fto's website for confirmation.
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I don't see a reason for a rant ? , if you feel the need to rant don't ask for advice on a public forum if you are going to take exception to people's comments/advice.
Personally , i would get a ppl and gain more experience of what you want that way. It seem's from your post though you have your mind set on where you are going so as the previous post says save your fuel money and stick to Stapleford if its what you want and on the doorstep.
Just as an aside , i note the excellent pass rates of Stapleford you mention but i know of 1 partial and 1 fail in the last 2 weeks , fail by Capt A and partial by Capt B........
Personally , i would get a ppl and gain more experience of what you want that way. It seem's from your post though you have your mind set on where you are going so as the previous post says save your fuel money and stick to Stapleford if its what you want and on the doorstep.
Just as an aside , i note the excellent pass rates of Stapleford you mention but i know of 1 partial and 1 fail in the last 2 weeks , fail by Capt A and partial by Capt B........
WWW - Your posts used to wind me up in the old days (pre-2009) but now your thoughts mirror mine. Are you softening or am I just getting old and tired? 
flyvirgin - That sounds like SFC. The set up was fairly relaxed but the training was to a high standard. The Instructors don't give you an inch and they're people with whom you'd happily drink a pint at the end of the day. Can anyone honestly say they would feel proud of wearing stripes while training? Crumbs, it's bad enough wearing only two when you walk through Stansted...
RB311 - There's no comparison. Buying a commission in the Army led to people with no military training or talent for leadership stepping into positions for which they had no aptitude. Paying for your own training in no way avoids the need for you to 'make the grade'. You have to possess the requisite skill and aptitude or you won't be employable.
downwind24 - Agree with you about the dials. In retrospect I see no advantage in doing the IR on the DA42. In fact, in my opinon it's a disadvantage because the instruments are some kind of wierd halfway house between steam and EFIS. It didn't prepare me for the B738, which has surprisingly intuitive EFIS instruments, nor would it have made flying an older turbo prop or BAE146 an easier. Quite the reverse. As for pass rates, that is the key and definitely what our friend should look at.
indi1988 - Mate, you're doing all the right things; asking all the right questions on here. I went to SFC so I think you're on to a winner with it. When I was in your position I went to a couple of other places to have a look but quickly ruled them out due to location. SFC was the only good modular commercial place which was within commuting distance. It suited my personal family circumstances, my budget, and the teaching style matched my learning style. In areas where it matters, such as pass rates, SFC was as good as any.
flyvirgin - That sounds like SFC. The set up was fairly relaxed but the training was to a high standard. The Instructors don't give you an inch and they're people with whom you'd happily drink a pint at the end of the day. Can anyone honestly say they would feel proud of wearing stripes while training? Crumbs, it's bad enough wearing only two when you walk through Stansted...
RB311 - There's no comparison. Buying a commission in the Army led to people with no military training or talent for leadership stepping into positions for which they had no aptitude. Paying for your own training in no way avoids the need for you to 'make the grade'. You have to possess the requisite skill and aptitude or you won't be employable.
downwind24 - Agree with you about the dials. In retrospect I see no advantage in doing the IR on the DA42. In fact, in my opinon it's a disadvantage because the instruments are some kind of wierd halfway house between steam and EFIS. It didn't prepare me for the B738, which has surprisingly intuitive EFIS instruments, nor would it have made flying an older turbo prop or BAE146 an easier. Quite the reverse. As for pass rates, that is the key and definitely what our friend should look at.
indi1988 - Mate, you're doing all the right things; asking all the right questions on here. I went to SFC so I think you're on to a winner with it. When I was in your position I went to a couple of other places to have a look but quickly ruled them out due to location. SFC was the only good modular commercial place which was within commuting distance. It suited my personal family circumstances, my budget, and the teaching style matched my learning style. In areas where it matters, such as pass rates, SFC was as good as any.
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The positive points I see in SFC is that they have their own dedicated airfield, close to london so it should be quite a busy airspace as well (not comparing with bonus) and it's close to home - and they seem better organised than bonus do.
I did my CPL and IR from an airfield without a test centre, and with no instrument approaches on site, and the only real disadvantage was we had to fly to other airfields to fly the instrument approaches, but this didn't really cause a problem.
I have been to SFC a couple of times, and to me it seemed to be a good outfit. A few of my friends went there and had no complaints and are now enjoying airline careers. If you live just down the road and money is tight it seems like a no brainer.
Also guys, 9 times out of 10, in terms of your airline careers, it really makes no difference where you did you training. As long as you pop out the other end, with your shiny blue licence, IR and ATPL credits, that is all the airlines will be interested in, in terms of your credentials. Once you get you foot in the door with an interview, it will be you and your personality that gets you the job. Getting that foot in the door is the tricky bit!
Enjoy the course, whatever you decide.
Last edited by CAT3C AUTOLAND; 29th Jan 2011 at 18:25.
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Off topic and i do apologise but Davidflies the words 'rant' were used by Indy initially not me , read correctly before you reply with what im afraid is quite a pathetic and childish post. I fear you may be a little sensitive as in one of your other post's Whirlygig managed to offend you also ??!!
Indy , i named the captains concerned however the post would appear to have been 'edited' , its not an attack on Stapleford , i dont know great deals about them , however if i know of that many in 2 weeks maybe you should ask for concrete figure's to back up what you have been told? It was a pointer simply for you to ask for more info.
