Airline Pilot: Career or Lifestyle?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: london
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airline Pilot: Career or Lifestyle?
Hi, I'm seriously considering training as an airline pilot but have some reservations regarding the effect this job will have on my life as a whole.
It would be great to hear from experienced pilots regarding this matter.
Thanks
It would be great to hear from experienced pilots regarding this matter.
Thanks
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: FL390
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hardest bit I have found so far is explaining the rosters to friends who get normal weekends off and work 9 - 5!
Just being based in Europe too, which I am looking forward to, but will make seeing the friends and family a bit harder!
Just being based in Europe too, which I am looking forward to, but will make seeing the friends and family a bit harder!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well at the moment I work pretty much Monday to Friday with weekends off. My roster alternates between a week of earlies(0700 to 1200) and a week of lates(1300 to 2000). Im currently based away from home, but I get back every weekend. Will be moving to a new base however very shortly, which will allow me to move back home. The roster there will be pretty much the same....a mixture of earlies and lates, Monday to Friday, with perhaps the odd early run here and there on a Sunday morning. No nightstops either!
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: keeps changing
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kyri thanks for bringing this up, im kinda in the same boat
Im also thinking of doing my training and going the airline or corporate route later on. totally understand where supamach is coming from you do kinda have a some freedom in your lifestyle but just doesn't work with your friends but any pilots out there have more then just pilot jobs say owning their own business or have done other things that they wanted to tick off their bucket list. reason i ask is i have a few business ventures and charity events that im working on and im worried that after my training i wont be able to work on anything else other than flying im hoping there is a way so that i dont have to give up one or the other. Thanks for the input
Safe flying
Im also thinking of doing my training and going the airline or corporate route later on. totally understand where supamach is coming from you do kinda have a some freedom in your lifestyle but just doesn't work with your friends but any pilots out there have more then just pilot jobs say owning their own business or have done other things that they wanted to tick off their bucket list. reason i ask is i have a few business ventures and charity events that im working on and im worried that after my training i wont be able to work on anything else other than flying im hoping there is a way so that i dont have to give up one or the other. Thanks for the input
Safe flying
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wherever I go, there I am
Age: 43
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well sorry guys, but if youre serious about getting into this business, you can kiss any serious social/additional business ventures/engagements goodbyefor the first couple years.
While you are training, especially if youre doing the JAA stuff, you will be nose deep in theory, physics, air law, met, navigation, etc. There is time to go out and drink just like any other course, but once you have the licence its all "zero tolerance" for alcohol, and with the amount of money you will put into this endeavour, its just not worth it if youre flying every day.
Once you get started in an airline/company you are at the very bottom of a very dirty, slippery slope. You can kiss the idea of having all your birthdays, easter, christmas, new years, kids birthdays, your anniversary, etc off.
In my first 10 years of aviation I have yet to actually have christmas eve and christmas day off together, I've worked 7 easters and have been dry for the past 5 new years and the first 3 (got real luck those other years.)
Once you start climbing the senority list things get much better as you are able to bid higher, or new guys under you are willing to take the crappy shifts, but even our Chief Pilots still have to work the major holiday time periods because of demand (although the increase in holiday time more than makes up for it)
Then there is the little thing called "on call" and "on reserve." On call means you can do what you want but have to be able to be at the airport, ready to fly, within a stated period of time (normally one hour). On Reserve means you sit in a predetermined place, for a predetermined amount of time, able to be at the airport in an hour or less and although most companies pay you for this, its very boring, with your friends and family not understanding why you cant just come out because you havent actually been called for the last 10 times you were on reserve/call. This is possibly the worst of it, because although it looks like you have time off, you cant really do much of anything.
Other than that its a great life style of getting up at 0300 to be at the airport for 0500 for a departure at a little past 0630 then fly all day, to a max of 14 hours (plus some if you dont read the weather right), with a minimum of 8 hours duty rest (and by 8 hours thats not 8 hours actual sleep, thats 8 hours from check out to check in)
I make it all sound so bad, don't I? Thing is - I love every second of it. All the bull**** is seriously worth it getting into the cockpit and watching a sunrise or sunset from altitude, or doing an approach to minima and seeing the runway just as you were thinking of going to your alternate. However, if youre not getting into this for the love of the flying , I would consider something else because the novelty of being a pilot, drilling holes in the sky going to exotic destinations wears very thing after a couple years and a zillion approaches.
