Why are there so many pilots?
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Why are there so many pilots?
Sorry if this thread is repeated but... why are there so many people training and wanting to be pilots??? It ridiculous to see scores and scores of people applying and going through. no job at the end, massive loan etc. Can someone explain why? Seems like most of the people have one day got up and decided to start training as a pilot. How can justify such a change when they already have kids, mortgage etc. Im definately going to open a flight training school!!! thats where the money is.
Sassy
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Been flying executive jets for 20 years. I've given up, where else are you expected to pay for your training, bond for years and treat the job like a hobby that you pay for. I used to get paid well and have respect.
Oh and you must be so grateful for the job and accept a change of conditions or contract when ever needed.
Oh and you must be so grateful for the job and accept a change of conditions or contract when ever needed.
Last edited by notlikethat; 9th Nov 2010 at 21:35.
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will conditions ever reach a low that no one will accept them? even them there will be someone who will accept and pay to fly. oh wait its happening already? and who is to blame? Us? Mr V and Mrs L NAV?
Well there are lots of different types of people training for lots of different reasons.
Myself, I always wanted to be a pilot but it just wasn't an option when I was young. Later I did a PPL and decided I wanted to take it further. Im now doing my fATPL. Will I get a job at the end of it? Don't know, don't really care. I have a good career and my own business so it would probably be a big decrease in my quality of life and family income.
I do however want to be fully qualified so I can fly my aircraft IFR anywhere I want. The difference in doing just this and doing the fATPL isnt that great so i thought I would go for the whole show.
If a job comes along flying a Bizjet or a kingair for someone then I would jump at the chance, if an airline is interested then that would be good too. I am however fully aware that it is a job and would never ever pay to work, thats insane. If this means I will never fly for a living then so be it.
Myself, I always wanted to be a pilot but it just wasn't an option when I was young. Later I did a PPL and decided I wanted to take it further. Im now doing my fATPL. Will I get a job at the end of it? Don't know, don't really care. I have a good career and my own business so it would probably be a big decrease in my quality of life and family income.
I do however want to be fully qualified so I can fly my aircraft IFR anywhere I want. The difference in doing just this and doing the fATPL isnt that great so i thought I would go for the whole show.
If a job comes along flying a Bizjet or a kingair for someone then I would jump at the chance, if an airline is interested then that would be good too. I am however fully aware that it is a job and would never ever pay to work, thats insane. If this means I will never fly for a living then so be it.
Educated Hillbilly
I have worked as both a full time instructor and a brief time as a first officer on a heavy turboprop; however since getting layed off I have spent the last two years back in the design office. Although as a contractor, I am earning more more than double what I use to earn as tp FO, I can say I have spent the last two years extremely bored and frustrated.
Dispite all the pitfalls of flying (erratic rosters, days down route in a hotel, 2 in the morning call outs) it still beats been stuck in a office from 9 to 5.
I use to be against pay to fly, however if a sstr or a p2f scheme is my way back to flying, then in my opinion another 15 to 30 k is a small price to pay to avoid spending the rest of my working life in an office.
Dispite all the pitfalls of flying (erratic rosters, days down route in a hotel, 2 in the morning call outs) it still beats been stuck in a office from 9 to 5.
I use to be against pay to fly, however if a sstr or a p2f scheme is my way back to flying, then in my opinion another 15 to 30 k is a small price to pay to avoid spending the rest of my working life in an office.
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so you would borrow a years worth of wages to get back into it? i guess i can see where you guys are coming from. i wouldn't have gotten into flying if i didn't have a job at the end of it. deep down i know i love the job (not because of the job but because of the flying) but talking to my old man it seems that the job ain't what it used to be.
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Thanks you portsharbourflyer! There is so much negativity on here its great to here someone who has done flying and a 9-5 and recognises it can be a great career.
Most of the posts on here make me want to put a shotgun in my mouth
Most of the posts on here make me want to put a shotgun in my mouth
Educated Hillbilly
Sassy, just to be arrogant, for me the values I mentioned would only be three to six months wages.
Laakdown, I wouldn't necessarily say it is a great career, it is just better than 90% of the jobs that exist out there. What many pilots don't realise is that this isn't the only industry where terms and conditions have erroded, or more to the truth maybe it is the fact terms and conditions just use to be rediculously good and now normalisation is setting in. Anyway even if you end up only earning 2/3 of the salary of a current 320 or 737 Captain in ten years time, you are still going to be earning more than the average UK salary.
Laakdown, I wouldn't necessarily say it is a great career, it is just better than 90% of the jobs that exist out there. What many pilots don't realise is that this isn't the only industry where terms and conditions have erroded, or more to the truth maybe it is the fact terms and conditions just use to be rediculously good and now normalisation is setting in. Anyway even if you end up only earning 2/3 of the salary of a current 320 or 737 Captain in ten years time, you are still going to be earning more than the average UK salary.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 10th Nov 2010 at 22:40.