Further more good luck in whichever school you decide is right for you , you are certainly wise to do your homework!
Indy , i named the captains concerned however the post would appear to have been 'edited' , its not an attack on Stapleford , i dont know great deals about them , however if i know of that many in 2 weeks maybe you should ask for concrete figure's to back up what you have been told? It was a pointer simply for you to ask for more info.
Further more good luck in whichever school you decide is right for you , you are certainly wise to do your homework!
14 years of doing this and Wannabes still don't grasp that a CPL/IR is like a driving licence. Its a test you take for a couple of hours, with an examiner who is ticking boxes on a test sheet, which results in a license being printed and issued.
Whether you trained at the BSM/AA school of motoring amazingness in a brand new Mini, or, whether Dodgy Dave in his knackered 05 plate Corsa instructed you on your parallel park REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.
You've still only got a couple of hundred hours, you know nothing, you're crap.
You've got a license to learn.
There are "times" when airlines need so many unplanned unexpected pilots that they pick up the phone to the large schools and order two dozen for interview please. Those times are rare and last occurred in 2006. They are highly unlikely to be seen until the other end of this economic cycle.
They only call the large Integrated school because it is bloody difficult to phone 24 smaller flying schools, get the CFI on the phone and get him to give you the contact details of the best student he's seen in the last 6 months. Large FTO's has a nice lady who can do this with 30 minutes notice. Its that blunt. When push comes to shove major airlines have just called up type rating providers like GE and asked for the names and mobile number of anyone who went through there in the last 3 months, then called them, then hired most of them.
No question of where they trained, what their A-Levels were or could they work in a team trying to build a model of Big Ben out of pencils. A license, a type rating, a pulse and willing to be here on Tuesday..
What matters at the moment is staying in a slow game. Which generally means lowest debt serviceable for the longest time whilst applying for three years to airlines. Unless you can get into CTC or pay the RYR £30k type rating and take a chance they'll keep you busy.
What doesn't matter is the 'quality' of your driving test lessons and whether you could do a good hill start. No one really cares.
WWW
Whether you trained at the BSM/AA school of motoring amazingness in a brand new Mini, or, whether Dodgy Dave in his knackered 05 plate Corsa instructed you on your parallel park REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.
You've still only got a couple of hundred hours, you know nothing, you're crap.
You've got a license to learn.
There are "times" when airlines need so many unplanned unexpected pilots that they pick up the phone to the large schools and order two dozen for interview please. Those times are rare and last occurred in 2006. They are highly unlikely to be seen until the other end of this economic cycle.
They only call the large Integrated school because it is bloody difficult to phone 24 smaller flying schools, get the CFI on the phone and get him to give you the contact details of the best student he's seen in the last 6 months. Large FTO's has a nice lady who can do this with 30 minutes notice. Its that blunt. When push comes to shove major airlines have just called up type rating providers like GE and asked for the names and mobile number of anyone who went through there in the last 3 months, then called them, then hired most of them.
No question of where they trained, what their A-Levels were or could they work in a team trying to build a model of Big Ben out of pencils. A license, a type rating, a pulse and willing to be here on Tuesday..
What matters at the moment is staying in a slow game. Which generally means lowest debt serviceable for the longest time whilst applying for three years to airlines. Unless you can get into CTC or pay the RYR £30k type rating and take a chance they'll keep you busy.
What doesn't matter is the 'quality' of your driving test lessons and whether you could do a good hill start. No one really cares.
WWW
PPRuNe Handmaiden
WWW as usual, says it how it is.
One thing I did note reading all of this is the phrase "placed".
If you do one of these unbelievably expensive courses, you're not "placed" in an airline. The reality is you may get an opportunity to that particular airlines' recruitment process - which you may or may not pass.
Caveat emptor
One thing I did note reading all of this is the phrase "placed".
If you do one of these unbelievably expensive courses, you're not "placed" in an airline. The reality is you may get an opportunity to that particular airlines' recruitment process - which you may or may not pass.
Caveat emptor
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Whether you trained at the BSM/AA school of motoring amazingness in a brand new Mini, or, whether Dodgy Dave in his knackered 05 plate Corsa instructed you on your parallel park REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.
.
WWW, When you say no-one cares where you did your training would you include the big Spanish and Czech schools that are offering very good deals?
I keep seeing posts suggesting the airlines wouldn't be happy taking on people that trained abroad but then others suggest they dont care.
I keep seeing posts suggesting the airlines wouldn't be happy taking on people that trained abroad but then others suggest they dont care.
It might raise a few eyebrows because of fraudulent hours claims. I also think you will struggle like hell with language barriers.
WWW
WWW
Thanks,
Would you care to expand on the point about fraudulant hours? I haven't heard about that.
These schools are tempting for someone like myself that is short of time due to work etc. and cannot do a 6-10 week full time course in the UK but I do not want to put a black mark on my CV by going somewhere that has a bad reputation.
Regards
Would you care to expand on the point about fraudulant hours? I haven't heard about that.
These schools are tempting for someone like myself that is short of time due to work etc. and cannot do a 6-10 week full time course in the UK but I do not want to put a black mark on my CV by going somewhere that has a bad reputation.
Regards