While you are training, especially if youre doing the JAA stuff, you will be nose deep in theory, physics, air law, met, navigation, etc. There is time to go out and drink just like any other course, but once you have the licence its all "zero tolerance" for alcohol, and with the amount of money you will put into this endeavour, its just not worth it if youre flying every day.
Once you get started in an airline/company you are at the very bottom of a very dirty, slippery slope. You can kiss the idea of having all your birthdays, easter, christmas, new years, kids birthdays, your anniversary, etc off.
In my first 10 years of aviation I have yet to actually have christmas eve and christmas day off together, I've worked 7 easters and have been dry for the past 5 new years and the first 3 (got real luck those other years.)
Once you start climbing the senority list things get much better as you are able to bid higher, or new guys under you are willing to take the crappy shifts, but even our Chief Pilots still have to work the major holiday time periods because of demand (although the increase in holiday time more than makes up for it)
Then there is the little thing called "on call" and "on reserve." On call means you can do what you want but have to be able to be at the airport, ready to fly, within a stated period of time (normally one hour). On Reserve means you sit in a predetermined place, for a predetermined amount of time, able to be at the airport in an hour or less and although most companies pay you for this, its very boring, with your friends and family not understanding why you cant just come out because you havent actually been called for the last 10 times you were on reserve/call. This is possibly the worst of it, because although it looks like you have time off, you cant really do much of anything.
Other than that its a great life style of getting up at 0300 to be at the airport for 0500 for a departure at a little past 0630 then fly all day, to a max of 14 hours (plus some if you dont read the weather right), with a minimum of 8 hours duty rest (and by 8 hours thats not 8 hours actual sleep, thats 8 hours from check out to check in)
I make it all sound so bad, don't I? Thing is - I love every second of it. All the bull**** is seriously worth it getting into the cockpit and watching a sunrise or sunset from altitude, or doing an approach to minima and seeing the runway just as you were thinking of going to your alternate. However, if youre not getting into this for the love of the flying , I would consider something else because the novelty of being a pilot, drilling holes in the sky going to exotic destinations wears very thing after a couple years and a zillion approaches.
+TSRA
Yep I reckon that's a no punches pulled and accurate post
Also SupaMach's comment about explaining your rosters to friends ( and family) is spot on. I spent years trying to explain to folks why I was going to miss this, that or the other social event, or at the very least was unable to commit to being able to attend any event until a few weeks/days/hours to go...at least my spouse was in a shift work job so she did understand the deal.
Having said that I wouldn't swop the job for anything else, but you can get labelled as antisocial by the Monday to Friday 9 to 5'ers
Yep I reckon that's a no punches pulled and accurate post
Also SupaMach's comment about explaining your rosters to friends ( and family) is spot on. I spent years trying to explain to folks why I was going to miss this, that or the other social event, or at the very least was unable to commit to being able to attend any event until a few weeks/days/hours to go...at least my spouse was in a shift work job so she did understand the deal.
Having said that I wouldn't swop the job for anything else, but you can get labelled as antisocial by the Monday to Friday 9 to 5'ers
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dry bar
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eh? Why has it taken you years to try and explain to someone that you will be working on their birthday or over the new year? Surely just a simple "i'm at work on that day" should suffice. Either you all have poor communication skills or the people you are telling these things don't understand that there are jobs out there which require you to work other than 9 to 5.
....the people you are telling these things don't understand that there are jobs out there which require you to work other than 9 to 5.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wherever I go, there I am
Age: 43
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
shaun ryder,
That logic works the first couple of times you tell your spouce you are missing their birthday or an anniversary. They are understanding for the first couple of christmases because they know you are working towards something.
Their understanding, however, wears thin after years and literally hundreds of "nope, can't do Im on call" or "sorry hun, but I'm on a layover in YYZ that weekend." type conversations.