Thats right, alot of pilots have not done anything else so dont realise that all careers and industries have declined in terms of T&C's.
I would see a reduction in my lifestyle if i get a flying job but eventually it will equal and hopefully surpass my current income later in my career. I may choose to contract as I like that way of working and have done it for years in my current occupation. (I also work in a design office
).
Paying to work as I was referring to in my previous post meant long term P2F. I may buy myself a TR and if I can afford it and it gets me in somewhere then so be it. I won't lose any sleep if it never happens though so long as I can still fly on a weekend. I will however continue to look enviously at every aircraft that flies overhead.
I would see a reduction in my lifestyle if i get a flying job but eventually it will equal and hopefully surpass my current income later in my career. I may choose to contract as I like that way of working and have done it for years in my current occupation. (I also work in a design office
). Paying to work as I was referring to in my previous post meant long term P2F. I may buy myself a TR and if I can afford it and it gets me in somewhere then so be it. I won't lose any sleep if it never happens though so long as I can still fly on a weekend. I will however continue to look enviously at every aircraft that flies overhead.
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There are two main reasons why people want to be pilots. Some are like me, a dumb ass, head in the clouds enthusiast who just wants to fly. Nothing will stop those types. No amount of negativity, no amount of common sense. Nothing.
Many get there but find it's not as good as they thought it would be. It's a job after all. In my case, I realise now it was a huge mistake. Others are more lucky. Sometimes it's the best job in the world. But only sometimes.
Then there's the people who want to be airline pilots because of it's perceived status, money, lifestyle etc. They're the ones who are caught by the flight school propaganda. 'Be an airline pilot in 18 months'. Once disillusioned they are the most bitter and are puzzled as to why they haven't been picked up by an airline within weeks of leaving their expensive 'college of flying'.
On the other hand many people get the job, enjoy it with all it's compromises. It is better than the 9 to 5 drudge. Actually these days it more like 8 to 6. I've been there done that. Flying is better even if in my case I cannot make a decent living at it.
One of my sons has just had a small eye problem. It would probably disqualify him from being a commercial pilot. I'm almost relieved.
Many get there but find it's not as good as they thought it would be. It's a job after all. In my case, I realise now it was a huge mistake. Others are more lucky. Sometimes it's the best job in the world. But only sometimes.
Then there's the people who want to be airline pilots because of it's perceived status, money, lifestyle etc. They're the ones who are caught by the flight school propaganda. 'Be an airline pilot in 18 months'. Once disillusioned they are the most bitter and are puzzled as to why they haven't been picked up by an airline within weeks of leaving their expensive 'college of flying'.
On the other hand many people get the job, enjoy it with all it's compromises. It is better than the 9 to 5 drudge. Actually these days it more like 8 to 6. I've been there done that. Flying is better even if in my case I cannot make a decent living at it.
One of my sons has just had a small eye problem. It would probably disqualify him from being a commercial pilot. I'm almost relieved.
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There is a lot that is irrational about a career as a pilot. As has been said people would give up good steady jobs to do the job or invest insane amounts to self train.
That all begs the question whether people nuts enough to go through all of that are fit to have the lives of hundreds of people in thheir hands.
A bit of a paradox really.
That all begs the question whether people nuts enough to go through all of that are fit to have the lives of hundreds of people in thheir hands.
A bit of a paradox really.
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... because every little boy wants to be an astronaut, a racing car driver, a cowboy or a pilot.
And that little boy still lives inside all of us, especially the ones staring down the barrel of spending their life in an office cubicle, and causes us to do mad and irrational things before we all get old and die wishing that we did it.
And that little boy still lives inside all of us, especially the ones staring down the barrel of spending their life in an office cubicle, and causes us to do mad and irrational things before we all get old and die wishing that we did it.
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Simple answer,
No other career pays so much to be a work-shy slacker, and it requires little or no talent or intelligence. Disagree? Count how many malcontented sour pusses there are on the forum; "My employer expects me to actually come to work and fly. Moan moan moan. How bloody rude. I had plans for today. Moan moan moan."
Very short (but expensive) training period unlike the other professions pilots like to compare themselves to. The only real barrier to being a pilot is financial.
No other career pays so much to be a work-shy slacker, and it requires little or no talent or intelligence. Disagree? Count how many malcontented sour pusses there are on the forum; "My employer expects me to actually come to work and fly. Moan moan moan. How bloody rude. I had plans for today. Moan moan moan."
Very short (but expensive) training period unlike the other professions pilots like to compare themselves to. The only real barrier to being a pilot is financial.
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Well actually iv got a degree to become a pilot so there is no comparison there. I wonder how many pilots give up after not finding a job. I know at least half my intake dropped out before even finishing there cpl
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Sad to Leave...
I just ended my three year stint flying bizjets. Various reasons, main one being the ridiculously low number of flights and hours, leading to a general erosion of my flying capability (I am the first to admit this).
Positives :
1. FANTASTIC fun!! I used to love the early call out - 2am, no problem, off to Luton/ FAB/ wherever, get the cabin, the catering, the papers etc ready, greet the Pax, then up and away to some random destination, and an hour or two later - having breakfast/lunch in Paris/Cannes/Olbia in a nice hotel, with the feeling of a job well done.
2. Great cameraderie with the other guys (and gals) in the company... A real sense of belonging, in a relatively small team, which I suspect one may not always get in the airlines - I may be wrong...
3. The sheer unpredictability - one minute we're sitting about for three days, next minute - we're off to Rome, for another three day tour.
Negatives:
1. Just not enough flights to stay current , competent and excited. Most of the "duty" days spent sitting about.
2. Masses of down time away from the family in a hotel somewhere, with no plan for coming back. Even prisoners have a release date to work to....!!
3. Poor pay etc - not really a big deal - what one expects in the industry really
4. Very poor comms between management and pilots - a bit of an "us" and "them" culture - but this may not be the same in every company
The whole training business cost me an absolute fortune, so was it worth it?
Well, we only live once, and I can now say I've landed a jet aircraft at Heathrow (in a 25kt crosswind) - not a lot of people can say that...!! Mind you, for the costs involved, I could have probably bought my own bizjet - but that's another story!
So back to the primary career I trot... Great memories, an empty bank account and a CPL with a couple of jet ratings in it - Oh and don't forget the strippogram pilot uniform in the cupboard!!
Positives :
1. FANTASTIC fun!! I used to love the early call out - 2am, no problem, off to Luton/ FAB/ wherever, get the cabin, the catering, the papers etc ready, greet the Pax, then up and away to some random destination, and an hour or two later - having breakfast/lunch in Paris/Cannes/Olbia in a nice hotel, with the feeling of a job well done.
2. Great cameraderie with the other guys (and gals) in the company... A real sense of belonging, in a relatively small team, which I suspect one may not always get in the airlines - I may be wrong...
3. The sheer unpredictability - one minute we're sitting about for three days, next minute - we're off to Rome, for another three day tour.
Negatives:
1. Just not enough flights to stay current , competent and excited. Most of the "duty" days spent sitting about.
2. Masses of down time away from the family in a hotel somewhere, with no plan for coming back. Even prisoners have a release date to work to....!!
3. Poor pay etc - not really a big deal - what one expects in the industry really
4. Very poor comms between management and pilots - a bit of an "us" and "them" culture - but this may not be the same in every company
The whole training business cost me an absolute fortune, so was it worth it?
Well, we only live once, and I can now say I've landed a jet aircraft at Heathrow (in a 25kt crosswind) - not a lot of people can say that...!! Mind you, for the costs involved, I could have probably bought my own bizjet - but that's another story!
So back to the primary career I trot... Great memories, an empty bank account and a CPL with a couple of jet ratings in it - Oh and don't forget the strippogram pilot uniform in the cupboard!!
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I think that someone who wantes to be an airline pilot will not get rich quicker than a sales or Manager guy...but look out and compare their daily life?
I worked with a diffrent industrie where you're at the office at 8AM and leaving at 5PM, with 1 h for lunch....Always your boss kickiisng you ass and really boring envirnment...phone, papers and papers (useless of course)....meeetings...you may find your professional life very easy and not really challenging, at the end of the day, when you go home, what will you think? it is the same project you'll be working on tomorow.....
For an airline pilot, a diffrent envirenment....Working anytime and anywhere. at the end of the day, it's a job, but how far would you sacrifice to do it...I know a plomber who likes and loves plumbing...As long as he's happy with it, even if he's not getting payed as he should, but at least his love for his job keeps him motivated....Anyone who wants or dreams to be a pilot, do it !, you never know how is your life made....Money is just something we love but at the end of the day, it should not control your life, but you have to know how to earn it
Amen
I worked with a diffrent industrie where you're at the office at 8AM and leaving at 5PM, with 1 h for lunch....Always your boss kickiisng you ass and really boring envirnment...phone, papers and papers (useless of course)....meeetings...you may find your professional life very easy and not really challenging, at the end of the day, when you go home, what will you think? it is the same project you'll be working on tomorow.....
For an airline pilot, a diffrent envirenment....Working anytime and anywhere. at the end of the day, it's a job, but how far would you sacrifice to do it...I know a plomber who likes and loves plumbing...As long as he's happy with it, even if he's not getting payed as he should, but at least his love for his job keeps him motivated....Anyone who wants or dreams to be a pilot, do it !, you never know how is your life made....Money is just something we love but at the end of the day, it should not control your life, but you have to know how to earn it
Amen