Its not that the communication is lacking, its that people get sick of hearing "I can't because [insert reason of the day]" all the time and begin to wonder if perhaps a banker/broker/lawyer would have been a better relationship move than the "jet setting pilot who can take me to far off locations on a whim."
That logic works the first couple of times you tell your spouce you are missing their birthday or an anniversary. They are understanding for the first couple of christmases because they know you are working towards something.
Their understanding, however, wears thin after years and literally hundreds of "nope, can't do Im on call" or "sorry hun, but I'm on a layover in YYZ that weekend." type conversations.
Its not that the communication is lacking, its that people get sick of hearing "I can't because [insert reason of the day]" all the time and begin to wonder if perhaps a banker/broker/lawyer would have been a better relationship move than the "jet setting pilot who can take me to far off locations on a whim."
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh come on....if the wife's birthday, or perhaps the neighbours annual barbecue extraveganza is that much of a major issue then why not take some leave over that period?? Honestly, unless your crewing or rostering dept is stuck in some draconian era from the dark ages then why is it so hard to get some specific time off on the odd occasion when you need it? I used to work with a guy who complained he'd worked no less than 9 Xmas's in a row.......the same guy who actually volunteered for it! Some forward planning surely should ensure you get the time off you need?
How many jobs are realistically Monday to Friday 9 -5? Whether your a Policeman......nurse...petrol pump attendant...shelf stacker at Tesco's...I cant honestly think of any job other than the typical office based worker who has a rolling Monday to Friday pattern.
How many jobs are realistically Monday to Friday 9 -5? Whether your a Policeman......nurse...petrol pump attendant...shelf stacker at Tesco's...I cant honestly think of any job other than the typical office based worker who has a rolling Monday to Friday pattern.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Massage Parlour
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that some people need to dry their eyes. MIKECR's comment is spot on, if there is such an important event then take leave for it; you may then have more of a chance of attending said event. I think you'll find that most flying jobs are, relatively speaking, paid particularly well and there are many more jobs that do not have the same rewards yet still require rather anti social hours.
+TSRA, your first post was good as it gave an honest account of hours worked. However, it is not always that bad, there are also the rewards that are not mentioned. If the original poster wants to do it for a career or lifestyle then it is entirely up to them. We all have very different opinions on why you do the job and what each of us find rewarding. As long as you are safe, professional and try your best in the cockpit then you can't really complain.
+TSRA, your first post was good as it gave an honest account of hours worked. However, it is not always that bad, there are also the rewards that are not mentioned. If the original poster wants to do it for a career or lifestyle then it is entirely up to them. We all have very different opinions on why you do the job and what each of us find rewarding. As long as you are safe, professional and try your best in the cockpit then you can't really complain.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Egypt
Age: 32
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No job is easy ever !! for flying carear , i beleive that the first couple of years like 5 yrs or smthing. are the hardest as u try to get higher in the job and sacriffice for a lot of social events but then afterwards i think it will be the best lifestyle ever on one condition ( if u realy love flying ) .
If u consider flying as a job !! so u will live a nightmare !!
u must love flying so u will enjoy the hard times u put in and have the ambition to live the lifestyle u want afterwards !!!
If u consider flying as a job !! so u will live a nightmare !!
u must love flying so u will enjoy the hard times u put in and have the ambition to live the lifestyle u want afterwards !!!
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: FL390
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't think anyone is crying about it.. just giving an honest answer to the OP.
Personally, I love what I do and wouldn't change it for anything (apart from winning 112m on the euromillions perhaps!)
Do all of my friends always understand why I can't make it to things? Be around for a chat in the evenings? Just "pop" back over to england to see them? .. Most of them no.
But my choice, I live with it, and see them all when I can! (anyway.. waiting makes things seem better
)
Personally, I love what I do and wouldn't change it for anything (apart from winning 112m on the euromillions perhaps!)
Do all of my friends always understand why I can't make it to things? Be around for a chat in the evenings? Just "pop" back over to england to see them? .. Most of them no.
But my choice, I live with it, and see them all when I can! (anyway.. waiting makes things seem better
)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: at the whim of people I've never met
Age: 46
Posts: 607
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm currently on a job share from a very large company with an incredibly stable roster where you NEVER EVER EVER get called during your rostered off days (6 on 5 off). We have a reasonably fair vacation bidding system (it was my first year in the company last year and I managed to get 12th December through to 3rd of Jan off without problem) and we also have a handful of SDO's (special days off) which don't count towards your holiday but rostering will do their best - no guarantees - to work the roster so these fall in your off days (which means you won't get called). In the last month they started issuing the roster 2 months in advance instead of 1 so it is relatively easy to plan stuff without using much (or any) holiday.
For the next 10 months I am working for a more 'traditional' type of company where they can call during an off day and you can turn it down although unlike the other company, there is an element of flight pay & sector pay which ticks over into double pay after a certain number of days per month. There is more sitting at home and we can volunteer for standby to cover 1900 to 0700 which is also at double pay. I am after as much wonga as possible so I am volunteering quite a lot and have already missed my 5 year anniversary earlier this week.
My wife is already losing her sense of humour to some degree over the new setup but it does make me appreciate what I will be going back to next summer.
Totally agree with the explaining to friends / family (I have no kids yet and I am reliably informed that this it is VERY difficult to explain to them why you can't be around and skype only goes so far) but you can make it work.
Plus you get to beat the weekend rush somewhat for shopping, restaurants, cheeky hotel trips away with the wife (she doesn't work).
I was previously 10 years in office related jobs including several years of self-employment working from home so you never switched off - so now despite being away from home much more, my wife gets to see me a good deal more than she did as I can't bring work home (don't think the jet would fit on the drive anyway).
For the next 10 months I am working for a more 'traditional' type of company where they can call during an off day and you can turn it down although unlike the other company, there is an element of flight pay & sector pay which ticks over into double pay after a certain number of days per month. There is more sitting at home and we can volunteer for standby to cover 1900 to 0700 which is also at double pay. I am after as much wonga as possible so I am volunteering quite a lot and have already missed my 5 year anniversary earlier this week.
My wife is already losing her sense of humour to some degree over the new setup but it does make me appreciate what I will be going back to next summer.
Totally agree with the explaining to friends / family (I have no kids yet and I am reliably informed that this it is VERY difficult to explain to them why you can't be around and skype only goes so far) but you can make it work.
Plus you get to beat the weekend rush somewhat for shopping, restaurants, cheeky hotel trips away with the wife (she doesn't work).
I was previously 10 years in office related jobs including several years of self-employment working from home so you never switched off - so now despite being away from home much more, my wife gets to see me a good deal more than she did as I can't bring work home (don't think the jet would fit on the drive anyway).
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most of the replies here seem to relate to what it is like to work for a decent airline. Problem is that being an airline pilot for a good airline will probably not be the first step in your flying career. Getting there is not going to be easy and will have major effects on your life. I'm not going to go into all the gory details of the jobs I used to springboard my way to an airline job but I will say this.
You are going to have to raise massive amounts of money that could have otherwise have funded a nice lifestyle away from flying. There is no certainty that you will obtain a flying job of any sort, ever. Most likely you will spend years working for small operators and flying instructing. These jobs tend to pay peanuts, have no job security, no paid time off and can be down right dangerous. They are for most, a means to an end. Maybe then you will get in with a regional airline which will be fairly poor pay but a bearable lifestyle if you are not debted up too much.
Of course these days you can do direct to a jet with no experience. This is a great option for those with a money tree. If you don't have a money tree then you will have to pay tens of thousands of pounds from God knows where to grease the palms of an unscrupulous airline who will give you some kind of horrible dock labour contract, dangling a carrott of a brighter future.
I find the lifestyle that the airline I work for is bearable but you need to understand that the short to medium term will offer little other than trouble and strife. Unless you have a very fat wallet, prepare for some suffering.
You are going to have to raise massive amounts of money that could have otherwise have funded a nice lifestyle away from flying. There is no certainty that you will obtain a flying job of any sort, ever. Most likely you will spend years working for small operators and flying instructing. These jobs tend to pay peanuts, have no job security, no paid time off and can be down right dangerous. They are for most, a means to an end. Maybe then you will get in with a regional airline which will be fairly poor pay but a bearable lifestyle if you are not debted up too much.
Of course these days you can do direct to a jet with no experience. This is a great option for those with a money tree. If you don't have a money tree then you will have to pay tens of thousands of pounds from God knows where to grease the palms of an unscrupulous airline who will give you some kind of horrible dock labour contract, dangling a carrott of a brighter future.
I find the lifestyle that the airline I work for is bearable but you need to understand that the short to medium term will offer little other than trouble and strife. Unless you have a very fat wallet, prepare for some suffering.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: london
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys, thanks for the input, its amazing what you dont get to hear from the flight schools.
I was originally due start an intergrated course soon, however i have now decided to get my PPL and see how the industry picks up/changes over the coming months. If I then feel that I still want to pursue this career I will go down the modular route.
My only concern is my age...I'm 32 at the moment so I estimate I will be approaching 35 when I get my licence. Do you think this will effect my chances of employment.
Thanks again.
I was originally due start an intergrated course soon, however i have now decided to get my PPL and see how the industry picks up/changes over the coming months. If I then feel that I still want to pursue this career I will go down the modular route.
My only concern is my age...I'm 32 at the moment so I estimate I will be approaching 35 when I get my licence. Do you think this will effect my chances of employment.
Thanks again.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: My
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firstly, Hollingworth, having known you for a while, I don't want to hear about your "cheeky" weekends away with the wife. 
I think that people always paint a bad picture of the pilot lifestyle. Personally I can't fault it. I knew exactly what I "bought" into when I was paying for my training. Yes, I have missed the first 2 of my daughters 3 birthdays and a few of my wife's too. but surely the rewards you can bring back are more than worth it. I get far more time off now than I did in any desk job that I have done and definitely have more time off than I did in the military. I'm less stressed, paid more and much happier in my current role than ever before. I think people who have never experienced a 9-5 job (and yes there are plenty that actually do conform to the Monday to Friday role - Engineer, accountant, secretary, Fast Jet RAF Pilot
, teacher etc.) don't appreciate how good the job is - hardly any of them pay as well or offer the lifestyle that an airline Pilots job can. And a 9-5 job is very boring, knowing exactly where you'll be every Monday to Friday for the rest of your life with the same people and the same Bullsh!t
I live 400 miles away from my wife and daughter, see them for about 2-3 days every 10-14 days. Yes that's not exactly good, but I can afford to have them in a nice house, buy them nice clothes and take them on good holidays. And I know that the current situation is only temporary.
The company I work for have a stable roster (cannot change is at all unless you agree - no pressure at all) also can earn a lot of overtime on your days off by either bidding or accepting crewing calls.
You make of it what you want, but it is a damn sight better than any desk job.
Hollingworth - PM me and let me know what you're up to over the winter
I think that people always paint a bad picture of the pilot lifestyle. Personally I can't fault it. I knew exactly what I "bought" into when I was paying for my training. Yes, I have missed the first 2 of my daughters 3 birthdays and a few of my wife's too. but surely the rewards you can bring back are more than worth it. I get far more time off now than I did in any desk job that I have done and definitely have more time off than I did in the military. I'm less stressed, paid more and much happier in my current role than ever before. I think people who have never experienced a 9-5 job (and yes there are plenty that actually do conform to the Monday to Friday role - Engineer, accountant, secretary, Fast Jet RAF Pilot
, teacher etc.) don't appreciate how good the job is - hardly any of them pay as well or offer the lifestyle that an airline Pilots job can. And a 9-5 job is very boring, knowing exactly where you'll be every Monday to Friday for the rest of your life with the same people and the same Bullsh!tI live 400 miles away from my wife and daughter, see them for about 2-3 days every 10-14 days. Yes that's not exactly good, but I can afford to have them in a nice house, buy them nice clothes and take them on good holidays. And I know that the current situation is only temporary.
The company I work for have a stable roster (cannot change is at all unless you agree - no pressure at all) also can earn a lot of overtime on your days off by either bidding or accepting crewing calls.
You make of it what you want, but it is a damn sight better than any desk job.
Hollingworth - PM me and let me know what you're up to over the winter
